Women Are Still the Most Discriminated Against

[UnderHisWings1979]

I really appreciate the men in this thread that have said they have no problem with housework cuz doing the laundry, the dishes, vacuuming and all other chores are not a sin for a man to do. Think about it this way, when you read Leviticus and all the cleanliness they were doing, do you think only women did all that washing and cleaning? I don't think so. I think they ALL were involved in keeping things clean.

And why I think men were involved in the cleaning also is because water is very heavy. 1 gallon of water weighs 8 lbs. Also, a lot of housework is very physical and exhausting. Some big cleaning jobs are better suited to a man especially if the woman is not very physically strong even in her younger years.

My two cents for now.

I absolutely agree with you. This is exactly my point, however, about the uniqueness of men and women.

 

[Nadiine]

Originally Posted by one11

I really appreciate the men in this thread that have said they have no problem with housework cuz doing the laundry, the dishes, vacuuming and all other chores are not a sin for a man to do. Think about it this way, when you read Leviticus and all the cleanliness they were doing, do you think only women did all that washing and cleaning? I don't think so. I think they ALL were involved in keeping things clean.

And why I think men were involved in the cleaning also is because water is very heavy. 1 gallon of water weighs 8 lbs.​

I dunno, becuz we have stories about women at the well -

I should check into that, from what I remember, it's women
who fetched the water hmmm
​

 

[Nadiine]

about housework . .

I don't have a job outside the house & I know my husband works
very hard.

I don't ask him to do any of the housework unless I'm unable to do it
physically. I figure that he works all day, he doesn't need to come home
& do my work too.
We have an [unspoken] agreement that I do all the housework & I even
cut the grass alot (he prefers to cut it sometimes tho w/ his riding
lawnmower lol), he does only the really heavy stuff which is hardly anything
& works outside the home & it works great for us.

I have a real big problem with women who nag & yap about men not
helping them w/ housework, but the man is doing the brunt of the work in other areas - or he's having a very stressful time in his life... that's when you
do his work to help him out.
I don't think things have to be etched in stone "cutting the grass/
taking the garbage out is HIS JOB, I won't do it to help him if he's having a hard time"
I think women have this chip on their shoulder that men should do
housework & "help" even when they're very busy working at other
important things. It's one of my pet peeves watching women demand
their husbands to help.

But if she works outside the home the same amount of hours he does,
then I don't see where some help from him is too much to ask;
esp. if they have kids.

 

[Nadiine]

I am sorry to disagree with you, but the fact is you are wrong. Mainline feminism today is not what you think it is. I know this because I am in the middle of it. My wife works at a women's college that is at the forefront of mainline modern feminism, and it is very much about man-bashing. I also attend school at another very liberal university that is on the forefront of feminist thinking, and again, it is not just about women's rights. If that is not where you fit in, then that is fine, but it does not change the fact that feminism has been hi-jacked by extremists.

Rush Limbaugh calls them feminazi's .

Again, liberalism at it's best.

lots of things have been hijacked in this country - including Christianity

 

[one11]

I dunno, becuz we have stories about women at the well -

I should check into that, from what I remember, it's women
who fetched the water hmmm
[/indent]

They didn't have wells in Leviticus. They most likely only had rivers. Read all those cleanliness laws and the constant washing of everything which was to prevent germs and disease. I believe everyone was involved with that process of cleaning.

It's also known archaeologically that during the time that Yeshua walked the earth and the areas he was in were one of the first in ancient history to have irrigation, dams, underground water systems and wells.

They didn't have those in the days the Hebrews were wondering around in the wilderness.

Now, women at the well, that's a bucket. Recently I had to have my washing machine cleaned. I had put in a blanket and it got soaked with water before it could be washed. So, that wet cloth (not a heavy cloth when NOT wet) had to be taken out of the washing machine. It weighed a ton because it was wet! Now it's possible several women could have lifted cloths out of the rivers, etc, but no where does it state that only women did all that cleaning of all the clothes and dishes (vessels) in Leviticus.

I mean God even provided the food, manna. So why wouldn't the men have been involved in all that cleaning, too?

Also, Paul was a tent maker, so one needs to know how to clean large and heavy cloths, as well as preserve them before constructing them into a tent. You think it would have been a sin for Paul to be washing cloths of fabric in a river?

 

[CreedIsChrist]

So what do you have to offer women who do not become mothers? What of those women who are given the gift of celibacy? What place do you offer women whose children are grown? My children all left home this past year so my parenting role has been diminished considerably - does that kick me out of the "most honorable position"?

Of course not, you are probably a grandmother now, or soon to be. You have already fulfilled your position.

As far as women who do not become mothers the most honorable thing for them is to become a celibate devout. In fact that is considered almost more honorable than motherhood. A woman who rejects both of these , however, is not living honorably.

The key word here is "usurp" - taking that which one does not have a legal right to. I have no desire to have my husband's authority. That does not mean I have no authority! Look up Abigail and her actions when her husband made a terrible decision. She did not sit back and let things unfold. She sprang to action, gave orders, took charge and saved the lives of her family and household. I think it's very clear that the Bible teaches mutual submission between husband and wife.

Yes but women and men have different authority. Because Eve first sinned, man was was put over her in authority. Many of the early theologians say that this is because of the womens higher propensity to deceive and be deceived, and thus man was put over woman in God given authority(and should be)

Please, where in the Bible are women instructed to be humble and meek? Moreover, your I Timothy passage does not apply to husbands ans wives, the passage is discussing church structure

A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness - 1 Timothy 2:11



Women, for their part, should display their beauty by dressing modestly and decently in appropriate clothes, not by braiding their hair or by wearing gold, pearls, or expensive clothes, - 1 Timothy 2:9


A woman must learn quietly and submissively.Moreover, I do not allow a woman to teach or to usurp authority over a man. Instead, she is to be quiet. - 1 Timothy 2:11

to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be dishonored - Titus 2:5


Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord - Ephesians 5:22(meaning respect your husbands as you do the Lord, this would require great meekness and humbleness, a woman who shames her husband shames God)

In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives - 1 Peter 3:1 (this here suggests godly meekness)

You husbands in the same way, live with your wives in an understanding way, as with someone weaker, since she is a woman; and show her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered - 1 Peter 3:7

The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says - 1 Corinthians 14:34



I also must remind you. That since second wave feminism came into play, around 1960, abortion and no-fault divorce was legalized 10 years after and the divorce rate rose 30% in a little over a decade as was children born out of wedlock.

I think women have this chip on their shoulder that men should do
housework & "help" even when they're very busy working at other
important things. It's one of my pet peeves watching women demand
their husbands to help.

I agree, that attitude is ruining alot of marriages too. Men have so much to worry about like finances, job and boss, family structure, the worry of losing their job, feeding the family and bills, etc. A woman who nags her husband when he comes home obviously has a problem with self-centeredness and disobediance. A God fearing woman would never do such a thing. A husband wants to come home to the support of his wife and his children

 

[Nadiine]

They didn't have wells in Leviticus. They most likely only had rivers. Read all those cleanliness laws and the constant washing of everything which was to prevent germs and disease. I believe everyone was involved with that process of cleaning.

It's also known archaeologically that during the time that Yeshua walked the earth and the areas he was in were one of the first in ancient history to have irrigation, dams, underground water systems and wells.

They didn't have those in the days the Hebrews were wondering around in the wilderness.

Now, women at the well, that's a bucket. Recently I had to have my washing machine cleaned. I had put in a blanket and it got soaked with water before it could be washed. So, that wet cloth (not a heavy cloth when NOT wet) had to be taken out of the washing machine. It weighed a ton because it was wet! Now it's possible several women could have lifted cloths out of the rivers, etc, but no where does it state that only women did all that cleaning of all the clothes and dishes (vessels) in Leviticus.

I mean God even provided the food, manna. So why wouldn't the men have been involved in all that cleaning, too?

Also, Paul was a tent maker, so one needs to know how to clean large and heavy cloths, as well as preserve them before constructing them into a tent. You think it would have been a sin for Paul to be washing cloths of fabric in a river?

a sin? :o Um. no.

How does it turn to sin for either sex to do work that must get done?
(outside Sabbath law of course).

I was simply noting that women were at the wells commonly in the NT.
So women were hauling water & I've seen LOTS of pictures of women
with vases of water/pots that they carried on their heads.

Just imagery I've seen.

& since I do lift some weights & I lift pet food bags (40-50lbs), I
can pretty much handle everything myself. I keep the attitude
that it's great exercise for me, then it becomes less of a chore
& more of a quest.

 

[ERice2nd]

a sin? :o Um. no.

How does it turn to sin for either sex to do work that must get done?
(outside Sabbath law of course).

I was simply noting that women were at the wells commonly in the NT.
So women were hauling water & I've seen LOTS of pictures of women
with vases of water/pots that they carried on their heads.

Just imagery I've seen.

& since I do lift some weights & I lift pet food bags (40-50lbs), I
can pretty much handle everything myself. I keep the attitude
that it's great exercise for me, then it becomes less of a chore
& more of a quest.

I like your attitude on this Nadiine

You seem to have an understanding of how it all should work. The man works outside the home and the woman works inside the home (in a lot of cases), but also understand that it doesnt have to be this way, nor do you seem to feel that you are subjugated.

with this setup then its a team effort to take care of the household, each of you are providing for the other in your own way .

You also said in another post, (essentially) that if they share in making an income then they should share in the housework. I fully agree with this too. and if one of them does not have a Job then they should do a bit extra around the house to support the other, like you have said. a man is not to be lazy, and neither is a woman. and they both are to contribute to the household and the raising of Kids should they have any.

 

[one11]

a sin? :o Um. no.

How does it turn to sin for either sex to do work that must get done?
(outside Sabbath law of course).

I was simply noting that women were at the wells commonly in the NT.
So women were hauling water & I've seen LOTS of pictures of women
with vases of water/pots that they carried on their heads.

Just imagery I've seen.

& since I do lift some weights & I lift pet food bags (40-50lbs), I
can pretty much handle everything myself. I keep the attitude
that it's great exercise for me, then it becomes less of a chore
& more of a quest.

Okay, just wanted to know where you were coming from.

Also not every woman lifts weights. I don't know a single one who does cuz they are far too busy with a full work schedule and full house schedule and cooking, and tons of other stuff, if not school thrown in there too. Not to mention that some women are born with a bad back, it's called scoliosis. Some men are born with that, too.

Sharing the household cleaning duties is not a sin for a man to do, nor are women who work a full time job too "nagging" about equal household cleaning/cooking responsibilities. And for young couples, it may not be the beer in the recliner anymore; it's the video games and sometimes laziness or brought up that housework or cooking is for sissies or woman only, which is ridiculous.

 

[Nadiine]

I like your attitude on this Nadiine

You seem to have an understanding of how it all should work. The man works outside the home and the woman works inside the home (in a lot of cases), but also understand that it doesnt have to be this way, nor do you seem to feel that you are subjugated.

with this setup then its a team effort to take care of the household, each of you are providing for the other in your own way .

You also said in another post, (essentially) that if they share in making an income then they should share in the housework. I fully agree with this too. and if one of them does not have a Job then they should do a bit extra around the house to support the other, like you have said. a man is not to be lazy, and neither is a woman. and they both are to contribute to the household and the raising of Kids should they have any.

YES! =0)

Our household does work like that, and it's just an understanding we have.

I have had some days where I'm really sore or not feeling capable and just cannot lift a pet bag or a 40# bucket of cat litter out of the car and I do ask him when he gets a chance if he could get that for me (& he gets right up to do it - the last thing he wants is me not to clean that litter box )

If you both keep a good attitude about your chores, it isn't so grueling.
For me, I transform labor into "exercise" and I get alot more done
thinking of that & doing extra.

One other thing that sparked a thought about this, I was watching that movie
"the Break Up" w/ Jennifer Aniston - they had a fight becuz he was so
lazy & wouldn't help her (they both worked)...
long story short, after their company left from dinner, she asked
him to help her clean up the kitchen.
Well, he was pooped & didn't want to.
She replied that "she liked having the dishes done before she goes
to bed".
K, that's HER preference & if SHE likes it that way, why is he forced
to comply w/ her preference when the dishes could of been put
into a sink & soaked overnite?
If she had to have them done that nite, then let her do it herself.

I dunno, that part of the movie bugged me lol If yer a clean freak,
then do the stuff yourself on your own demand & preference
instead of putting that on everybody else around you who
just don't CARE that much.

 

[one11]

YES! =0)

Our household does work like that, and it's just an understanding we have.

I have had some days where I'm really sore or not feeling capable and just cannot lift a pet bag or a 40# bucket of cat litter out of the car and I do ask him when he gets a chance if he could get that for me (& he gets right up to do it - the last thing he wants is me not to clean that litter box )

If you both keep a good attitude about your chores, it isn't so grueling.
For me, I transform labor into "exercise" and I get alot more done
thinking of that & doing extra.

One other thing that sparked a thought about this, I was watching that movie
"the Break Up" w/ Jennifer Aniston - they had a fight becuz he was so
lazy & wouldn't help her (they both worked)...
long story short, after their company left from dinner, she asked
him to help her clean up the kitchen.
Well, he was pooped & didn't want to.
She replied that "she liked having the dishes done before she goes
to bed".
K, that's HER preference & if SHE likes it that way, why is he forced
to comply w/ her preference when the dishes could of been put
into a sink & soaked overnite?
If she had to have them done that nite, then let her do it herself.

I dunno, that part of the movie bugged me lol If yer a clean freak,
then do the stuff yourself on your own demand & preference
instead of putting that on everybody else around you who
just don't CARE that much.

Yup, you're right on that. Neat freaks are out of balance, too. I've had energy to do something in my life time that pleased me as far as cleanliness and I didn't care if someone was knocked out and went to bed.

It's all about balance and not burdening each other. It's about doing chores and work because you love the person, your family and yourself. And we do extra work when we have the energy to do it because we like it that way.

Finding a balance is a good thing! But living in utter chaos and dirt is the other extreme that can happen when both couples are WORKING and the house chores remain one-sided.

My sister was so lazy about housework period. She was so lazy that she didn't even know how to fill a salt shaker. She'd say, Gee, there is no salt in the salt shaker, and I'd say "yeah, unfortunately the salt fairy forgot to fill it, maybe you can help her out."

 

[Nadiine]

Yup, you're right on that. Neat freaks are out of balance, too. I've had energy to do something in my life time that pleased me as far as cleanliness and I didn't care if someone was knocked out and went to bed.

It's all about balance and not burdening each other. It's about doing chores and work because you love the person, your family and yourself. And we do extra work when we have the energy to do it because we like it that way.

Finding a balance is a good thing! But living in utter chaos and dirt is the other extreme that can happen when both couples are WORKING and the house chores remain one-sided.

My sister was so lazy about housework period. She was so lazy that she didn't even know how to fill a salt shaker. She'd say, Gee, there is no salt in the salt shaker, and I'd say "yeah, unfortunately the salt fairy forgot to fill it, maybe you can help her out."

the salt fairy! LOL

Gosh, I do get lazy at times & I don't care about it being spotless
24/7. But it can be kept in decent shape if you keep up with it.
I agree w/ the balance for sure.

If I lived w/ somebody who was out of balance, I'd most definitely
opt for the clean freak than the pig pen.

 

[LJSGM]

I am sorry to disagree with you, but the fact is you are wrong. Mainline feminism today is not what you think it is. I know this because I am in the middle of it. My wife works at a women's college that is at the forefront of mainline modern feminism, and it is very much about man-bashing. I also attend school at another very liberal university that is on the forefront of feminist thinking, and again, it is not just about women's rights. If that is not where you fit in, then that is fine, but it does not change the fact that feminism has been hi-jacked by extremists.

I can understand them to an extent.

Men are suppose to be women's protecters, in your view perhaps, yet, the opposite has happen.

A neighbor's wife was beaten, women were used, abused, raped, their freedom and humanity taken from them sometimes in the most brutal ways, and who was their advocate in their time of need?

Was it men that advocated for women's rights?

Was it men that protected them and kept them safe?

No, in fact, during the suffrage for women's rights, women were constantly battling against mostly men.

So, over time, men started to be seen as the enemy.

It is much similar to reverse racism.

One understands why they feel the way they do about those that oppress them, because they always have the same skin color.

But, it is not men, nor is it women, it is satan with his deceptions and spirits of power and control that bring us down

 

[LJSGM]

the salt fairy! LOL

Gosh, I do get lazy at times & I don't care about it being spotless
24/7. But it can be kept in decent shape if you keep up with it.
I agree w/ the balance for sure.

If I lived w/ somebody who was out of balance, I'd most definitely
opt for the clean freak than the pig pen.

It's too painful for me to speak about this subject, so maybe I should keep to women's suffrage instead!

 

[elephunky]

Women are not IMO, races are.

 

[LJSGM]

Women are not IMO, races are.

What is IMO, I'm not into text messaging yet....

 

[elephunky]

In My Opinion

 

[LJSGM]

In My Opinion

Women are not (in my opinion) what, that races are?

Sorry?

 

[elephunky]

Women are notthe most discriminated against, peoplef rom certain races are.

I was replying to the original post

 

[LJSGM]

Women are notthe most discriminated against, peoplef rom certain races are.

I was replying to the original post

No, not in industrialized nations.