Women and Employment

[discernomatic]

I am currently reading a book called The Family by John MacArthur Jr.. In it he states that according to scripture, women should not work outside the home. Doing so would be considered disobedience to God, i.e. sin. He maintains that there are no exceptions to this rule and that if the men of the family cannot support a woman (and eventually her children) then the church must do it. She would be disobeying God if she looked for a job.

This book was given to me by a deacon in a reformed church to acquaint me with reformed doctrine.

I was wondering if this is only something that a few reformed churches hold to, or if it is an integral part of Calvinistic, reformed doctrine.

When I asked what the reformed church I currently attend believes, I was told to read the London Baptist Confession of 1689, but MacArthur's statements about women and employment were not echoed in the confession. My parents have been attending that church for about three years now and have not heard this taught openly there. Most of the women there homeschool their children, but a few, like my mother, have regular jobs. When being screened for membership, I was asked if I would be planning to homeschool my children.

I found this to be strange, and the book to be stranger.

If this is not regular teaching in the reformed church, then what reformed groups would be teaching it? If it is not widely taught, is it approved of by the majority of reformed believers or not?

 

[wnwall]

Just speaking from my own personal experience, discernomatic, I have never heard that. I have heard gender roles taught often, that the man should be the head of the family as Christ is the head of the church, but I have never head that women should not work. I grew up in a PCA (very Reformed) church. My grandfather is an elder there, and my grandmother used to have a job (has since retired though). Also, my uncle is currently an elder there and my aunt has a job. I do not know if some of the leaders of Reformed theology have taught such things in the past or not, but the pastor at my church is Ligon Duncan, and he's pretty well known in the Reformed community in America, and since my aunt and many others at my church work, I think it's safe to say Dr. Duncan would not argue that women should not have jobs. I am as surprised as you are.

Is the entire book devoted to that topic or is it only a small part of the book? If that's all the book is about, it seems a weird thing to give someone who's asking about Reformed theology (whether or not it has any historical basis) in my opinion. I'd also be interested in hearing what sort of biblical evidence is used to support such a position.

God bless,
Nathan

 

[bradfordl]

John MacArthur is reformed?

I didn't notice where Paul commanded Lydia to stop selling purple. Or Priscilla to quit making tents.

 

[discernomatic]

Just speaking from my own personal experience, discernomatic, I have never heard that. I have heard gender roles taught often, that the man should be the head of the family as Christ is the head of the church, but I have never head that women should not work. I grew up in a PCA (very Reformed) church. My grandfather is an elder there, and my grandmother used to have a job (has since retired though). Also, my uncle is currently an elder there and my aunt has a job. I do not know if some of the leaders of Reformed theology have taught such things in the past or not, but the pastor at my church is Ligon Duncan, and he's pretty well known in the Reformed community in America, and since my aunt and many others at my church work, I think it's safe to say Dr. Duncan would not argue that women should not have jobs. I am as surprised as you are.

Is the entire book devoted to that topic or is it only a small part of the book? If that's all the book is about, it seems a weird thing to give someone who's asking about Reformed theology (whether or not it has any historical basis) in my opinion. I'd also be interested in hearing what sort of biblical evidence is used to support such a position.

God bless,
Nathan

The book also contains chapters about relationships, wives, husbands, children, parents and addresses divorce and remarriage.

One verse used is Titus 2:3-5, especially the phrase in verse 5, “workers at home.” MacArthur states, “I think the emphasis is really that wives ought to work when ant home and they ought to work at home.” p. 33.

He also uses 1 Timothy 5:14, “ ‘Therefore I want younger [women] to get married, bear children [and] keep house.’ …. a woman is to be a lover of her husband, a lover of her children, and one who does her assigned task at home. All of this seems to be related to the general principle that a wife is to be submissive to her own husband. A woman who works outside the home has a different set of circumstances to deal with: other involvements, other complications, other bosses, other people giving the orders, and other men to whom she must submit. …A woman who works outside the home puts herself under authorities that have no biblical injunction to be responsible for her as a husband does. p. 33, 34.

“Is a woman ever to be the ‘breadwinner,’ the main provider for her family? I don’t find in the Bible any statement that says the woman is to be the protector or the provider for the family. And, ultimately, our convictions must come not from our experience but from the authoritative Word of God.” p. 35.

I really disagree with the last statement, the Bible doesn’t tell us absolutely everything about how to run our lives, it can’t teach me how to drive a car, but I do that anyway. I also think that some of what science has discovered, say about the human mind, emotions and behavior is very valuable, some of it is echoed in the Bible and some is not.

“What about the woman with children at home whose husband dies or divorces her and she has to go to work? In such cases, the father is not there, and by going to work the mother also is absent. Who’s responsible? The answer comes from the spirit of 1 Timothy 5:8, where men in the family are to provide. If I am related to such a person I’m responsible to help take up her support so she can stay at home. And if she has no family who can do that, the church is responsible. She should not have to go to work outside the home and abdicate the primary responsibility God has given her (1 Tim. 3:15).

What about older women whose children are grown? The answer is in Titus 2:3-5. …Now that they’re older they should invest themselves in a spiritual ministry of teaching the younger women. I’m not saying that a woman can’t work at that point, but I don’t see a provision for that in Scripture. She may exercise that option if she chooses, but I do know that Scripture says the mature women are responsible to teach the younger women the things they’ve learned….”

He isn’t saying it is a sin in this case, but to me seems to be accusing women that do go to work at that point of neglect. I think that they could still teach younger women their wisdom and values after work.

MacArthur goes on, “I recognize that many women don’t have much of a choice right now. Nobody is taking care of them or making provision for them. Some women are working because no one in their families is willing to provide for them. This is something the church has neglected for centuries and needs to take seriously. The woman is not to be the breadwinner. She is to care for her family.” p. 35-36.

The pastor and one deacon of the church I have been attending did ask me, right after we discussed my application for admission to the church, whether I would consider home schooling my children. All of the women that have young children there do, I think, I would be the only exception. I am not living with my husband right now and need to find work to support myself. A few older women, like my mother, do have jobs.

Somehow I think that they are promoting a certain subcultural lifestyle as “biblical” and “reformed” when it may only be an obscure interpretation of scripture. From what I have seen I don’t think they are hyper Calvinists.

 

[discernomatic]

John MacArthur is reformed?

I didn't notice where Paul commanded Lydia to stop selling purple. Or Priscilla to quit making tents.

MacArthur is reformed Baptist.

I was wondering about Lydia too. They did meet at Lydia's home. She may have been an anomaly, but they didn't seem to have problems with that. I was thinking that she might have taken over her husband's business after his death and may even have been an equal partner in the business, otherwise she wouldn't have known the ins and outs of it enough to continue. JMHO

 

[GrinningDwarf]

MacArthur is reformed Baptist.

Y'know...I've thought about this a lot, and even though MacArthur is Reformed in his soteriology (or how people get saved), as far as I can see he really has nothing else in common with Reformed theology...the main issue for me being his vehement adherance to dispensational theology, including pre-milennialism, to the point of calling calling other views heretical.

 

[non-religious]

[GrinningDwarf]the main issue for me being his vehement adherance to dispensational theology, including pre-milennialism, to the point of calling calling other views heretical.

To a point that too has been my concern about him, although he has said some very profound things I totally agree with.

In regard to his views on women staying at home. I disagree with any such notion....

 

[xapis]

This book was given to me by a deacon in a reformed church to acquaint me with reformed doctrine.

...whew. Talk about starting off on the wrong foot.

 

[GrinningDwarf]

This book was given to me by a deacon in a reformed church to acquaint me with reformed doctrine.

I'm suprised you would be given a book on that topic to acquaint you with Reformed doctrine. It really has nothing to do with Reformed doctrine.

I would recommend RC Sproul's What Is Reformed Thology?, or Michael Horton's Putting Amazing Back Into Grace or God of Promise.

Actually...I'd recommend reading all three!

 

[xapis]

Yes... and after reading those, perhaps you could read The Sovereignty of God by A.W. Pink.

 

[bradfordl]

Yah, My question as to MacArthur's reformed credentials was tongue-in-cheek. Not the worst of the so-called "3 1/2 pointer" dispys, but certainly not anyone I'd go to for an introduction to reformed theology.

But after reading the quotes here from the book, there is a lot that I agree with. I believe a woman working at home is the best circumstance to pursue. I also agree that it is an indictment against both the Church and covenant families that we don't promote and materially support this among our members.

That negligence has contributed to the deterioration in our culture of both institutions, to the creation of an economy that tries to demand two-income households, and to the abandonment of our nation's children to the amorality of gov't secular humanist madrassas.

 

[xapis]

I believe a woman working at home is the best circumstance to pursue. I also agree that it is an indictment against both the Church and covenant families that we don't promote and materially support this among our members.

That negligence has contributed to the deterioration in our culture of both institutions, to the creation of an economy that tries to demand two-income households, and to the abandonment of our nation's children to the amorality of gov't secular humanist madrassas.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[mlqurgw]

I am currently reading a book called The Family by John MacArthur Jr.. In it he states that according to scripture, women should not work outside the home. Doing so would be considered disobedience to God, i.e. sin. He maintains that there are no exceptions to this rule and that if the men of the family cannot support a woman (and eventually her children) then the church must do it. She would be disobeying God if she looked for a job.

This book was given to me by a deacon in a reformed church to acquaint me with reformed doctrine.

I was wondering if this is only something that a few reformed churches hold to, or if it is an integral part of Calvinistic, reformed doctrine.

When I asked what the reformed church I currently attend believes, I was told to read the London Baptist Confession of 1689, but MacArthur's statements about women and employment were not echoed in the confession. My parents have been attending that church for about three years now and have not heard this taught openly there. Most of the women there homeschool their children, but a few, like my mother, have regular jobs. When being screened for membership, I was asked if I would be planning to homeschool my children.

I found this to be strange, and the book to be stranger.

If this is not regular teaching in the reformed church, then what reformed groups would be teaching it? If it is not widely taught, is it approved of by the majority of reformed believers or not?

At the risk of offending my Reformed Baptist friends this seems to be typical of many of them. Some, not all, are so concerned with how you live your life and walk in faith that they get into every aspect of your life. They seek to control you and in essence put folks under bondage again. It is done under the name of eldership and pastoral care. When you place yourself under their authority you essentially give up your freedom in Christ. I have to wonder about any who would give you such a book to read rather than taking the time to sit down with you and answer your questions. I suspect they are trying to prepare your mind for brainwashing. I have seen it happen several times before. They get you to read the book and then come to show you how you ought to submit. If you disagree they will tell you that you are being disobedient to Christ and His authority given to them.
As far as women working outside the home; it is something our modern western culture has affected and is accepted as the norm. If at all possible a women should be keeper at home though I do not believe it is a sin if she works outside the home. It is a very difficult road for a women who works outside the home as the care of the home still falls to her when she gets off work.

 

[non-religious]

We are a two income family. My wife is a teacher and I a property developer. We have a beautiful eleven year old daughter who goes to a private Christian school. From a purely financial perspective, my wife does not need to work and when we have another child, my wife, or perhaps even myself, will stay at home until the child is old enough to start school.

I have absolutely no problem with women wanting to pursue a career, in fact I for one applaud it. There has been no breakdown within our family structure and I could name many factors that contribute to the deterioration of society that has absolutely nothing to do with two parents working...

Now I am off to spend some money, enjoy your day

 

[xapis]

To the OP:

This little booklet gives a nice, brief overview of Covenant Theology: http://www.monergismbooks.com/dispycov3389.html