Women in authority?

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Armistead

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We have a few debates going on. Many argue that women cannot lead in the church and subject to the authority of the man at home.

Now we have a woman running for President. I saw one poll that said a lot of christian women will vote for her.

So would you vote for a woman as president or do you feel the bible is against that also?

Let's make it tougher. Would you for for a christian woman with conservative values over an liberal atheist male, for president?

It's not a male only question..
 

sandman

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I would
I would never vote for Hillary ………. but a Christian conservative …..absolutely!

II Timothy 2 and I Corinthians 14 deal with specific issues, which I won’t get into at this time as it would derail this thread at the gate………..
 
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ShermanN

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The gender of a person is not an issue with me concerning leadership potential. Character, values, and vision are what I weigh, and in that order. Character - faithfulness, goodness, integrity, humility, etc., all are very important for a leader. In fact, in the past, I've not voted for one presidential hopeful because several of his statements betrayed to me a lack of humility, a pride that overshadowed all of the "correct" things that he said, even though he was a conservative Christian that had all of the same values as I do and even shared a similar vision for this country.

Whether the person is male or female, black, white, red, yellow, or brown does not weigh in my deliberations, at least consciously that is; and I'm not aware of any subconscious predispositions (racial or gender prejudices) that would influence my vote. But of course, I recognize that my heart is as wicked and deceptive as everyone else's.

Blessings,
Sherman

P.S. By the way, I've been thinking through Patriarchy (father rule of the family) and am increasingly coming to the conviction that even patriarchy is wicked, a curse upon humanity that the church needs to repent of. I believe that biblically, an egalitarian model for family (father & mother equal in authority) is much more healthy and actually what God originally intended for mankind. This is what was in the Garden of Eden and patriarchy, man-rule, was a curse that effects all of mankind negatively. And that's within the family, the most foundational social institution. If that's true for the family, how much more so for religious (church) and civil leadership!
 
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JacktheCatholic

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Women today hold many leadership positions. I see no problem with leading.

But women will never be Priest/Bishops/Deacons for they cannot do Priestly duties like the Eucharist.

Even if a woman has had hands laid on her by Bishops that can validy ordain , that woman cannot receive those charismatic gifts for she is NOT male (Viri). PERIOD


But in Protestant churches where there is only two Sacraments which do not require a Valid Priest then I say it does not matter.
 
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sandman

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The gender of a person is not an issue with me concerning leadership potential. Character, values, and vision are what I weigh, and in that order. Character - faithfulness, goodness, integrity, humility, etc., all are very important for a leader. In fact, in the past, I've not voted for one presidential hopeful because several of his statements betrayed to me a lack of humility, a pride that overshadowed all of the "correct" things that he said, even though he was a conservative Christian that had all of the same values as I do and even shared a similar vision for this country.

Whether the person is male or female, black, white, red, yellow, or brown does not weigh in my deliberations, at least consciously that is; and I'm not aware of any subconscious predispositions (racial or gender prejudices) that would influence my vote. But of course, I recognize that my heart is as wicked and deceptive as everyone else's.

Blessings,
Sherman

P.S. By the way, I've been thinking through Patriarchy (father rule of the family) and am increasingly coming to the conviction that even patriarchy is wicked, a curse upon humanity that the church needs to repent of. I believe that biblically, an egalitarian model for family (father & mother equal in authority) is much more healthy and actually what God originally intended for mankind. This is what was in the Garden of Eden and patriarchy, man-rule, was a curse that effects all of mankind negatively. And that's within the family, the most foundational social institution. If that's true for the family, how much more so for religious (church) and civil leadership!
I agree with much of what you say but as for the
egalitarian model for family (father & mother equal in authority)

I will respectfully disagree….and not for argument sake but because the Word of God dictates differently therefore it cannot be
much more healthy and actually what God originally intended for mankind.
 
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FLANDIDLYANDERS

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The trouble with the idea that women cannot lead a church but can a business or country is that this raises questions about our view of church and work.

Do we think that the people being "misled" under a woman in work are less important than the church? Do we think work is less spiritual than church? Or maybe we think there is a restrictive voodoo that applies to church and not to work?

I'm interested in hearing from people who believe what I would view to be an apparent contradiction.
 
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Shredhead

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I don't recall any stipulations for leadership in the world , mentioned in the Bible . However ,when it comes to the Church , His Word is clear . If we start to read His word through our cultural glasses , then we're headed for a fall .

nb: I'm not sledging women preachers , I just don't think they should be in authority over men , in the Church . Nor am I saying I believe men to be more " in touch " with God than women are .
 
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April Angel

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The trouble with the idea that women cannot lead a church but can a business or country is that this raises questions about our view of church and work.

Do we think that the people being "misled" under a woman in work are less important than the church? Do we think work is less spiritual than church? Or maybe we think there is a restrictive voodoo that applies to church and not to work?

I'm interested in hearing from people who believe what I would view to be an apparent contradiction.

Yes, it appears to be a contradiction but perhaps it is not.

Religion, as opposed to business or world leadership, is about our relationship with God. It is personal. Most Christians have a concept of God as being their 'Father'. It is, therefore, disturbing to them for women to be involved in their relationship with God. If God is masculine then it seems more fitting for a man (priest) to speak for Him and to Him on our behalf. Jesus is the mediator between God and man. Because Jesus was, himself, a man, the priest, who takes the place of Jesus as mediator, should also be a man. Also, they have the Bible to back them up. The Bible is against it, so it is OK for them to be against it too. Like most other controversial subjects (homosexuality, to name one), when you bring the Bible into it, there is no way round the argument.

Traditionally, there have been women rulers of countries: Queen Elizabeth I and the Queen of Sheba, amongst others. Traditionally, there have also been High Priestesses but not in the Jewish or Christian religions. That is why the concept of a woman priest is so disturbing to traditional Christians. Because it has never happened in the past.

In England, we were not really phased by Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher because we already had a Queen (Elizabeth II) and we were used to a history of women rulers (Queens). However, the prospect of an American woman president seems much more strange because it has never happened before. People are fearful of it because it is a new concept.
 
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Servant222

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The gender of a person is not an issue with me concerning leadership potential. Character, values, and vision are what I weigh, and in that order. Character - faithfulness, goodness, integrity, humility, etc., all are very important for a leader. In fact, in the past, I've not voted for one presidential hopeful because several of his statements betrayed to me a lack of humility, a pride that overshadowed all of the "correct" things that he said, even though he was a conservative Christian that had all of the same values as I do and even shared a similar vision for this country.

Whether the person is male or female, black, white, red, yellow, or brown does not weigh in my deliberations, at least consciously that is; and I'm not aware of any subconscious predispositions (racial or gender prejudices) that would influence my vote. But of course, I recognize that my heart is as wicked and deceptive as everyone else's.

Blessings,
Sherman

P.S. By the way, I've been thinking through Patriarchy (father rule of the family) and am increasingly coming to the conviction that even patriarchy is wicked, a curse upon humanity that the church needs to repent of. I believe that biblically, an egalitarian model for family (father & mother equal in authority) is much more healthy and actually what God originally intended for mankind. This is what was in the Garden of Eden and patriarchy, man-rule, was a curse that effects all of mankind negatively. And that's within the family, the most foundational social institution. If that's true for the family, how much more so for religious (church) and civil leadership!
Great post, as usual- although I would add that a person's faith is important to me too.

But I totally agree- whether a person is male or female is irrelevant- whether they can do the job of President in the best possible way is the number one issue.
 
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LJSGM

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I don't recall any stipulations for leadership in the world , mentioned in the Bible . However ,when it comes to the Church , His Word is clear . If we start to read His word through our cultural glasses , then we're headed for a fall .

nb: I'm not sledging women preachers , I just don't think they should be in authority over men , in the Church . Nor am I saying I believe men to be more " in touch " with God than women are .

His word is clear that women are not to be in places of "authority" in the church:doh:

People that believe that these TWO verses in the bible are undenyibly literal interpretations of God's law and commands also have to believe that:

1. Women are to remain silent under all and any circumstances while two or three (including the woman) are gathered together because we are under the "law" (a law that's not even in the old testament)

2. Women are really saved/redeemed through childbearing, not Christ. Only men are saved through christ.

in effect, I do not believe that these two verses have been discerned or interpretated correctly, even by the majority of well meaning christians. Then they have the gull to say that the bible CLEARLY says what they think it says.
 
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LJSGM

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1 Timothy 2


11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
 
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Soul Searcher

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1 Timothy 2


11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
I think you have severly misinterpreted what the bible says about salvation. While it is true that most times [if not all times] when it speaks of salvation it says man,.. but.. and this is a big but.. the word translated as man refers to mankind not just men.

Also your understanding of this would mean that it is not possible for my wife to be saved since she is barren and that is just pure nonsense.
 
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LJSGM

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I think you have severly misinterpreted what the bible says about salvation. While it is true that most times [if not all times] when it speaks of salvation it says man,.. but.. and this is a big but.. the word translated as man refers to mankind not just men.

Also your understanding of this would mean that it is not possible for my wife to be saved since she is barren and that is just pure nonsense.
You are actually helping my case even though you misunderstood me.

To believe that this verse was a clear literal command of God that women could not teach men, ect. would also require one to believe that women are saved through childbirth.
 
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LJSGM

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A better interpretation:

11The woman/wife(church) should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit The woman/wife(church) to teach or to have authority over the man(christ); she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam(Christ) was not the one deceived; it was the woman(church) who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But she will be redeemed/saved through the childbirth(of the son of God)—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
 
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