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Featured Witchcraft in the Church

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Natsumi Lam, Mar 6, 2019.

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  1. Natsumi Lam

    Natsumi Lam Preparer of the Bride Supporter

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    Then why does God place it as an abomination and not just a thou shalt not?
     
  2. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    There are a lot of abominations in the bible, including witchcraft. It is my personal belief that witchcraft doesn't exist. I compared it above to idolatry or the worship of a god that doesn't exist. To worship a god that doesn't exist distracts a person from the worship of God. Witchcraft is also a thing that does not exist, but to practice it is a distraction from the worship of God.
     
  3. Sparagmos

    Sparagmos Well-Known Member

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    Can you be more specific?

    Once again, why do you think there are people in your church practicing witchcraft? Can you give any examples of witches that have been found out in churches?
     
  4. LostMarbels

    LostMarbels Follower of Jesus

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    It believe it has to do with worship and practises of other than of God. A counterfeit.

    Leviticus 20:6 And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.

    Leviticus 19:31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the Lord your God.

    We find in Samuel that King Saul of Israel sought counsel from a medium called the Witch of Endor. The armies of Israel were about to be attacked by the Philistines. Saul was in rebellion against God and in desperation sought the services of the spiritist. That right there is the crime. Seeking spiritual revelation from other than God. It is a counterfeit of the revelation in the Holy Spirit.

    Acts 16:16-18
    As we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a slave girl who had a spirit of divination and brought her owners much gain by fortune-telling. She followed Paul and us, crying out, “These men are servants of the Most High God, who proclaim to you the way of salvation.” And this she kept doing for many days. Paul, having become greatly annoyed, turned and said to the spirit, “I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.” And it came out that very hour.

    That right there says a mouthful. These demons can sepak thru the individual they posses and give information the possessed doesn't even know.
     
  5. Foxfyre

    Foxfyre Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Over the years I have worshiped, worked with, sang with, communed with Methodists, Presybterians, Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), Church of Christ, United Church of Christ, Baptists of various sorts, Lutherans of various sorts, Nazarenes, Episcopalians, Roman Catholics, Four Square, Pentecostals, non-denominationals, and probably others that I didn't think of while typing this.

    Over all of many years, in all those places, I have never encountered anybody practicing witchcraft. Which makes me pretty comfortable that those who presume to be witches aren't spending much, if any, time with any Christian congregations. However, if a witch WAS practicing witchcraft in the church, I think it would be pretty obvious. But I sure don't want us to go back to ferreting out witches and burning them at the stake--universally a terrible and unjust practice--as it was done briefly in the 18th Century.

    I wonder what prompted the question?
     
  6. Bipolargirl

    Bipolargirl Wondering many things

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    Well, there are a lot of Christian groups that “practice witchcraft” albeit a “Christian” form of it. Some even call themselves Christian Witches.
    I practiced witchcraft before I became a Christian.
    The Bible is very clear on that it is wrong.
    Therefore, if you do have someone in the church practicing witchcraft, you should speak privately first and then with two or three people as witnesses.
    If that doesn’t work or if your particular church does not care, I would recommend finding a new church home.
    Especially if it bothers you spiritually and religiously.
    Hope that helps.
     
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  7. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Maybe this will help some..

    There are several verses in the bible where it's stated there are no other Gods, here is one from God himself

    "I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God I will gird you, though you have not known Me

    Yet the commandment states "Thou shalt not have any other Gods before me" and several other verses besides that one state, in so many words, the same...as if there really are other gods.

    My personal belief is, that is God speaking to people that think there are other gods, or coming down to their level in case they aren't convinced there are no other gods.

    So that could cover why witches are mentioned but there are none, not really.

    But to complicate matters, in a very real sense, there are, or mostly "were" witches.

    What if back in the Old testament you went to a Witch for a potion, one that would help you sleep/relax, whatever. She whips out her Mortar and Pestle grinds up some plant flowers, adds a bit of eye of newt/whatever for the sake of dramatics or to make you think there is more to it than there is. Then she gives you small bag of the results, and tells you to use it as a potion by applying fire and inhaling the smoke (sound familiar). Would that not seem like magic, or a magic potion? And there are plenty more such things that can be administered for whatever reason...pain relief for instance

    I'm thinking the eye of newt and such things were things that stories/movies are made of to male it seem magical because there is no drug affect from it, so it must be a magic potion in the mind of some. But real witches back then actually used things that work, making it appear to be magic, but it was really just something they crafted that today we know is not really magic. Like giving a magic fire stick to someone on a far away, technology deficient island, something we know as a cigarette lighter.

    So yes, there are real witches that may still be able to deceive today but magic would be a tough sell in our knowledgeable society, however, back then they could get away with it pretty easily.

    But hey, why not complicate it even further. :) How bout those staffs turned to snakes that Pharaoh's sorcerers whipped up? Was that real magic? Maybe it's mentioned it was an illusion in there but I don't recall it. So if they could do that, could witches do real magic? I doubt it, but it bears mentioning. Maybe there were other cases in the bible I'm not recalling?
     
  8. Jonathan Walkerin

    Jonathan Walkerin Active Member

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    How is this different from people adhering to any faith not their own ?
     
  9. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    In short, it's not. We all have our beliefs. I suppose someone who holds to some other faith would be seen as worshipping a god who does not exist. And I'm sure they might look at me the same way.
     
  10. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith I'm Currently An Eastern Orthodox Catechumen Supporter

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    Here are some scriptures talking about them in the Old and New Testament:


    • Jannes and Jambres
    Jannes and Jambres - Wikipedia



    Then The Magicians of Egypt did so with their Enchantments; and Pharaoh’s heart grew hard, and he did not heed them, as the Lord had said.
    Exodus 7:22



    Now As Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith;
    2 Timothy 3:8








    But Elymas The Sorcerer (for so his name is translated) withstood them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith.
    • Acts 13:8


    But there was a certain man called Simon, who previously Practiced Sorcery in the city and astonished the people of Samaria, claiming that he was someone great,
    • Acts 8:9


    The Death of Simon Magus
    Simon Magus - Wikipedia

    [​IMG]
    The death of Simon Magus, from the Nuremberg Chronicle

    Cyril of Jerusalem (346 A.D.) in the sixth of his Catechetical Lectures prefaces his history of the Manichaeans by a brief account of earlier heresies: "Simon Magus, he says, had given out that he was going to be translated to heaven, and was actually careening through the air in a chariot drawn by demons when Peter and Paul knelt down and prayed, and their prayers brought him to earth a mangled corpse."






    The Witch / Medium of Endor in 1 Samuel 28 that uses Necromancy.
    Witch of Endor - Wikipedia







    Stand now With Your Enchantments
    And The Multitude Of Your Sorceries,

    In which you have labored from your youth
    Perhaps you will be able to profit,
    Perhaps you will prevail.
    You are wearied in the multitude of your counsels;
    Let now The Astrologers, The Stargazers,
    And The Monthly Prognosticators
    Stand up and save you
    From What Shall Come Upon You.
    Behold, They Shall Be As Stubble,
    The Fire Shall Burn Them;
    They shall not deliver themselves
    From The Power Of The Flame;
    It shall not be a coal to be warmed by,
    Nor a fire to sit before!
    Isaiah 47:12-14


    [​IMG]





    But the Cowardly, and Unbelieving, and the Abominable, and Murderers, and Whoremongers, and SORCERERS, and Idolaters, and All Liars, Shall Have Their Part In The Lake Which Burneth With Fire And Brimstone: which is the second death.
    Revelation 21:8



    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
  11. tdidymas

    tdidymas Newbie

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    IMO you are both right in some way. Paul does say that pagan gods are no gods at all; however, he also says that those who sacrifice to them are sacrificing to demons. So, if demons actually exist (which I believe they do), and if they can do real harm to people (albeit spiritual if not physical), then there is something to respect the devil about concerning witchcraft, and there is something to it being an abomination to God. Idolators don't believe in the image, but they do believe in a power behind it.

    Of course, any false idea is a distraction from the truth and the gospel, and most people, including Christians, have false ideas to varying degrees. And those false ideas are harmful spiritually and behaviorally in varying degrees. Witchcraft is indeed a false idea, and it has some harmful properties in peoples' minds and behavior to some degree. But it also may be addictive due to a demonic influence. I know that there are religious people who consider themselves "witches" who call their religion Wicca or Odinism. But I've not noticed any of them hanging out with Christians.

    Semantics may also be a factor in debates, so it might be helpful to clearly define what is meant by "witchcraft" and what behaviors you expect from it.
    TD:)
     
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  12. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    don't expect them to be frothing at the month or wearing a pointy hat. if they are practising witchcraft they are not following Christ but I don't think there would be anything unique about them compared to any other who is not following Christ unless of course you catch them in the act or hear them talking about it.

    the biblical model to handle conflict is to address them about it directly with a couple of people if unresolved then take it to the leadership and if still unresolved there is precedence to remove them from membership.
     
  13. Petros2015

    Petros2015 Well-Known Member

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  14. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    When a church applies the principles of witchcraft to prayer, worship, and the other elements of the faith, there's not much point in addressing it like regular witchcraft.

    It's still the faith to them, they'll just ostracize you, so praying is the only re-course.
     
  15. Tropical Wilds

    Tropical Wilds Lord, beer me strength...

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    As the forums resident Christian Forums boho spiritualist chick who reads Tarot cards and meditates with crystals and reads hippy dippy books as well as the Bible, I’d say you do to them what they do to you... Give them the same space they give you.
     
  16. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith I'm Currently An Eastern Orthodox Catechumen Supporter

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    Saint Cyprian was A Former Sorcerer who Repented and was baptized into The Church. Justina of Antioch is a Christian Saint, known for converting Cyprian, The Pagan Magician of Antioch.

    Cyprian and Justina - Wikipedia

    The Lives of Sts. Cyprian and Justina

    Saint Cyprian and Saint Justina were both killed in 303 or 304 A.D. during the persecutions of The Roman Emperor Diocletian.


    Here's a quote from Foxe's Book of Martyrs :

    " In the course of time he [Cyprian] became acquainted with Justina, a young lady of Antioch, whose birth, beauty, and accomplishments, rendered her the admiration of all who knew her. A pagan gentleman applied to Cyprian, to promote his suit with the beautiful Justina; this he undertook, but soon himself converted, burnt his books of astrology and magic, received baptism, and felt animated with a powerful spirit of grace. The conversion of Cyprian had a great effect on the pagan gentleman who paid his addresses to Justina, and he in a short time embraced Christianity. During the persecutions of Diocletian, Cyprian and Justina were seized upon as Christians, the former was torn with pincers, and the latter chastised; and, after suffering other torments, both were beheaded."









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    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
  17. 80sFlashBacks

    80sFlashBacks Just One Step At A Time!

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    Every human is effected by and influenced by evil. (Period) Doesn't matter whatever kind of spiritizm we would worry about we are evil as in the flesh and so we pray for Christ's righteousness.
     
  18. Archivist

    Archivist Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I have had a couple students over the years who were Wiccan. However, they performed their rites outdoors, usually skyclad (in the nude). I can't imagine them conducting their rites in a church.

    BTW, Wiccans are essentially nature worshipers. Contrary to popular belief they do not sacrifice children or animals.
     
  19. 80sFlashBacks

    80sFlashBacks Just One Step At A Time!

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    @ Archivist

    Being passive is not something Christ will be looking for in the last days. Are you a lover of righitouness or evil. Read your Bible more and see how you will answer.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
  20. Archivist

    Archivist Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Exactly how am I "being passive"? I'm not sire what you mean. As a Christian I certainly am not a "lover of evil."
     
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