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Wisconsin Recount

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by lasthero, Nov 22, 2020 at 10:25 AM.

  1. lasthero

    lasthero Newbie

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    So, as some might be aware, Trump's team is footing the bill for a recount in Wisconsin...sort of. It's actually only for two counties, Milwaukee and Dane, and it's set to be finished by December 1. So far, however, it's behind schedule, and the reason for that...

    Wisconsin officials: Trump observers obstructing recount

    Come on, guys. Really?
     
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  2. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    It sounds more like the people who had their hands in the cookie jar on election night are complaining because the observers have done some observing now that they cannot be prevented from seeing the ballots!
     
  3. Paulos23

    Paulos23 Never tell me the odds!

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    They are really acting like sore losers now. Questioning every ballot? Interfering with the count?

    Sorry, that is not how this is done.
     
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  4. Paulos23

    Paulos23 Never tell me the odds!

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    Did you read the article? It is more like observers that don't know the rules and want to change the vote.
     
  5. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Actually, that is indeed how it's done.

    And here is the critical and most informative part of the Associated Press article--conveniently placed at the very bottom of the article in order to have it be noticed by as few readers as possible:

    "His team is seeking to disqualify ballots where election clerks filled in missing address information on the certification envelope where the ballot is inserted, even though the practice has long been accepted in Wisconsin."

    Translation: Election clerks altered mail-in votes; doing that has been common practice in Wisconsin, however.

    Say what???????
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020 at 10:39 AM
  6. Paulos23

    Paulos23 Never tell me the odds!

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    By having two Republican observers at one table instead of a Democrat and a Republican? By having Trump supporters try to be registered as independent instead of Republican?

    By trying to throw out a ballot that is folded when that is fine?

    Sorry, it sounds like a lot of people that don't know what they are doing trying to throw out every ballot ham-handedly. They are there to observe and record, not to go over every ballot with a magnifying glass.

    After the process they could report things they found, not slow down the whole thing by questioning everything.
     
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  7. lasthero

    lasthero Newbie

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    No, it sounds like Trump supporters are being babies and slowing up the process in a desperate attempt to stall. Complaining about folded ballots...coming out of envelopes. Oh, and let's not forget pretending to be independents so they have more than one person at a table.

    For all the winging, you'll note they haven't found anything of any substance yet. All it's doing is slowing down the process.
     
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  8. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    You probably think that not unfolding the ballot so that the vote can be seen is the proper way to do a recount, huh?

    To quote someone else, "C'mon, man." ^_^
     
  9. lasthero

    lasthero Newbie

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    That's not what was said.
    The observer was objecting to the ballots just because they were folded, not because they weren't being unfolded. As if the mere fact that they were folded was a problem.

    Wisconsin officials: Trump observers obstructing recount
     
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  10. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Is this a game or a vote? Someone forgot to fill in information that the clerk can find out. Why should that cause us to ignore their vote? And why change the procedure for this election?
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020 at 10:58 AM
  11. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    As I said before. You cannot see the vote if the ballot isn't unfolded. To object to being asked to put the ballot into the same form it had when it was originally cast and then when it was counted, is not done except to shield it from being viewed.
     
  12. lasthero

    lasthero Newbie

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    #2, actually, and no - the observers objection wasn't that he couldn't see the ballots, but that the ballot was folded. He could see the ballot just fine - he was claiming that a ballot being folded was somehow a problem.

    Hint: IT'S NOT.
     
  13. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

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  14. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

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    The Trump people simply can't accept the fact that the voters have spoken and he lost. End of story.

    Hang in there people. In less than two months Biden will be President and Trump (and his family) will be in court.
     
  15. Hans Blaster

    Hans Blaster Well-Known Member

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    Wisconsin clerks altered ballot information according to guidance

    As quoted in the article:
    In other words, the clerks did nothing improper or illegal and were making the best effort to make sure that every ballot that was submitted could be counted. This is the same things the election officials do at the polling place when they check that your address is current, etc. The main difference is that *they* are the witnesses that the voter casting the ballot is on the rolls and only votes once.
     
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  16. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Election officials are not at liberty to alter ballots on their own initiative, and that goes for the necessary, identifying information required on the security envelope.
     
  17. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Why not? They were advised by the state that it was appropriate. The reason is that the goal is to get peoples vote. If you can get missing information by a phone call or other means there is no reason not to do it. We should never throw away votes unless there is reason to think they are fraudulent. As far as I can tell no actual ballots were altered.
     
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  18. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

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    There's one more issue: If you're going to change the rules in a way that will disqualify votes, you can't do it in just Democratic areas. There was a Supreme Court case about that in Florida in the Bush election. They prohibited a recount that had exactly the same goals: to be stricter just in areas that favored one party.
     
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  19. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Elections should be conducted fairly. And ballots are indeed invalidated when the voter makes a mistake. This is how it always has been.

    It is not the job of the election worker, an identified Republican or Democrat, to change ballots on their own initiative, whether or not they say they're doing someone a favor.

    But beyond that, it is perfectly obvious that in Wisconsin the election workers are attempting to obstruct the recount process by complaining that the observers wanted them, the election officials, to do their job! If they had nothing to hide, they'd of course unfold the ballot so it could be seen.
     
  20. Paulos23

    Paulos23 Never tell me the odds!

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    No, they are trying to throw out ballots that come out of the bag or box folded, even though they are unfolding them to count them.

    Read the article.
     
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