With all your heart?

[All Glory To God]

"Mr. Hammster sir, you truly are the smartest, far seeing and likeable rodent on our forum.

Joke aside, yes it would be nice if they come round to the ''no'' option."

 

[Hammster]

What about Peter? Don't you think he loved God with all his heart, soul, mind and strength? And yet he failed the test, denied knowing Christ thrice.

Seems self-evident that at those moments, he loved himself more.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Darn. James got it wrong. Thanks for setting him straight.

Congratulations you found a verse describing one type of sin. Do you know the definition of the word stumble? Who intentionally stumbles? Sin as a result of lust would be premeditated not a stumble.

 

[BNR32FAN]

This is getting absurd. Just saying...

But I'll play, (since I wasn't invited).

Did you sin against your wife? So what has that to do with the OP?

Well some people are implying that if we stumble in sin it is still a result of a lack of love for God. So I made this point to ask if I accidentally hit my wife with a baseball does that mean that I loved her less at that moment? Some are also implying that stumbling in sin is the result of our lust to rebel against God so I would also use this illustration to ask did I want to rebel against my wife by accidentally hitting her with the ball?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Did you do it on purpose?

No and that’s my point. Unintentional sin is not the result of a rebellious intention or lack of love for God. It’s an accident hence the term stumbling in sin. Nobody trips intentionally.

 

[Hammster]

Congratulations you found a verse describing one type of sin. Do you know the definition of the word stumble? Who intentionally stumbles? Sin as a result of lust would be premeditated not a stumble.

James sure didn’t make it seem like it was just one type of sin. And stumbling, whatever your understanding of that is, doesn’t make the sin okay. If it did, you wouldn’t have to repent of it.

 

[Hammster]

Well some people are implying that if we stumble in sin it is still a result of a lack of love for God. So I made this point to ask if I accidentally hit my wife with a baseball does that mean that I loved her less at that moment? Some are also implying that stumbling in sin is the result of our lust to rebel against God so I would also use this illustration to ask did I want to rebel against my wife by accidentally hitting her with the ball?

The fact that you compare the two shows that you have a weak grasp on the doctrine of sin. It’s like comparing apples to V-8 engines.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Read this verse below and believe it, friend.

2 Corinthians 10:5
“Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;”

Yeah I would say “casting down imaginations” is what I was referring to when we don’t allow ourself to indulge in sinful thoughts when they present themselves.

 

[BNR32FAN]

James sure didn’t make it seem like it was just one type of sin. And stumbling, whatever your understanding of that is, doesn’t make the sin okay. If it did, you wouldn’t have to repent of it.

Ive said several times that stumbling in sin is still a sin. Going back to the baseball illustration, my wife would rightfully be angry at me if I didn’t apologize for hitting her with the baseball even tho it was an accident. My whole point is that stumbling in sin is not a result of a lack of love or a rebellion against God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Mark Quayle said: ↑
I'm having a bit of trouble following you. You keep using the word, "for". "For", in what context? For sin, for sinning, what do you mean --that I am in favor of sin and sinning? Never!! I don't know what you are saying by saying I am arguing for sin or arguing for the opposite of not sinning. "Not sinning" in what context? (I won't do more than mention your double-negative, lol)

I should not have to explain to you simple words like “for” and “keep.”
We live in a digital age, and there is no excuse not to know basic words today. You can Google the definitions of these words and their common uses.

All I said in that post is that I don't say we don't sin, and that I say we do sin. How is that either one --arguing for or against sinning? It was neither, unless you mean, arguing for 'sin being something we do', or, arguing for the opposite of 'sin being something we should do'; or perhaps you meant something else, but not simply "arguing for sin". I am not in favor of sin.

From your perspective, I can imagine that you are not in favor of sin. But I believe that God's Word tells us that we can obey God's commands like the 1st greatest commandment. You don't believe that is possible, and thus as a result, you are in favor of disobeying this command without any real warrant given in Scripture. Thus, your “arguing for sin” because you are arguing that you cannot keep God's commands like the first greatest commandment. But again, from your perspective or belief (Which is not what the Bible teaches), you believe that no person is capable of obeying God's commands like the 1st greatest commandments and so they do their best to keep it, but they really don't keep it. Therein lies the problem. If your belief is remotely even biblical here, you would share the words of Jesus and or the words of His followers saying it is impossible for men of God to keep God's commands. Now, before you act like you are in favor of obedience to God's commands, just remember, you pushed the OSAS interpretation of 1 John 1:8 on me several times already.

1. BH: "Do you believe we can keep the 1st greatest commandment in this life? Yes, or no?"

MQ: I don't know what you mean by "keep" (i.e. obey perfectly, attempt to obey, pursue, keep in mind for a regulatory principle --what?, but ok, NO

See? You got it, and I did not have to show you a dictionary on what the word “keep” means.
Anyways, the problem is that Jesus teaches that we are to keep the 1st greatest commandment. Yet, you say it is impossible (because you say we can only obey it imperfectly - which is not really obeying it). Jesus says with men things are impossibe, but with God all things are possible. Again, share with me the verses or passages that you believe teaches that God gave us commands specifically to show that we cannot keep them. If you cannot, then you are just following a popular man made belief that you want to be true.

2. BH: "Do you believe we are saved even if we do not keep the 1st greatest commandment in this life?"

MQ: Again, what do you mean by "keep"? But if anyone is "saved", it is not because he keeps any commandment, but because God has moved in, and Christ has taken his place of condemnation. If we continue to walk in disobedience we never were "saved". Nobody is saved, if failure to perfectly keep the 1st greatest commandment in any way, in this life, prevents them. Do not try to say I believe commandments need not be kept.

If I told you that I keep faithful to working out, that means that I am holding on to something. If Joe said “I keep God's commands,” that means he is obeying God's commands. It really is not all that complicated to figure out, brother. Okay. So by what you said here, you are saying that we do need to obey the 1st greatest commandment as a part of salvation? Yes, or no? You really were not all that clear here. I want a definite yes or no answer on this one.

3. BH: "Do you believe we have to keep the commandments of Jesus and His followers as a part of eternal life?
Yes, or no?"

MQ: "Have to"? What do you mean by that? Already I wonder at what you mean by "keep". Then you say "as part of" eternal life. Wow. Loaded.

But, ok, "have to"? --we MUST,

Yes, I am saying we “must” obey, but it does not appear that you are for obedience as a part of salvation.

if we are in Christ, regenerated, redeemed. Not merely out of obligation or returned favor or thankfulness, but because we now have the mind of Christ, the Holy Spirit driven heart within us. So also, we MUST be putting the 'old man' to death. But do we? Yes, but not perfectly. But this love of God --the Spirit of God within us-- compels us

So why not perfectly? Does God fail to do things perfectly?
Note: I am talking here in relation to keeping those commands that deal with mortal sin only (and I am not referring to commands that deal with non-mortal sin). I say this because we are not allowed to talk about Sinless Perfection in this section of the forums.

"Keep" the commandments --obey perfectly? We MUST! but we don't perfectly

Which can mean many things to many people. Some people may think that obeying or keeping God's commands imperfectly as obeying them only once a week, or once a month, or whatever they wish it to mean. A person can deceive themselves that they are obeying God's commands when in reality they really are not. What do you mean by keeping God's commands imperfectly? Can you give us Scriptural examples?

"as part of" eternal life? I sincerely hope you don't think disobedience can undo what God has chosen for eternity. No, such disobedience will not continue in the regenerated elect. But do we sin? "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves." No, I hope what you mean by "as part of eternal life" is that as part and parcel of the Holy Spirit within the regenerated heart we will continuously pursue, or at least desire and return to pursue, obedience, purity and holiness.

So you are of the OSAS belief that 1 John 1:8 that says if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves? Does this mean that you believe that the saint is sinning 24/7? Does this mean we sin every hour or every month or every day? What does it mean? In what way is a person sinning according to 1 John 1:8? If so, that sounds like disobedience to me. 1 John 1:8 sounds like a present moment declaration to me. So if you quoted this to a person, you are trying to tell them that he sins, and we all sin 24/7. If this is not the case, then please explain.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yeah I would say “casting down imaginations” is what I was referring to when we don’t allow ourself to indulge in sinful thoughts when they present themselves.

I gotcha now. Thanks for clarifying, brother.

 

[GDL]

Can we, in our fallen-but-redeemed state here on Earth, love God with all of our heart?

Yes.

Or does our flesh prevent us from doing so?

Our flesh & other factors cause errors & inconsistencies that can be cured in love (see zoidar post below) and overcome to ever greater degrees.

My understanding is that they were blameless, not only because they kept the Law, but because they went to God for forgiveness when they failed to keep it.

Agree.

Some thoughts:

- "all" in the applicable verses mainly means "whole," "totality." If the capacity is increased, the all is greater in quantity.

- "heart," "mind," "soul" and "strength" are essentially encompassing the totality of a person and [seemingly] mainly in relation to thought.

- Setting apart discussion of emotional concepts, "love" in the context has to do with commitment, loyalty, faithfulness, action (keeping God's commandments). Love can be "perfected/completed" in loving God & neighbor (1 John 2 & 4). There is a growth & development factor with love.

- We can & are to love God with all we are & have at any given time.

- In this weak body (Matt26:41; Mark14:38) & growing spiritually we will be inconsistent and growing in love.

- We are to grow in love & consistency in love.

- We are to be giving it our all & striving for perfection/completion in love.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The fact that you compare the two shows that you have a weak grasp on the doctrine of sin. It’s like comparing apples to V-8 engines.

No it just shows that you can’t admit when your wrong since your ignoring the definition of the word stumble. Something done unintentionally is not the result of a lack of love or a rebellious attitude. I don’t understand how you can’t grasp this concept other than to think that you simply reject it because of pride.

 

[Hammster]

Ive said several times that stumbling in sin is still a sin. Going back to the baseball illustration, my wife would rightfully be angry at me if I didn’t apologize for hitting her with the baseball even tho it was an accident. My whole point is that stumbling in sin is not a result of a lack of love or a rebellion against God.

You are comparing something outside of your control with something in your control. Apples and V-8s.

 

[Hammster]

From your perspective, I can imagine that you are not in favor of sin. But I believe that God's Word tells us that we can obey God's commands like the 1st greatest commandment. You don't believe that is possible, and thus as a result, you are in favor of disobeying this command without any real warrant given in Scripture. Thus, your “arguing for sin” because you are arguing that you cannot keep God's commands like the first greatest commandment.

I can’t tell if you really don’t understand the argument, or if your only retort is to straw man his point. The point isn’t whether we can keep the command, but whether we can keep it perfectly.

I really, really, hope that helps.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You are comparing something outside of your control with something in your control. Apples and V-8s.

An involuntary action is not in my control. Hitting my thumb with a hammer will cause an involuntary action.

 

[Hammster]

No it just shows that you can’t admit when your wrong since your ignoring the definition of the word stumble. Something done unintentionally is not the result of a lack of love or a rebellious attitude. I don’t understand how you can’t grasp this concept other than to think that you simply reject it because of pride.

Maybe you’re correct. Can you show me where stumble is used in the way you are meaning? Thanks.

 

[Hammster]

An involuntary action is not in my control. Hitting my thumb with a hammer will cause an involuntary action.

Then it’s not sin, and no need to repent.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You are comparing something outside of your control with something in your control. Apples and V-8s.

Ok I have a request. Give me a better example of stumbling in sin that you think is more fitting and keep in mind that in order for it to be considered a stumble it has to be involuntary. No one stumbles intentionally. No matter what involuntary sin you give it still will not be the result of a lack of love or a rebellious attitude towards God.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Then it’s not sin, and no need to repent.

Shouting a curse word is still a sin whether it was on accident or not.