Will you let the bible ...

[fhansen]

You said that He could be an all-powerful bad God.

Sure, sorta like Stalin

 

[Hammster]

Sure, sorta like Stalin

Dang. Now God is like Stalin. This just get worse and worse.

 

[fhansen]

Dang. Now God is like Stalin. This just get worse and worse.

No, you're getting worse and worse. And you can do better than this conversation The point is that power itself does not guarantee goodness. duh

 

[Hammster]

No, you're getting worse and worse. And you can do better than this conversation The point is that power itself does not guarantee goodness. duh

You keep implying (if not outright saying) that God chooses to be good. And then you compared Him to Stalin.

 

[fhansen]

I implied no such thing.. So why don't we move on, perhaps to something more sane

 

[Hammster]

So what are we move on, perhaps to something more sane

Your view of God seems so skewed, I’m not sure we can.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Rough, huh! Well, he owns us and can do as he wishes.

This life was never intended for this life.

I would not be proud of those words.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Didn’t the people in the flood die?

The story says that they did.

It's not a happy story.

 

[fhansen]

Your view of God seems so skewed, I’m not sure we can.

My view of God is that God is love and He acts accordingly. What could possibly be skewed about that???

 

[Hammster]

The story says that they did.

It's not a happy story.

That depends.

 

[Hammster]

My view of God is that God is love and He acts accordingly. What could possibly be skewed about that???

You think He could choose otherwise.

 

[fhansen]

You think He could choose otherwise.

No, I said there's nothing inherent in being a creator-god that means that he couldn't be evil, or something other than love IOW

 

[Hammster]

No, I said there's nothing inherent in being a creator-god that means that he couldn't be evil, or something other than love IOW

Which is still problematic because you either ignore His other attributes, or He elevates one over the others.

 

[fhansen]

Which is still problematic because you either ignore His other attributes, or He elevates one over the others.

oh, ok

 

[Clare73]

sacrifice is not mercy

Au contraire. . .there is much of the NT about which you seem to be uninformed.

"Forgive" is an accounting term, meaning "payment/cancellation of debt."
God's forgiveness is cancellation of our sin debt, where in mercy he provided payment of our debt by the sacrifice of his own Son.

"God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement (whom God set forth a propitiation; i.e., mercy) through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished--he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as
to be just (requiring payment) and the one who justifies (makes payment; makes righteous) those who have faith in Jesus." (Romans 3:25-26).

Sacrifice is mercy when that sacrifice saves me from having to pay my own sin debt; i.e., eternal punishment (Matthew 25:46).

Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Context of Hosea 6:6? . . .God desired mercy (obedience), not insincere sacrifices (by the disobedient).

​

 

[Clare73]

Alright, so you acknowedge that we're changed, for the better, that we now have a righteousness that we didn't possess before, rather than a strictly declared righteousness.

I'm thinking Mark Quayle acknowledged no such thing when the NT teaches in Romans 4:1-11 that we have the same declared righteousness (justification); i.e., imputed (reckoned/credited) righteousness, as did Abraham in Genesis 15:6.

And since that justification is by faith--which is repentance, changing of one's mind/life and believing God, their life following shows it.

 

[Clare73]

And yet everything God does must be be for the greatest good, for the good of His creation, in order to be consistent with the God revealed by Jesus.

And you know that God's greatest good is his creation, how?
You know that God does not have a higher good than creation; i.e., his glory, how?

 

[fhansen]

And you know that God's greatest good is his creation, how?
You know that God does not have a higher good than creation, how?

I don't know, that's not what I said

 

[fhansen]

I'm thinking Mark Quayle acknowledged no such thing when the NT teaches in Romans 4:1-11 that we have the same declared righteousness (justification); i.e., imputed/reckoned/credited righteousness, as did Abraham in Genesis 15:6.

well, that's sort of strange then because he's talked about the justified person behaving better

 

[Clare73]

And James further clarifies that faith and works cannot be separate:
"You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone."

Yes, a person is declared righteous (justified) by true faith, not counterfeit faith.
And true faith must have works or it is not true faith,
but it is not true faith's works which make righteous (justify),
it is true faith by itself, apart from its necessary works, which justifies (Romans 3:28).

And in addition to the declared imputed (reckoned/credited) righteousness of justification by faith (Romans 4:11) apart from works (Romans 3:28), there is also the righteousness of sanctification by obedience in the Holy Spirit, which leads to righteousness leading to holiness (Romans 6:16-19).