Woke is Marxism Evolved to Take on the West

Aldebaran

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You don't have to approve. But thanks for a link that tells us that the punishment is death. It's a good example of what toleration is not about...telling some gay person that they 'deserve to die'.

And 'Hey, I'm just quoting the bible' doesn't cut it. People quote passages from the bible to bolster their argument. Because they believe what the bible says.
Since we all have sinned, we all deserve death. As a result, the things that are sin are not things to give approval to those who practice them (and express "pride" in doing so).
 
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Bradskii

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Since we all have sinned, we all deserve death. As a result, the things that are sin are not things to give approval to those who practice them (and express "pride" in doing so).
Yeah...that doesn't work either. Maybe you can point to any post you have ever written in any thread at any time anywhere where you suggest that adultery or anything like it deserves death. We could all wait around while you look, but we won't. And for very good reason.

I don't know how many times I have said this, but it's not so much what one says. It's how one says it. So...

'Homosexuals deserve to die'

...is a lot different to:

'I am concerned for everyone's immortal soul, mine included, because the bible says that we may pay for our sins with eternal death.'

The first comes across as self righteous and hateful. The second is compassionate and shows concern. How you put across the message will reflect on you.
 
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Aldebaran

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Yeah...that doesn't work either. Maybe you can point to any post you have ever written in any thread at any time anywhere where you suggest that adultery or anything like it deserves death. We could all wait around while you look, but we won't. And for very good reason.

I don't know how many times I have said this, but it's not so much what one says. It's how one says it. So...

'Homosexuals deserve to die'

...is a lot different to:

'I am concerned for everyone's immortal soul, mine included, because the bible says that we may pay for our sins with eternal death.'

The first comes across as self righteous and hateful. The second is compassionate and shows concern. How you put across the message will reflect on you.
I didn't write the Bible. Sorry if you don't like how it's worded.
 
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Bradskii

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I didn't write the Bible. Sorry if you don't like how it's worded.
Like I said, and it looks like I'll have to say it again, it's not necessarily what you say, it's how you say it. Worried about everyones soul, including yours? Then make that clear. Just want to apply a biblical quote to one group of people which says they deserve to die? Then do exactly as you did.

You think that quoting the bible verbatim excuses you from normal standards of behaviour. It doesn't.
 
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gaara4158

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I didn't say anything about gay people. I only addressed the issue of homosexuality.
We don’t need you to support issues. We need you to support people.
 
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Aldebaran

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We don’t need you to support issues. We need you to support people.
By the way you keep conflating the two, it sounds more like it's the issues (homosexuality, in this case) you want supported.
See posts 131, 132, and 135 which illustrate that quite well.
 
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Aussie Pete

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Woke has taken on a meaning that is no longer valid.I decided to ask Bard. Here you go.....

The term "woke" is a slang term that originated in African-American Vernacular English (AAVE) in the early 2000s. It is used to describe someone who is aware of and actively attentive to important societal issues, especially issues of racial and social justice. The term has become increasingly popular in recent years, and is now used more broadly to describe anyone who is aware of and concerned about social and political issues.
The term "woke" has been criticized by some for being too vague and for being used to dismiss or silence opposing viewpoints. However, the term has also been praised for its ability to raise awareness of important issues and for its empowering message of social justice.
Here are some examples of how the term "woke" can be used:
  • "I'm woke to the fact that there is systemic racism in America."
  • "The woke generation is more politically active than ever before."
  • "The woke movement has helped to raise awareness of important issues like climate change and LGBTQ+ rights."
Ultimately, the meaning of the term "woke" is up to the individual user. However, it is generally used to describe someone who is aware of and actively attentive to important societal issues.
"Woke" has come to mean that everything Christianity stands for is evil and needs to be torn down.
 
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Aussie Pete

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We don’t need you to support issues. We need you to support people.
What do you mean "support"? If that means help them overcome bondages to sin such as homosexuality, drug addiction, fornication, adultery and such, I agree. If it means to leave unbelievers alone to sin as they please, I'm fine with that. If you mean, tolerate sin and sweep it under the carpet, no way. That's not God's way.
 
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Bradskii

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"Woke" has come to mean that everything Christianity stands for is evil and needs to be torn down.
As if 'Christianity' is something that all Christians agree on. Gimme a break. Your views on certain matters are directly in opposition to many others. Oh, but your's are the correct ones of course. How stupid of me...
 
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gaara4158

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By the way you keep conflating the two, it sounds more like it's the issues (homosexuality, in this case) you want supported.
See posts 131, 132, and 135 which illustrate that quite well.
In everything I recommended you do, it’s in support of people. You keep objecting by saying that would mean supporting the issues.
 
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gaara4158

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What do you mean "support"? If that means help them overcome bondages to sin such as homosexuality, drug addiction, fornication, adultery and such, I agree. If it means to leave unbelievers alone to sin as they please, I'm fine with that. If you mean, tolerate sin and sweep it under the carpet, no way. That's not God's way.
I’ve been over this already. If tolerating homosexuality means not actively targeting or excluding gay people, supporting it means actively including and socializing with them. Trying to convert gays out of homosexuality amounts to intolerance, not support.
 
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Larniavc

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Since we all have sinned, we all deserve death. As a result, the things that are sin are not things to give approval to those who practice them (and express "pride" in doing so).
Where are all the calls for death penalty for adultery? Or being a rape victim? Or any other of the death sentences the Bible stipulates?
 
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Larniavc

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"Woke" has come to mean that everything Christianity stands for is evil and needs to be torn down.
Agreed. There are a lot of people who have such a simplistic and easily manipulated world view that words like woke can easily be weaponised into meaning ‘not what I like’.
 
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ViaCrucis

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In practice, it seems to me that social conservatives use the term "woke" most when referring to:
- Pushing for LGBT rights, especially trans rights these days.
- Pushing diversity in media, both with LGBT and with non-white-male lead characters.

And I don't get the Marxist connection in either case.

Disclaimer: I'm going to be operating from an American perspective, because I am an American and more familiar with my own nation's history and circumstances. But I know that a lot of what I'm going to mention in the following applies, or has parallels, outside of the US.

"Marxism" is a bogeyman word. It serves two purposes, depending on how self-aware the person using it is. For white-collar Fascists it's a way to manipulate blue-collar conservatives toward their way of thinking; because the average blue-collar conservative would have no desire to be associated with anything openly fascist, they also have over a century of worry instilled by authoritarian regimes which claimed to be Marxist in the form of, for example, the USSR and Maoist China. "Marxism", "Communism", "Socialism" are all blended together indiscriminately, and are simply presented as Stalinism/Maoism. That means that people with power who exploit the blue-collar conservative are able to convince the blue-collar conservative to actively fight against their own interests.

The term "woke" was coined within African American communities as a way to talk about being awake to the realities of racial injustice. The term, like as often happens with words coined within African American communities, was co-opted by the larger (predominantly white) population. And then taken up by some as a way to try and then attack those advocating for justice and systemic change. So now "woke" is pretty much used exclusively as a pejorative to dismiss conversation about systemic injustices which negatively affect marginalized groups. This is what phrases like "woke mob" and "woke mind virus" are intended to do.

By associating "woke" as a pejorative with "Marxism", it is intended to perpetuate the "Cultural Marxist" conspiracy theory. It's simply, again, the attempt by elitists who manipulate and exploit ordinary working class people into acting against their own interests by sowing division and creating scape goats.

Because a light has been starting to be shined on the dark and sinister realities of power, and exposing evil as evil and exploitation as exploitation, and that our present civilization is essentially built upon the foundation of exploitation for the sake of the few and the wealthy--that upsets, and frightens the powerful. And since there are more of us than there is of them, the only real way they can maintain their hegemony of power is by manipulating and exploiting at least a good amount of the population into being afraid of "those people over there".

Conservatives aren't dummies, they know that politicians are crooked, they know rich billionaire CEOs are corrupt. But if you can also convince those blue-collar conservatives that it's actually undocumented workers entering into the country, or that it's the 0.1% of people who undergo gender affirming care, or that anyone who is gay is actually a pedophile trying to groom children, or that black men are out to steal white women, or that the Chinese are going to take all the good railway work--well then that at least presents a supposed "more immediate" threat than the obvious devil in the room--take care of the scape goat first, then address the problem of the devil. But there is always going to be a new scape goat. They keep creating new ones. Jews, Muslims, Socialists, homosexuals, immigrants. There's always a group to blame, always a group to be afraid of.

If it helps to sow discord and exploit fear, then sure, call it Marxism. Call it anything, but the goal is to keep people afraid and distracted.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Whyayeman

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People quote passages from the bible to bolster their argument....
... And are selective about it.

When were the Beatitudes last quoted here? I don't think I have ever seen them quoted, even in part, in the forums I am permitted to participate in them. I think every post by purported Christians on this thread can be rebutted by one or other of the following:

3. Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven.
4. Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5. Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the Earth.
6. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be satisfied.
7. Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8. Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9. Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called the Sons of God.
10. Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven.
11. Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
12. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Matthew 5: 3 - 12

Feel free to argue as you see fit, but be careful, Christians! You cannot argue with the direct Words of your God!
 
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Aldebaran

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You made it up. Stop being disingenuous.
I appreciate you giving me the credit for "making it up", but the fact of the matter is that I first heard a different version of it from Ron DeSantis.

"If you look at the way this has actually been implemented across the country, DEI is better viewed as standing for discrimination, exclusion and indoctrination," DeSantis said during a news conference at New College of Florida in Sarasota. "And that has no place in our public institutions."
 
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Aldebaran

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Where are all the calls for death penalty for adultery? Or being a rape victim? Or any other of the death sentences the Bible stipulates?
I'm not sure what any of that has to do with anything since nobody here is calling for the death penalty for homosexuality.
 
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Aldebaran

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In everything I recommended you do, it’s in support of people. You keep objecting by saying that would mean supporting the issues.
Not according to one of your previous posts:

Yes, it is. Tolerating homosexuality means not actively attacking them or targeting them with legislation. Tolerance is necessary where it’s not already present. Supporting homosexuality means treating them no differently than you would your heterosexual friends. As in, don’t grimace every time they mention their same-sex partner, or a date they went on, or bring a same-sex partner around. Include them in your social functions and attend theirs. Be a reliable source of emotional support.

Celebration, which is the next step, would be going to Pride with your gay friends. It’s not morally obligatory but it is morally commendable.
Notice how each item you mention has to do with the issue we're discussing, which is homosexuality. You even go so far as recommend going to "Pride" events with gay "friends". By the same token, should I support my alcoholic friends by not "grimacing" when they say they're going to a bar, or brag about how drunk they got the previous night?
Then the celebration part, which you describe is the next step. Should I actually go to the bar with my alcoholic friend as well? Would you consider that to be "not morally obligatory but it is morally commendable" as well?
 
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