Women Are Still the Most Discriminated Against

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LJSGM

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Col 2:19And 2532 not 3756 holding 2902 the Head 2776, from 1537 which 3739 all 3956 the body 4983 by 1223 joints 860 and 2532 bands 4886 having nourishment ministered 2023 , and 2532 knit together 4822 , increaseth 837 with the increase 838 of God 2316.


The head was believed to be the "source" of life, if you cut off the head you cut off the source. It also provided nurishment and held the body together, such as the husband is described to be the provider/protector of the wife. It does not insinuate for the husband that he is to rule over or control his wife and that she is like a child to him.
 
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johnd

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Could you describe for me what the spirit is? What it does and where it goes?

Before the cross:

Luke 16:19-31
19 Now there was a certain rich man, and he was clothed in purple and fine linen, faring sumptuously every day:
20 and a certain beggar named Lazarus was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 and desiring to be fed with the crumbs that fell from the rich man’s table; yea, even the dogs come and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and that he was carried away by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: and the rich man also died, and was buried.
23 And in Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am in anguish in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and Lazarus in like manner evil things: but now here he is comforted and thou art in anguish.
26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, that they that would pass from hence to you may not be able, and that none may cross over from thence to us.
27 And he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house;
28 for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 But Abraham saith, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one go to them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, if one rise from the dead.

The day of the crucifixion...

Ephesians 4:8-10
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended on high, he led captivity captive, And gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now this, He ascended, what is it but that he also descended into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.)

fulfilling the promise in Luke 23:43.

After the cross the spirit of the spirits of believers...

2 Corinthians 5:6-8
6 Being therefore always of good courage, and knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord
7 (for we walk by faith, not by sight);
8 we are of good courage, I say, and are willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be at home with the Lord.

The Lord is physically raised in heaven (Hebrews 12:2). Believers go to be with him in spirit (absent from the body present with the Lord).

waiting the resurrection of the believer's (1 Corinthians 15:35-58, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18),

The condemned go to the same place they have all along awaiting the resurrection unto judgment (Revelation 20:11-15).
 
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LJSGM

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Before the cross:

Luke 16:19-31
19 Now there was a certain rich man, and he was clothed in purple and fine linen, faring sumptuously every day:
20 and a certain beggar named Lazarus was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 and desiring to be fed with the crumbs that fell from the rich man’s table; yea, even the dogs come and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and that he was carried away by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: and the rich man also died, and was buried.
23 And in Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am in anguish in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and Lazarus in like manner evil things: but now here he is comforted and thou art in anguish.
26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, that they that would pass from hence to you may not be able, and that none may cross over from thence to us.
27 And he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house;
28 for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 But Abraham saith, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one go to them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, if one rise from the dead.

Could have just said hades if that's what you think.


But seriously, what is the spirit and what does it do?

I was hoping for something more interesting.
 
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johnd

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what is the spirit and what does it do?

Well, aside from the obvious (produces life in the body), it is the creation of God the seat of our individuality. Demon possession shows that a body is not that seat in that it can be manipulated or controlled by whatever spirit is within.

John 3:6
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The purpose of it all? Is that what you are asking?

To resolve sin in eternity.

God created the spirit realm and it's inhabitants (the angels) some of whom fell. Revelation 12 may refer to them it may refer to the number of Christians killed in the persecution in Revelation 13:5-10.

God created a scenario of the physical to resolve the issue in the spiritual realm because the physical can die the spiritual cannot die. When one sins in their eternal state, their judgment is irrevocable. In the physical, through resurrection, one can be redeemed if they believed in life that Jesus is the Christ the sacrifice for human sin.
 
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Nadiine

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Well, aside from the obvious (produces life in the body), it is the creation of God the seat of our individuality. Demon possession shows that a body is not that seat in that it can be manipulated or controlled by whatever spirit is within.

John 3:6
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The purpose of it all? Is that what you are asking?

To resolve sin in eternity.

God created the spirit realm and it's inhabitants (the angels) some of whom fell. Revelation 12 may refer to them it may refer to the number of Christians killed in the persecution in Revelation 13:5-10.

God created a scenario of the physical to resolve the issue in the spiritual realm because the physical can die the spiritual cannot die. When one sins in their eternal state, their judgment is irrevocable. In the physical, through resurrection, one can be redeemed if they believed in life that Jesus is the Christ the sacrifice for human sin.
I never heard it put quite like that.......
that's really interesting - lots to think on there.

thanx
 
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Archivist

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amazing.

I'll just quote scripture again

1 Corinthians 11:3
Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ,
and the head of the woman is man,
and the head of Christ is God.

Please note again that "head" in Greek is the same all 3 times.

John 14:28
" You heard that I said to you, 'I go away, and I will come to you
' If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father,
for the Father is greater than I.

Greater in this verse is speaking of positional order, not in essence
or nature of being. The same principle is carried in headship of
having an order of authority, not being better than.
Again it's about order.

If it's so horrible to have order, then Jesus should have felt
angry that He had to be submissive and the father was head.

This is also why Satan fell - he didn't want to be under God,
but equal (and over)....

And as I said before, Nadine, you are entitled to your INTERPRETATION, just as those of us who disagree are entitled to our INTERPRETATION.
 
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Tissue

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And that is your interpretation of Archivist's post. Mine is this: He is pointing out the fundamental reason why this discussion is polarized. Your side interprets the verse in one direction that provides one conclusion, and our side interprets the verse in a different direction that provides a different conclusion.
 
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Nadiine

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And as I said before, Nadine, you are entitled to your INTERPRETATION, just as those of us who disagree are entitled to our INTERPRETATION.
Just like someone can interpret that Christ's death wasn't literal,
or His ascention or first coming...

Just pawning this off on "interpretation" only removes all foundation
for truth given in this religion by scripture.

"I interpret that I Universalism is true, therefore, I don't have to
repent & believe"... hey, we all interpret our own way.
"I interpret that I can fornicate since the NT term is loose, so
I'll shack up & sleep w/ whoever I want in God's name" hey, we all
interpret our own way.

If that's your take on scripture, then we have nothing to discuss
whatsoever AND you shouldn't bother witnessing Christ either
becuz "that's just your interpretation" of your religion.
 
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Nadiine

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And that is your interpretation of Archivist's post. Mine is this: He is pointing out the fundamental reason why this discussion is polarized. Your side interprets the verse in one direction that provides one conclusion, and our side interprets the verse in a different direction that provides a different conclusion.
No, he's negating that we can find ANY truth in Christianity
since truth is subjective to his personal interpretations.
Ie. there isn't truth, only what you BELIEVE truth to be -
truth isn't knowable for sure by anyone.

The Bible tells us why people "interpret" wrongly when it's so plain.
Why the pharisees never understood Jesus' teachings in any
depth.

When professing Christian's beliefs follow the majority of the
world's ways & worldviews, then they should do some
serious questioning.
 
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Tissue

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Just like someone can interpret that Christ's death wasn't literal,
or His ascention or first coming...

Christ's literal death is fundamental to Christianity in a way that the literal-ness of male rulership is not.

Just pawning this off on "interpretation" only removes all foundation
for truth given in this religion by scripture.

Yes, it does destroy foundationalism, but unfortunately, foundationalism has been dead for years.

"I interpret that I Universalism is true, therefore, I don't have to
repent & believe"... hey, we all interpret our own way.
"I interpret that I can fornicate since the NT term is loose, so
I'll shack up & sleep w/ whoever I want in God's name" hey, we all
interpret our own way.

If that's your take on scripture, then we have nothing to discuss
whatsoever AND you shouldn't bother witnessing Christ either
becuz "that's just your interpretation" of your religion.

Now you're just being silly. But, this is not unexpected. Fundamentalists don't have any idea what to do with anti-foundationalism when they find it, so they usually polarize the incident into something extreme, which is far easier to mock and discard. Problem is, that extreme caricature does not properly represent the argument.

I recommend you read into some postmodernism.
 
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Tissue

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No, he's negating that we can find ANY truth in Christianity
since truth is subjective to his personal interpretations.
Ie. there isn't truth, only what you BELIEVE truth to be -
truth isn't knowable for sure by anyone.

That's not what he said at all. Of course there is truth. An individual's belief does not define truth. He is arguing, instead, that we each interpret the text differently, and that leads us to different conclusions. We could both be wrong. We certainly aren't both right.

Might I recommend that, when confronted with the possibility you are wrong, that you do not assume your opponent doesn't believe in truth? That's a pretty poor defense.

The Bible tells us why people "interpret" wrongly when it's so plain.
Why the pharisees never understood Jesus' teachings in any
depth.

Oh?

When professing Christian's beliefs follow the majority of the
world's ways & worldviews, then they should do some
serious questioning.

On the contrary; when an individual's beliefs do not seem to match up with the truth discovered by the 'secular' world (as in the case with Galileo and the church), that individual should do the questioning.
 
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johnd

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And that is your interpretation of Archivist's post. Mine is this: He is pointing out the fundamental reason why this discussion is polarized. Your side interprets the verse in one direction that provides one conclusion, and our side interprets the verse in a different direction that provides a different conclusion.

Means nothing.

You and he are essentially saying "huh uh!" as if that's good enough. Nadiine quoted scripture. Read the text it speaks for itself. To simply say you don't interpret it that way or but what it says proves nothing other than you can deny facts.

So?

At least show how the texts don't mean what they say or say what they mean.
 
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Tissue

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Means nothing.

You and he are essentially saying "huh uh!" as if that's good enough. Nadiine quoted scripture. Read the text it speaks for itself. To simply say you don't interpret it that way or but what it says proves nothing other than you can deny facts.

False. Approach the text with different assumptions, and you reach a different conclusion. That's why we interpret it differently.

At least show how the texts don't mean what they say or say what they mean.

Problem is, that seems to be impossible. You aren't convincing us in the least with your arguments, because we have different assumptions. And ew aren't convincing you, because you have different assumptions.

Jettison foundationalism.
 
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Tissue

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Try to understand where I'm coming from. That very approach (that it's entirely clear what the text is saying), I know to be wrong in every single instance. I know, due to my education in philosophy and linguistics, that it is impossible to get behind words and reach their intended meaning with perfect certainty. And individual must always interpret; one always reads through the lens of their experience. While it is possible to grind this lens down quite thin, it is entirely impossible to remove it.

Now, you certainly don't think that this is true, but I know it to be true. This is where I'm coming from. That's why we disagree. You think the text is one way, and I think it is another, and it seems thoroughly unlikely that I will persuade you to believe my position, and it seems thoroughly unlikely that you will persuade me to believe your position. We are truly at an impasse.

Nevertheless, we can converse. If we see this less as a military exploit and more as a conversation, we might make progress. But it will take an open mind on both sides, and a proper understanding of the discussion.
 
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