With all your heart?

[I'mBlessed!]

It is not possible to obey perfectly His command to love Him with all our heart, but God knows this and “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” 1 John 1:9
Jesus told His disciples “If ye love me, keep my commandments.” John 14:15
Unfortunately, nobody can keep all God's commandments everyday because of our fallen nature. If we cannot keep His commandments perfectly then we cannot love Him perfectly. What matters is giving our heart to God by repenting and believing in Jesus Christ and having a relationship with Him (not religion). “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9
And it is this same grace we are under when we enter into the new convenant under the blood of the Lamb “For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.” Romans 6:14
Thank you so much for reading. May God bless you

 

[Hammster]

I didn't mean to be funny or anything. We have the flesh even we have a new nature. I thought the flesh could be called "the fallen nature" in us that battles the new nature.

Maybe @hislegacy means we no longer have a "sinful nature" as the flesh?

I know. But I thought it would be clearer that way.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I am no longer fallen when I become redeemed - you cannot be both at the same time.

That is the issue I am having in trying to understand the OP.

I am a new creation in Christ ALL things have passed, ALL things are new.

Can I love God with ALL my heart - absolutely yes.
Do I love God with all my heart? - absolutely yes.

Logically, then, since he says, "If you love me you will keep my commandments.", you keep his commandments completely, without sin.

So what do you do with, "If we say we are without sin, we deceive ourselves..."

 

[hislegacy]

formerly-unregenerate-but-now-regenerate-yet-not-glorified

I’ll bow out.

my replies stand.

Can I love God with all my heart? Absolutely yes

 

[hislegacy]

formerly-unregenerate-but-now-regenerate-yet-not-glorified

Show it in scripture please.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Who are you replying to?

Who is a street preacher talking to when people are just walking past him and not paying any attention to him at a particular point in time?

Sometimes I do use the words, “To all:”, or “To anyone who has ears to hear:”, etc.

Who here has been justifying sin and/or the breaking of God's commands?

Please understand it is not my goal to set out to attack any one individual here. I am just a messenger and I am just relaying what I believe what God's Word says. For many in the church today hold to a view that they cannot keep any of God's laws, and that was God's intention (Which doesn't make any sense because then God would have to agree with their justification of sinning). But can God agree with sin? Surely not. God is holy, just, and good, and pure.

Now, obviously if a person holds to the view that they can break God's commands (like not keeping the 1st greatest commandment), and they will be okay with God, then they will conclude that they are not justifying sin. But if God's Word teaches that we are obligated to keep select commands as a part of eternal life here on Earth, like the keeping of the 1st greatest commandment to love God (and I believe that to be the case - See Luke 10:25-28), and others disagree that with that conclusion in His Word, then those who disagree are disagreeing with an obligation God has set forth for us within His holy Word, and they are justifying disobedience to God's command and thus they are justifying sin. For sin is the breaking of the law or commandment (1 John 3:4).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So what do you do with, "If we say we are without sin, we deceive ourselves..."

What is helpful in understanding 1 John 1:8 is looking at its immediate context. 1 John 1:10 says if we say we have not sinned. 1 John 1:10 switches gears from 1 John 1:8 in regards to time; John talks about the declaration on committing sin in verse 8 (which is present tense) to a declaration on committing sin being a past declaration (with verse 10). Verse 10 is saying there are people who said they have not sinned (past tense). This is clearly a gnostic belief. Why? Well, most believers today hold to the idea that they have sinned as a part of their old life before coming to Christ (Regardless of whether they are “OSAS,” a “Sin and still be saved” type believer, or a “Conditional Salvationist”). So this clearly is a “gnostic belief” that John was warning the brethren about (See 1 John 2:26). 1 John 1:8 is a present declaration of sin. It is saying if we say we have no sin when we do sin (present tense). This has to be the interpretative understanding of this verse because 1 John 2:4 says if we say we know Him and do not keep His commandments we are a liar and the truth is not in us. The OSAS's interpretation on 1 John 1:8 does not work because it conflicts with a normal reading on 1 John 2:3-4. You cannot always be in sin (breaking God's commands) as a part of 1 John 1:8 and yet also fulfill 1 John 2:3 that says we can have an assurance of knowing Him if we keep His commandments. Especially when 1 John 2:4 says we are a liar and the truth is not in us if we break his commandments. In other words, if the OSAS interpretation on 1 John 1:8 was true, then I would be damned if I do by obeying God's commands (1 John 1:8) and yet I would be damned if I don't by not obeying God's commands (1 John 2:4).

In fact, the New English Translation says this for 1 John 1:8,

"If we say we do not bear the guilt of sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8 NET).​

In other words, this verse is saying that if a person sins and says they do not bear the guilt of sin (in the sense that they will not have to face any wrath or Judgment from God over their sin) then they would be deceiving themselves and the truth would not be in them. This is exactly what the Eternal Security proposes. They are saying that they do not bear the guilt of any sin (destruction of their soul and body in hell fire) if they do sin because they believe their future sins are paid for by Jesus. They are saying, they do not bear the guilt or the punishment of sin at the final Judgment because of their belief on Jesus. In short, 1 John 1:8 is a denial of the existence of sin on some level. “If we say we have no sin (in the sense that it does not exist) we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.” (1 John 1:8). Christian Scientists think sin is an illusion and does not exist at all. So this verse would apply to them. Eternal Security Proponents and those who deny that “Sin Can Separate a Believer from God” deny the existence of sin partially. They believe sin exists physically but they do not believe sin exists for them on a spiritual level because Jesus has forgiven them of all their sin by their belief on Jesus. In fact, to see just how silly your argument actually is for 1 John 1:8, you would have to believe that you are sinning right now at this very moment in order for such a verse to be true because 1 John 1:8 is speaking in the present tense.

John prescribes that we do not think that sin is an illusion, and we are automatically saved, but John is telling us to "sin not" and go to our advocate Jesus Christ (1 John 2:1), and confess our sins so as to be forgiven of sin and to be cleansed of all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). How can you confess and be forgiven of sin if all your future sin is paid for? It makes no sense.

You can say that John is talking about a break of fellowship by one's sins and not a loss of salvation, but that would not be consistent with Scripture. 1 John 5:12 says he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son does not have life.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To all:

Some may bring up how it impossible to keep God's commands in the New Testament by pointing to the NT command in Romans 12:18 that says for us to live peaceably with all men. However, they are not including the crucial words that go before this command.

“If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.” (Romans 12:18).

So Paul is commanding us that IF IT BE POSSIBLE, and as much as lies within us.... we are to: Live peaceably with all men. But keep in mind, that not all commands in the New Testament has this clause or exception. The 1st greatest commandment does not have this clause of exception.

 

[Hammster]

Show it in scripture please.

Show what? That we used to be as children of wrath and now we aren’t?

Ephesians 2:1-5

 

[Hammster]

To all:

Some may bring up how it impossible to keep God's commands in the New Testament by pointing to the NT command in Romans 12:18 that says for us to live peaceably with all men. However, they are not including the crucial words that go before this command.

“If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.” (Romans 12:18).

So Paul is commanding us that IF IT BE POSSIBLE, and as much as lies within us.... we are to: Live peaceably with all men. But keep in mind, that not all commands in the New Testament has this clause or exception. The 1st greatest commandment does not have this clause of exception.

Yes, but you could live peaceably with me, yet you refuse. So it’s a command that you are breaking.

 

[hislegacy]

Show what? That we used to be as children of wrath and now we aren’t?

Ephesians 2:1-5

Can you please show me any place in the NT where believers are shown as anything other than redeemed, set free, etc.

Why bring up your past? It is no longer you.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Who is a street preacher talking to when people are just walking past him and not paying any attention to him at a particular point in time?

Sometimes I do use the words, “To all:”, or “To anyone who has ears to hear:”, etc.



Please understand it is not my goal to set out to attack any one individual here. I am just a messenger and I am just relaying what I believe what God's Word says. For many in the church today hold to a view that they cannot keep any of God's laws, and that was God's intention (Which doesn't make any sense because then God would have to agree with their justification of sinning). But can God agree with sin? Surely not. God is holy, just, and good, and pure.

Now, obviously if a person holds to the view that they can break God's commands (like not keeping the 1st greatest commandment), and they will be okay with God, then they will conclude that they are not justifying sin. But if God's Word teaches that we are obligated to keep select commands as a part of eternal life here on Earth, like the keeping of the 1st greatest commandment to love God (and I believe that to be the case - See Luke 10:25-28), and others disagree that with that conclusion in His Word, then those who disagree are disagreeing with an obligation God has set forth for us within His holy Word, and they are justifying disobedience to God's command and thus they are justifying sin. For sin is the breaking of the law or commandment (1 John 3:4).

I honestly do not recall reading in this thread anyone saying such things. Those sound like your take of what someone might have said, --eg: "obviously if a person holds to the view that they can break God's commands (like not keeping the 1st greatest commandment), and they will be okay with God..." who said that? Apparently this is the person you were responding to, which is the info I was asking for. So what did this person say, that you took to mean what you said?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To all:

Some may suggest that one is not making peace with all men if one does not address them directly in conversation. Is that not making peace? Well, this needs to be taken into context to other verses in Scripture. The whole counsel of God's Word. Even Jesus Himself at one point did not answer His accusers (Matthew 27:12). Jesus also said that He comes not bring peace, but a sword. For Jesus says, “For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.” (Matthew 10:35-36). I believe that silence can bring peace all on it's own. For words spoken directly to a person can sometimes be taken personally (when that was not the intention), and a person can take offense, and get mad, etc. (Thereby destroying any kind of peace).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I honestly do not recall reading in this thread anyone saying such things. Those sound like your take of what someone might have said, --eg: "obviously if a person holds to the view that they can break God's commands (like not keeping the 1st greatest commandment), and they will be okay with God..." who said that? Apparently this is the person you were responding to, which is the info I was asking for. So what did this person say, that you took to mean what you said?

Do you believe that you can keep the first greatest commandment? Many have said... “no” within this thread, and yet they are not saying they are unsaved as a result of such.

Translation:

This means they do not really have to keep the first greatest commandment and they are okay (i.e. they have eternal life) with God.

 

[I'mBlessed!]

Please understand that “We love him, because he first loved us.” 1 John 4:19 Only in a personal relationship with Jesus Christ can we love Him back. Yes, we are no longer under law but grace as we fail under the law anyway since we are born sinners.
“Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. ” Matthew 22:37-40
Everything we do in life is based on these two commandments. I highly doubt anyone in the whole world obeys these commands perfectly each day. Claiming you love God perfectly is claiming you have a perfect heart which isn't true (well, because we can still sin even though saved).
“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” 1 John 1:8
God doesn't want a perfect heart, just your heart

 

[Mark Quayle]

Can you please show me any place in the NT where believers are shown as anything other than redeemed, set free, etc.

Not that you said you are looking for something to contradict 'redeemed, set free, etc.', and this won't, but you seemed to ask for it. So, Scripture does say that if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves. It certainly doesn't couple redeemed, set free, with sinless perfection from that point forward. So what is your point in asking?

Why bring up your past? It is no longer you.

He brought up who one is before regeneration in the context of your response to his statement: "
Hammster said: ↑
formerly-unregenerate-but-now-regenerate-yet-not-glorified "

You had responded to that, "
hislegacy said: ↑
Show it in scripture please. "

So he gave this answer not only as a direct answer to your demand for what Scripture says, but to provide a statement that it is obvious still in us, 'the old man', who is of a kind with that past nature, but that we are of a new nature. This not only answers your demand with a "yes I can: for example, there is this...." but it also asks for verification of what you want to see scripture for. So why do you move the goalposts? Just answer his question. is that what you were looking for scripture to, or can you tell him what sort of thing you are after? Are you really looking for him to show you something from Scripture to contradict the Scriptural teachings concerning regeneration?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Please understand that “We love him, because he first loved us.” 1 John 4:19 Only in a personal relationship with Jesus Christ can we love Him back. Yes, we are no longer under law but grace as we fail under the law anyway since we are born sinners.
“Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. ” Matthew 22:37-40
Everything we do in life is based on these two commandments. I highly doubt anyone in the whole world obeys these commands perfectly each day. Claiming you love God perfectly is claiming you have a perfect heart which isn't true (well, because we can still sin even though saved).
“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” 1 John 1:8
God doesn't want a perfect heart, just your heart

Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).
That is how we love Jesus according to Jesus.
Jesus says “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).
Paul says, “If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed. O Lord, come!” (1 Corinthians 16:22) (NKJV).

As for 1 John 1:8:

I have already given an explanation already on this verse. See my post #287.

 

[1213]

FWIW, I pretty much believe now that such love, of God and neighbor, sums up righteousness and perfection for man. And that's also really why, simply, the Greatest Commandments are what they are. But it's a work of God's in us, as we come to recognize the supreme, unending value or worthiness of love- and the very Source of that love.

But the saying is still, from our heart, which is why I think it is something from us. But, “all of heart” is not necessary the same in all cases and it is probably as much as God would. I think it means that we do something as well as we can and that is enough. It is possible that we fail in many ways, but it does not matter, if the intention and will is good.

I think this could be compared to the story about poor widow.

Jesus sat down opposite the treasury, and saw how the multitude cast money into the treasury. Many who were rich cast in much. A poor widow came, and she cast in two small brass coins, which equal a quadrans coin. He called his disciples to himself, and said to them, "Most assuredly I tell you, this poor widow gave more than all those who are giving into the treasury, for they all gave out of their abundance, but she, out of her poverty, gave all that she had to live on."
Mark 12:41-44

The poor widow couldn’t give as much as the rich people. But, she gave all she had. Similarly, we can love as much as we can and that is enough and good.

 

[1213]

You can’t answer whether or not you are perfectly obedient?

I don’t think I am perfect. And think it is not the requirement. Righteousness is and as Bible tells, even righteous can stumble.

For a righteous man falls seven times, and rises up again; But the wicked are overthrown by calamity.
Pro. 24:16

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

Of course, righteous person wants to live perfectly, but it is not necessary a problem, if he fails. Things can be forgiven. And righteous person can be recognized from that he regrets, when he knows he has done wrongly and repents, like in this example:

"Two men went up into the temple to pray; one was a Pharisee, and the other was a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed to himself like this: 'God, I thank you, that I am not like the rest of men, extortioners, unrighteous, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week. I give tithes of all that I get.' But the tax collector, standing far away, wouldn't even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner!' I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted."
Luke 18:10-14

Anyway, I think it is still good goal to be perfectly obedient to God and I also want to be obedient to Him. Not to earn something, but because I love him and think He is greatest and the best.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Please understand that “We love him, because he first loved us.” 1 John 4:19 Only in a personal relationship with Jesus Christ can we love Him back. Yes, we are no longer under law but grace as we fail under the law anyway since we are born sinners.
“Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. ” Matthew 22:37-40
Everything we do in life is based on these two commandments. I highly doubt anyone in the whole world obeys these commands perfectly each day. Claiming you love God perfectly is claiming you have a perfect heart which isn't true (well, because we can still sin even though saved).
“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” 1 John 1:8
God doesn't want a perfect heart, just your heart

Furthermore, Jesus agreed with the lawyer that to love God and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life. Jesus basically told the lawyer that He gave the correct answer, and He said, “this do, and thou shalt live.” (Luke 10:28). Jesus did not say, “Wrong lawyer!” “It's impossible to keep God's commands.” Yet, this is what is echoed in the world of Christianity today (When such words are not found in our Bibles).