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Featured Women becoming pastors?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Ilovereading, Nov 27, 2016.

  1. CrystalDragon

    CrystalDragon Well-Known Member

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    But why would that be appropriate for any situation, and why not then say "I permit no woman to teach or have authority over a man in X instance"? And in any case, why? And it also says in another part of the Bible that women should only learn from their husbands—is that just in one instance too?
     
  2. Philip_B

    Philip_B Let all mortal flesh keep silence ... Supporter

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    Does that mean that wives should not listen to the Sunday Sermon?
     
  3. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    More women are single heads of households than are married.
    So....how would that apply for most women wanting to learn?
    Evidently the passage was not intended for all women.
    So, evidently it's not a universal truth.
    On that note, every important concept in scripture is covered
    by multiple authors in different words. Jesus usually rebuked
    his disiples or anybody imposing on women's value or lifestyle.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
  4. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    And they should get married if they want to learn anything as well.
    Too bad for the single ladies.
     
  5. Wolfe

    Wolfe Pack Leader

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  6. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Woman was specifically taken from Adam's

    side.

    And it has no importance anyway. More EGO guided mistakes.
    Male preachers love this stuff. They ignore that Jesus blessed
    the females FIRST that he had returned for the grave.

    Should they have waited for the good news from their husbands?
     
  7. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Understanding how God has designed things to work is not a negative. What is negative is not understanding the beauty of what God has designed and chirping against God without understanding.

    I pray that God helps you see His wisdom.
     
  8. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Yes, He did.
    After 20 years of male-hormone based bologna, I found this,
    the repeal of all gender rulings:

    Matthew 7:12 “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

    Luke 6:31 And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.

    Galatians 5:14For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

    James 2:8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.

    Mark 12:31 The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

    1 Peter 3:9 Do not repay evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary, bless, for to this you were called, that you may obtain a blessing.

    John 3:16
    “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

    James 1:19-20
    Know this, my beloved brothers: let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger; for the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God.

    Matthew 7:1-5
    “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

    John 15:13
    Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.

    Romans 13:8-10
    Owe no one anything, except to love each other,
    for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.

    Mark 9:35
    “If anyone would be first, he must be last of all and servant of all.”
     
  9. blessedintrovert

    blessedintrovert New Member

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    This is situation that is still going on.
     
  10. Kate30

    Kate30 Member

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    Ilovereading often in churches today woman have to take on many extra roles including the one you mentioned simply because there are not enough men or they simply are not suited for that role. I do agree with what Paul says. And I would never feel comfortable in taking on that role within the local church myself . I have seen men walk out of church gatherings when a woman takes on that role. Actually I found it quite exilerating when it did occurr. Especially apon hearing all the thee’s and thou’s that his thundering voice did croak whilst expounding that the spirit of Jezebel was apon the place before he left.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  11. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Galatians 3:28
    (28) There is no Jew or Greek. There is no slave or free person. There is no male or female. Because you belong to Christ Jesus, you are all one.
    Note Paul wrote this in the present tense, "you are all one." Not future tense, "You will all be one in in the sweet by and by."
     
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  12. geiroffenberg

    geiroffenberg Well-Known Member

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    because its not in the bible?
    Then again is "senior pastor" in the bible?
    Are there anyone, man OR woman, in the new testament that was even ever called a pastor?
    pls name one

    I think if we do the research, we will find that there is no such thing as "a pastor", we only have ef 4 where he talks about that which he calls "pastor and teacher". The greek text does not allow us to seperata these into two different ministries. Actually, if you look atht eh english translations, they dont allow us it either. God put in the church some to be....apostles...some to be....prophets....some to be ....evanglists....and finally....some to be....pastors and teachers.
    That "and" there, kai in greek, is nto a seperating word, it means "that which is pastor and teacher" that whidh are pastoring trough the teaching AKA a true teacher, that doesnt just teach anything but that which is guiding for a spiritual life.
    so a pastor is troughout the rest of the new testament is only called a teacher. Not one single place is anyone ever called a pastor. We have apostle,s we haveprophets we have evanglists....and we have teachers. Noone is called a pastor. That word does only appear as a ministry in ef 4 and its pastoral teacher"
    SO: There are no such thing as a pastor, just those leaders that guide trough teaching as a pastoral teacher... and there are woman in that role, priskilla being one.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  13. MarkRohfrietsch

    MarkRohfrietsch Unapologetic Apologist Supporter

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    It is in the Bible, and the Bible does speak against it; therefore my synod, following the Bible does also.
     
  14. geiroffenberg

    geiroffenberg Well-Known Member

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    no its not, i just told you, if u disagree and want to dispute it, u need to throw a argument at m, or its meaningless.
     
  15. MarkRohfrietsch

    MarkRohfrietsch Unapologetic Apologist Supporter

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    Scripture interprets Scripture, and the context of Scripture; the parts were we are admonished that women should remain silent, and that they should not usurp authority over men clearly exclude them for the office of the Pastoral Ministry. These words are God's words, and remain efficacious despite trying to use various interpretive criticisms to feebly attempt to discount their validity.

    God's Word is good enough for me; I we question these phrases and their plain meaning, then we must also question the rest of Scripture, and next thing we are all a bunch of secular humanists (most of north america has done just that.

    Sorry, I believe that you missed the whole point of God's word being eternal and unchanging.
     
  16. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Several years ago the senior pastor of a major denominational church in Louisville, KY retired. The church had a few associate pastors, they voted to elect a female associate pastor the church senior pastor.
    The denominational HQ somewhere south of Louisville told the church they would be ejected from the denomination if they proceeded. I'm not sure how that turned out. I think the church chose to remain in the denomination.
    Reading some of the posts here I see the usual misinterpretation of 1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp [αὐθεντέω] authority over the man, but to be in silence.
    Here is the defintion of the word translated "usurp."

    αὐθεντέω authenteō
    From a compound of G846 and ἕντης hentēs (obsolete; a worker); to act of oneself, that is, (figuratively) dominate: - usurp authority over.
    It does not mean to simply have authority over a man but to usurp, i.e. take authority for ones self.
     
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  17. geiroffenberg

    geiroffenberg Well-Known Member

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    Actually the holy spirit interprets scripture, not your intepretatino of one passage interprets another. And in here lies the problem, you think you know what one passage means and say, therefor you can judge aother passages based on it, making a whole lot of mess all the while thinking you have god and his word on your side.

    Pauls friend priskilla was indeeda woman and a mentor for influential ministries such as apollos. Why didnt paul stop that?
    Paul admonishes Junias, not only paul but he says she is great among all the apostles. How could she be a great apostle, if she was commanded to shut up in churches??

    So to the two verses you mention.

    You think 1 cor 14:34 is a commandment to keep woman silent in church.
    That is OBVIOUSLY a wrong interpretation as the whole chapter, in fact the whole passage all the way from chapter 11 are instructions of what to do when we come together and from the beginning WOMAN are instructed to prophecy and pray, and speak in tongues and take part in all the oral gifts of the spirit, that is the WHOLE POINT of the passage and the conclusion is "hinder not" anyone, but use wisdom.

    AS appear ant from the greek, and even the english kjv, paul is saying "with you" woman shall not speak, but stay silent, because the law says so". Thats not a commandment to the corintians, he is scolding them for having this practice.

    Now when were we ever instructed to follow any law of moses or any gentile law of discrimination against woman? Pauls reaction to this is "WHAT?" (literally this is how kjv says it, look it up)
    "Did the world come only to you", corintians, so they were the only one that practices this nonsense. NO he says to let everyone speak and prophecy and just let it be done in order.

    Now to your other problem,
    "1Ti_2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

    Rightly you quoted it, it doesnt say only to teach but to usurp authority.....that would be a total contradiction to waht he says IN THE SAME PASSAGE, about godly woman :
    Tit 2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

    So how can he forbid woman to teach and at the same order them to teach?

    But he says here they are not to usurp authority, not to rise up and take authority over men like some controlling jezebel.... thats fair enough, theres been many cults created that way, like 7th day adventists that has such a woman controlling them trough their teaching. Paul forbids this and nips it at the root before it grows into something awful.

    But, you who claim woman are to be silent and not teach, not even open their mouth, HOW can and that the bible supports this??? how about the prophetesses both in the old and new that led israel and served the church, the woman evanglists, and the once i already mentioned like priskilla and junias, HOW were they suppose to minister to the church of they were commanded to remain silent?? thats scripture intepreting scripture, it doesnt confirm your view, it mocks it.

    Honestly, the way you have treated the bible, contradicted it in the name of a clear misunderstanding of two plain verses, id say you have done jsut that


    Now finally, you didnt even understand my first point anyway, the one you replied to , which is questioning whether such a thing as a pastor EVEN IS BIBLICAL, becaue tehre is no such thing in the bible.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2019
  18. MarkRohfrietsch

    MarkRohfrietsch Unapologetic Apologist Supporter

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    Since "the prophets spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit" using Scripture to interpret Scripture is the Holy Spirit intrepreting it.

    Using historic critical, warm and fuzzy, politically correct opinion that is strongly influenced by secular humanism is not using the Holy Spirit.

    Female leadership is a very recent innovation in Christianity. I guess God the Holy Spirit changed in the last 100 years... yet according to Scripture, God's word is eternal. Oops, used Scripture again.

    Regarding Pastors, Bishops, Elders, Deacons, Rabbis etc. Regardless of what they are called, the Bible is clear that the leaders of the Churches were/are male. God's choice is good enough for me.
     
  19. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    Not that recent.
    There were female deacons in the early church, not to mention deaconesses.
    It seems that Lydia was a founder member of the church at Philippi, Acts of the Apostles 16:15.
    In 614 AD the Pope appointed St Hilda to be an abbess in one abbey, and she later founded another. 5 men from her abbey later became bishops.
    Catherine of Sienna was asked by the pope to teach cardinals, and he, himself, asked her for advice. Maybe she didn't lead a congregation, but she was clearly a woman of influence.
    The order "Sisters of charity" was founded by a woman; St Elizabeth.
    The order "Poor Clares" was founded by a woman; St Clare of Assisi.
    Gladys Aylward co-founded a Christian mission, and later, a church.
    Many, many women have gone onto the mission field and started schools, Bible classes, hospitals, missions etc.

    And God's nature does not change, but he sometimes changes the way in which he works - eg, we no longer need animal sacrifices for forgiveness, God does not "live" in a temple, or holy of holies etc.

    There were women in leadership, joint leadership or who were included and commanded for their work for the Gospel.
    Just because it was a male dominated society then, does not mean that this is how it has to be now. Scripture also says, for example, that it is wrong for a man to divorce his wife. Since it does not mention a woman divorcing her husband, does that mean it is allowed today? No; Scripture does not mention it because in those days it was impossible for a woman to divorce her husband - they had no rights. But if I were to walk out on my husband and say "it's fine to divorce him; Scripture doesn't say that I can't", I'm sure that many would rush to condemn such an action.

    God is showing his choice today by calling women to preach and/or be ordained. This IS what he is doing today, in many countries and denominations - you seem not to accept it.
     
  20. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    That something is happening does not mean that its God showing his allowance or choice.
     
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