Will we be vegetarians in eternity?

DavidPT

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If you walk through the desert, will physical/literal snakes and scorpions clear a path for you and not hurt you because you are a servant of God? HA! Come on! Not at all, and this is NOT what Christ is teaching here! Listen...being bitten by a snake is not the force of the enemy that Christ gives us power over. The power of the enemy Jesus speaks about here is the power of that Scorpion from the pit and that old Serpent Satan. In other words, the false doctrine! Those who are spiritually serpents and scorpions (those of Satan) are the ones who God is teaching cannot harm us. Yes, even today we have some misguided souls, Christians going around handling snakes because they can't see the forest for the trees. The truth is, God has given us safety from the antichrist spirit Satan, who desires to deceive, seduce and devour us.

Acts 28:3 And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand.
4 And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live.
5 And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm.
6 Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god.

What this account appears to prove, some of these things can be pertaining to both the spirititual and literal at the same time. Yet you act as if some of these things can only be applied spiritually.

As to Isaiah 2 since that has also been brought up. This is what Isaiah 2:4 records.

Isaiah 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.


And this is what Matthew 24 records.

Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars : see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

We then end up with this if both are true at the same time.


neither shall they learn war any more---And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars

nation shall not lift up sword against nation---For nation shall rise against nation

Obviously, these things are contradictory if we apply them to the same era of time. Amils think the solution is this, simply apply Isaiah 2:4 in a spiritual sense involving those saved within the church, thus it being these that shall learn war no more. Except that doesn't take this into account, though---nation shall not lift up sword against nation

What should we take nation to mean in this context? Probably the same thing we should take nation to mean in Matthew 24:7. And what did Jesus say in that verse? Did He not say this---For nation shall rise against nation? Which means He did not say this instead---nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more---since that would obviously contradict what He just said in verse 6 and 7.

nation shall not lift up sword against nation. This requires at the minimum at least 2 nations no longer doing this. And if this is applicable to this age as Amils would have us believe, which two nations on the planet have fulfilled this where those two nations learn war no more?
 
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TribulationSigns

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Acts 28:3 And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand.
4 And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live.
5 And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm.
6 Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god.

What this account appears to prove, some of these things can be pertaining to both the spirititual and literal at the same time. Yet you act as if some of these things can only be applied spiritually.

Obviously spiritually! Please read the whole context (verses 1-10), It is a PORTRAIT of the Millennial reign, the barbarous people illustrating the Gentiles, and the fact that beliefs cannot be harmed by the serpent Satan, as they spend 3 days in the purpose of God in healing the sick! This all point to the millennial kingdom where Gentiles can be saved like Paul and will not be harmed by the vipers. Much like the portrait illustrated when Christ sent the seventy out as Two Witnesses and they could not be harmed by serpents and scorpions, or Mark Chapter 16 where Christ promises believers to have the power over serpents and healing the sick... SPIRITUALLY!

Are you going to suggest that the viper biting incident with Paul is a literal narrative and should be understood literally so that all and every Christian on Earth will automatically be immune to snake bites? Or did Christ paint a bigger picture here using the incident as an example? Think about it.

Speaking of vipers, have you thought about why Christ was comparing the unbelieving Jews to the generation of vipers? Did Christ talk about literal vipers or people "as" vipers? Christ was saying that they were under the influence of Satan who refuse to receive the Word of God. Therefore, the vipers are type of unbelieving people. They bite Paul but he will not be harmed because he is believer. So the healing to the Gentiles on the island for 3 days signifies that God will save the Gentiles and that they too will not be harmed by the snakes as well. This is the picture of salvation extended to the Gentiles. Selah.


As to Isaiah 2 since that has also been brought up. This is what Isaiah 2:4 records.

Isaiah 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.


And this is what Matthew 24 records.

Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars : see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

We then end up with this if both are true at the same time.

No. They are not talking about the "same" war at the same time. I am sorry but you were quoting controversial Isaiah 2 which I believe is almost universally MISUNDERSTOOD to mean a "future" event. Partly because we live in an "instant gratification" society that can't see the forest for the trees. I will deal with Isaiah 2 for the next couple of post, then deal with Matthew 24 later.
But the "context" is the last days (which is the whole New Testament period according to scripture) and the establishment of God's kingdom (which was at the time of the cross), and the cessation of warfare (which is also of Christ, the Prince of Peace). The problem (as I see it) is that people continually err in trying to look at prophesy as a physical/literal narrative. Worldly wars to cease, earthly kingdoms and thrones, physical lands, it is usually always the same error. A lack of understanding that scripture interprets scripture and that God speaks in symbolism. We pick up the context from verse 1.

Isaiah 2:1-4
  • "The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
  • And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
  • And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
  • And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."
I believe that these passages speak not of universal peace on earth in the future, nor in heaven at Christ's second coming, but to the prophecies of Christ's first advent. The last days are actually the whole New Testament period, the new dispensation of Christ's Kingdom.

Acts 2:16-17
  • "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
  • And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:"
The last days encompass the whole New Testament period, and was established in Christ's millennial Kingdom reign, and signified by the sign wonders at Pentecost. That is when the Mountain (kingdom) of the Lord's house was established over all kingdoms, and the nations or Gentiles began to flow into it like you and I have. This is wherein the King or ruler of this Kingdom brought peace to the whole earth (as opposed to primarily Israel) and established judgment within the nations. This is how He ended their warfare. It is all pointing to the establishment of Christ's millennial kingdom reign, which is now. You may be able to see this a little clearer if we go about it systematically, letting scripture interpret itself.

Now, I will show a brief but lengthy overview of Isaiah 2:4 to give you a better understanding of what God actually talks about.
 
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TribulationSigns

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Isa 2:4
(4) And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

1. And he shall judge among the nations

To judge among the nations is illustrating that Christ will set up his Kingdom among all nations of the world, that it will no longer be primarily national Israel. Christ judges the nations as sovereign ruler, governing all matters of God's law. Thus to judge among the nations means there will be a new dispensation, that Christ's kingdom will go to all, and He will sit as judge or ruler of all nations. Judgment is His rule of law, and the rule is judgment. for example, even as the Judges God appointed in the Old Testament God were the rulers. Indeed it was for the purpose of executing this rule or judgment that Christ came. His Judging among the nations is in His establishing the kingdom that goes forth executing rule. And in order to do this, Satan, who rules over the nations, had to be defeated for man's sake.

Jeremiah 23:5-6
  • "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
  • In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS."
Executing judgment in the earth is the rule in the Millennial reign of Christ (which is the New Testament Period), not something future or after Christ's second coming. And those who serve Christ are given this judgment in Him. Right now.

Revelation 20:3-4
  • "And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
  • And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."
Along with the coming of this Millennial Kingdom of Christ wherein the nations were enlightened, also came rule or judgment. The rule of God's law and the judgment of the Word. This is not something that is to come in the future, but that has already been accomplished by Christ. Even as Christ Himself explained.

John 12:31
  • "Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out."
By whom? Judgment by Christ, that Satan's house or kingdom is being spoiled by the onslaught of this kingdom. So strong that the gates of Satan's prison house are not able to prevent Christ's church from being built in those Satan held captive (Hebrews 2:14-15). Selah! The nations are being judged among (even as Revelation 20 illustrated) by the advancement of the Kingdom rule. As it was prophesied by God.

Isaiah 42:3-7
  • "bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
  • He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.
  • Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
  • I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
  • To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house."
Judgment is established in the earth by Christ so that out of the dark prison house of Satan's kingdom comes the spoil. In other words, the gates of Satan's house cannot prevent the Kingdom of Christ from being advanced among the nations or gentiles. This is the Millennial reign and clearly, this speaks of Christ. It declares that He is the one that shall bring forth rule or judgment unto truth. What is being illustrated is a new prevalence of Christian principles among the nations or gentiles is established through the Kingdom of Christ. Indeed, it is written of Him:

Matthew 12:18
  • "Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles."
So it is perfectly clear that when God prophesies that he shall judge among the nations (Gentiles), it speaks of this same prophesy. This same establishment of Christ's Kingdom. Christ not only binds Satan so that these nations not be deceived but brings His law to the nations, convincing their consciences by changing their hearts so that they are no longer deceived.


2. Rebuke many People

Too often today's puffed-up Christians "full of themselves" look upon Biblical rebuke as an "attack" when it is often simply a correction, which I saw often here! By God's corrections, rebukes or warnings of judgment He brings nations all over the world into subjection under His rule. Often how one reacts to this correction depends upon in what spirit they have received it.

Proverbs 9:8
  • "Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee."
As God says, "correction is grievous unto him that forsakes the way, and he that hates reproof shall die" (Proverbs 15:10). Rebuke or reproof in the Word is how God corrects, and unfortunately too many do not want to hear it. I'm sure most of us have heard professed Christians, having been quoted scripture, say that "..if that is the type of God you serve, I want no part of Him." Or "...if that is the type of interpretation you use to spiritualize things, I want no part of it!." Sounds familiar? That's because they don't like what "That God" has to say. They want another god, another Christ, another gospel, or literal interpretation, wherein they can have it their own way. They scoff and even bristle at the rebuke of God. Nevertheless, here and there, there are those elect of the nations, who will respond differently to God's rebukes. The rebuke of nations by God is not to their shame, but to their glory. He rebukes many nations so that they may acknowledge their sins, and turn to him. And to be sure, the election will. And these rebukes by God are often testified to by God's servants.

2nd Timothy 4:2
  • "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine."
Indeed, Christ commissioned his apostles, and indeed all God's servants (True Christians) to teach all nations, and this teaching is Christ's rebuke of the world and its glory. A rebuke of ungodliness and unlawfulness that is so lacking in our day. So while most people look at rebuke as a bad thing, sometimes in scripture God uses it as a synonym for convicting someone of truth, or to convince by the word, or to patiently rebuke doctrinal faults. When God said to Peter, "get thee behind me Satan," it was not to attack him, but to correct his beliefs. For God loves whom He rebukes, and we should have that exact same love for our fellow man.

Titus 1:13
  • "This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;"
Titus 2:15
  • "These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee."
Even as God rebukes unto salvation, so the servants of God, themselves made to reign in His kingdom, rebuke, that many might be zealous, repent with zeal, and live with Godly enthusiasm.

Revelation 3:19
  • "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent."
As illustrated in Revelation chapter 20, in establishing His Kingdom rule God binds Satan that the nations won't be deceived. And it is then that He rebukes the nations so that they might also acknowledge their sins and return to the communion with God man had in the garden of Eden. As many as He loves He rebukes and chastens, just as He did with Israel. His pleasure is that the nations would be zealous and repent that He might have a people from all kindreds and tongues and nations. Even as Christ said so very plainly in His holy word, was what He came to do.

John 16:7-11
  • "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
  • And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
  • Of sin, because they believe not on me;
  • Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
  • Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged."
This is saying the exact same thing that Isaiah 2:4 says in Him judging among the nations, and rebuking many people. We just have to have our ears Spiritually tuned to receive what is being said!! His rebuke is by His Word and His Spirit, convincing the nations of its sin, repentance and forgiveness.

3. Beat their swords into Plowshares & Spears into Pruninghooks

God prophesies here that the law, the word of God, shall go out from the Holy City, and would judge the nations that these people would change their implements of war into implements of peace. A sword is an instrument used for war, and the plowshare is a type of hoe used for digging and is an instrument for farming in agriculture. Obverse carefully:

1st Corinthians 3:7-9
  • "So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
  • Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
  • For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building."
God is equating HIS PEOPLE of His kingdom to those with plowshares who plant for the Lord! Just as the Kingdom of God is likened unto a sower who plants seed that it brings forth fruit. This signifies the kingdom of God going forth to the world, as plantings that are cared for and nourished so that they might grow. In like manner, a spear is an instrument of war, while a pruninghook is an instrument used for plants. It is a knife-like instrument for pruning plants that they might grow better. Again, this signifies that these people will turn from being at spiritually war with God, to being spiritual husbandmen (farmers) working in His garden to care for the fruit of the field. Beating their swords into plowshares means they will abstain from warfare against God and exercise Godly charity (Agape) in well doing to others! This is how we win souls for God by working in his land (world) to plant seeds to bring forth fruits. The fruits are the newly saved people and being spiritually nurtured as we, as Christians, were sent to help plant with the plowshares and pruninghooks! We were no longer fighting God with a sword as sinners, but willing to work in the field for God as He turned our weapons into tools of salvation! Spiritually speaking! That is what we are doing today and have been since Pentecost! Not about some future kingdom where we will physically labor in the field for fruit to eat.

(Contiune to next post)
 
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TribulationSigns

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4. Nation Shall Not Lift Up Sword Against Nation

As I explained above, before we became saved, we were at war with God, nation against nation, Kingdom against Kingdom, and our instruments of warfare were spiritual. God's kingdom comes by the Spirit of Christ with the sword of the Word of God. And the nation at enmity with it comes by the spirit of Antichrist with the Word of Satan. An epic battle between two nations that have been fought since the garden of Eden. Indeed, it is signified in

Genesis 25:23-26
  • "And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.
  • And when her days to be delivered were fulfilled, behold, there were twins in her womb.
  • And the first came out red, all over like an hairy garment; and they called his name Esau.
  • And after that came his brother out, and his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob: and Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them."
This signified the two nations that are at war with each other. The nation Jacob, whom God loves because he represents the kingdom of God, and the nation Esau whom God hates because he represents the Kingdom of Satan. Get it? These two nations struggle against each other even as Jacob and Esau struggled in the womb. Because they are at enmity with one another.

Matthew 12:24-26
  • "But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
  • And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
  • And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?"
Christ is at enmity with Satan, and his kingdom with Christ's. Two nations are as diverse as the two nations struggling within Rebekah. But Christ came to spoil that kingdom, to prevail over its gates, to deliver these people that the nations would not be at enmity, and Satan could not deceive them and prevent him from taking them by conquest. For example, He came with the prophesied establishment of the Kingdom of God to make peace between the nations.

Matthew 12:28-30
  • "But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
  • Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
  • He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad."
In other words, in the coming of the Millennial kingdom of God, Satan had to "FIRST" be bound so that he could not deceive the nations any longer. This is what Revelation 20 talks about! That is the act of Christ that caused the nations to put away their swords. And that caused them to go into the business of plowing and pruning as Husbandmen for God. That they would be nations that would never again lift up swords against this nation. Two Kingdoms at odds with each other, two nations that cannot normally co-exist together, but when Christ binds Satan that the nations are not deceived, it is all different. He brings peace (salvation, not world peace) with the nations, having them join Him in communion.

1st Peter 2:9-10
  • "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
  • Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy."
There is the Holy nation that the Gentiles do not war with anymore. It is now God's Holy nation. The nations (or gentiles) are now coming INTO this Holy Nation as Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise!

Ezekiel 37:21-24
  • "And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
  • And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
  • Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
  • And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them."
5. Neither Learn War Anymore

In Messiah's Kingdom reign, there shall be war no more. War is the opposite of peace, and is what we are when we are unsaved and at enmity with God. By the same token, when we are translated from the gates of the prison of darkness, into the Kingdom of Christ, our warfare is ended by the Prince of Peace. We are not battling with that nation anymore, we forsake such warfare governed by the Prince of Peace, with God. Even as prophesied.

Isaiah 40:1-3
  • "Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God.
  • Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD'S hand double for all her sins.
  • The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God."

Clearly this spoke of the first advent of Christ, and the spiritual warfare of a nation that has been brought to peace with God, through Christ. This is something that happened long ago, not something to come.

Colossians 1:19-21
  • "For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell;
  • And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
  • And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled."

The warfare is accomplished, we have been reconciled to God, brought peace, through Christ. We are comforted (Isaiah 40:1-3) because we have come unto this Holy nation, this holy city, this spiritual Jerusalem that would not learn war anymore. And it is a holy nation and city made up of Jews and Gentiles, Greeks and Romans, whites and blacks, old and young, all who have traded in their swords for plowshares. All who substitute enmity against God with ministering in the kingdom of Christ as sowers, planters and builders.

So Isaiah 2:4 has nothing whatsoever to do with pie in the sky ideas of the world becoming Christianized, or there being physical peace all over the earth for 1,000 literal years because Christ sits in the Middle East, or the afterlife, etc. It speaks of Christ's first advent, and the imagery is illustrating the establishment of the Millennial Kingdom of peace and safety, of building and planting, of salvation to the nations during the whole New Testament period. It speaks to the calling of the Gentile nations and the spread of the kingdom all over the earth. Period.

Not the heathen, but from among the heathen. They have strayed in forsaking God, but they were always the election, chosen unto salvation. The gates of hell cannot hold them when Christ's kingdom comes against those gates. So that never again will the nation be at odds with nation when they are reconciled in Christ. Selah!
 
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DavidPT

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Obviously spiritually! Please read the whole context (verses 1-10), It is a PORTRAIT of the Millennial reign, the barbarous people illustrating the Gentiles, and the fact that beliefs cannot be harmed by the serpent Satan, as they spend 3 days in the purpose of God in healing the sick! This all point to the millennial kingdom where Gentiles can be saved like Paul and will not be harmed by the vipers. Much like the portrait illustrated when Christ sent the seventy out as Two Witnesses and they could not be harmed by serpents and scorpions, or Mark Chapter 16 where Christ promises believers to have the power over serpents and healing the sick... SPIRITUALLY!

Are you going to suggest that the viper biting incident with Paul is a literal narrative and should be understood literally so that all and every Christian on Earth will automatically be immune to snake bites? Or did Christ paint a bigger picture here using the incident as an example? Think about it.

Speaking of vipers, have you thought about why Christ was comparing the unbelieving Jews to the generation of vipers? Did Christ talk about literal vipers or people "as" vipers? Christ was saying that they were under the influence of Satan who refuse to receive the Word of God. Therefore, the vipers are type of unbelieving people. They bite Paul but he will not be harmed because he is believer. So the healing to the Gentiles on the island for 3 days signifies that God will save the Gentiles and that they too will not be harmed by the snakes as well. This is the picture of salvation extended to the Gentiles. Selah.




No. They are not talking about the "same" war at the same time. I am sorry but you were quoting controversial Isaiah 2 which I believe is almost universally MISUNDERSTOOD to mean a "future" event. Partly because we live in an "instant gratification" society that can't see the forest for the trees. I will deal with Isaiah 2 for the next couple of post, then deal with Matthew 24 later.
But the "context" is the last days (which is the whole New Testament period according to scripture) and the establishment of God's kingdom (which was at the time of the cross), and the cessation of warfare (which is also of Christ, the Prince of Peace). The problem (as I see it) is that people continually err in trying to look at prophesy as a physical/literal narrative. Worldly wars to cease, earthly kingdoms and thrones, physical lands, it is usually always the same error. A lack of understanding that scripture interprets scripture and that God speaks in symbolism. We pick up the context from verse 1.

Isaiah 2:1-4
  • "The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
  • And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
  • And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
  • And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."
I believe that these passages speak not of universal peace on earth in the future, nor in heaven at Christ's second coming, but to the prophecies of Christ's first advent. The last days are actually the whole New Testament period, the new dispensation of Christ's Kingdom.

Acts 2:16-17
  • "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
  • And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:"
The last days encompass the whole New Testament period, and was established in Christ's millennial Kingdom reign, and signified by the sign wonders at Pentecost. That is when the Mountain (kingdom) of the Lord's house was established over all kingdoms, and the nations or Gentiles began to flow into it like you and I have. This is wherein the King or ruler of this Kingdom brought peace to the whole earth (as opposed to primarily Israel) and established judgment within the nations. This is how He ended their warfare. It is all pointing to the establishment of Christ's millennial kingdom reign, which is now. You may be able to see this a little clearer if we go about it systematically, letting scripture interpret itself.

Now, I will show a brief but lengthy overview of Isaiah 2:4 to give you a better understanding of what God actually talks about.

Just for the record, in the event it is not clear, I'm not arguing against 'spiritually' since I agree that some of these things are meaning in that sense. I'm just pointing out that in some cases it can mean in both senses, spiritually and literally.

And here is another example where it can pertain to both senses.

Matthew 10:8---raise the dead---

raise the dead--this can mean both literally and spiritually. If applying spiritually it might be something like the following.

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Just because I'm Premil and believe the thousand years are meaning after the 2nd coming rather than before, this doesn't mean I'm unable to spiritually discern things, that I take everything in the literal sense all the time. Which then probably begs the question, why take the thousand years in the literal sense since I'm able to discern other passages spiritually? To try and answer that, take the following, for example.


Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.


The times of restitution of all things is meaning once this happens---And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you. Which then means one needs to do the following now, in this present age, prior to the 2nd coming involving verse 20----Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out. And as to verse 21---Whom the heaven must receive until---is obviously pertaining to His ascension. Which then means to me that there has to be prophecies recorded in the OT involving this---the times of restitution of all things---except most Amils have a habit of applying some or most of those prophecies to the here and now rather than during the times of restitution of all things. IMO, the times of restitution of all things fit the thousand years.
 
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TribulationSigns

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Just for the record, in the event it is not clear, I'm not arguing against 'spiritually' since I agree that some of these things are meaning in that sense. I'm just pointing out that in some cases it can mean in both senses, spiritually and literally.
Hold it. Please stay with Isaiah 2 okay. You asked me about it and I have explained it with tons of Scripture supporting God's interpretation. Yet you went all over the bible searching for different verses not related to Isaiah 2 and tried to make the justification so that we can understand the verses you quoted literally and spiritually. What are you doing?? If you can't refute what I wrote about Isaiah 2, don't change the subject. Deal with it and show me why I am wrong and explain your understanding of Isaiah 2 itself and how you can compare it with the rest of Scripture.
 
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DavidPT

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Hold it. Please stay with Isaiah 2 okay. You asked me about it and I have explained it with tons of Scripture supporting God's interpretation. Yet you went all over the bible searching for different verses not related to Isaiah 2 and tried to make the justification so that we can understand the verses you quoted literally and spiritually. What are you doing?? If you can't refute what I wrote about Isaiah 2, don't change the subject. Deal with it and show me why I am wrong and explain your understanding of Isaiah 2 itself and how you can compare it with the rest of Scripture.

Except I have already proved via another post that your interpretation of Isaiah 2:4 can't be correct since Jesus in Matthew 24 indicates that before He returns, things will be the opposite of what Isaiah 2:4 records. Instead of this prior to Him returning---nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more---He indicates it will be like this instead--- And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars---For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom

Both can't be true at the same time---nation shall not lift up sword against nation---nation shall rise against nation---since that is a contradiction. Why is it that some Amils can't seem to grasp what a contradiction means? How can nation shall not lift up sword against nation be the same thing as nation shall rise against nation? It would have to be the same thing otherwise it is a contradiction. And since it is not the same thing it is a contradiction if both are true at the same time. The way to make the contradiction go away is simple. One is involving this age prior to His return, the other is involving another age after He has returned.
 
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Except I have already proved via another post that your interpretation of Isaiah 2:4 can't be correct since Jesus in Matthew 24 indicates that before He returns, things will be the opposite of what Isaiah 2:4 records. Instead of this prior to Him returning---nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more---He indicates it will be like this instead--- And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars---For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom

Both can't be true at the same time---nation shall not lift up sword against nation---nation shall rise against nation---since that is a contradiction. Why is it that some Amils can't seem to grasp what a contradiction means? How can nation shall not lift up sword against nation be the same thing as nation shall rise against nation? It would have to be the same thing otherwise it is a contradiction. And since it is not the same thing it is a contradiction if both are true at the same time. The way to make the contradiction go away is simple. One is involving this age prior to His return, the other is involving another age after He has returned.
Exactly.
 
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Jamdoc

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Except I have already proved via another post that your interpretation of Isaiah 2:4 can't be correct since Jesus in Matthew 24 indicates that before He returns, things will be the opposite of what Isaiah 2:4 records. Instead of this prior to Him returning---nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more---He indicates it will be like this instead--- And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars---For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom

Both can't be true at the same time---nation shall not lift up sword against nation---nation shall rise against nation---since that is a contradiction. Why is it that some Amils can't seem to grasp what a contradiction means? How can nation shall not lift up sword against nation be the same thing as nation shall rise against nation? It would have to be the same thing otherwise it is a contradiction. And since it is not the same thing it is a contradiction if both are true at the same time. The way to make the contradiction go away is simple. One is involving this age prior to His return, the other is involving another age after He has returned.

They'll say that's Satan's little season I guess, but I agree, the world is conforming to a futurist interpretation not a post millennial or amillennial.
 
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TribulationSigns

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Except I have already proved via another post that your interpretation of Isaiah 2:4 can't be correct since Jesus in Matthew 24 indicates that before He returns, things will be the opposite of what Isaiah 2:4 records. Instead of this prior to Him returning---nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more---He indicates it will be like this instead--- And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars---For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom

I can see why one with lack of spiritual discernment cannot understand what wars did Christ talk about in Matthew 24. He was NOT talking bout physical wars here! He was not talking about physical swords, guns, tanks, or missiles here! God was not talking about geopolitical nations here! Not in vain worse, self-justification and worldly notions of wars, rumors of wars and plots of Earth in the Middle East.

For example, the sign of famine is representing the famine of hearing the word of God, and not being hungry for a hamburger from McDonald's. The sign of stars falling are of messengers of the churches, not literal suns coming crashing on Earth. The signs of wormwood are the poisoned churches with false doctrine, not malaria in the Amazon river. The sign of serpents and scorpions the minions of Satan - the false prophets and christ, not literal animals on the ground. The plagues and pestilence go back to the plagues in Egypt when they wouldn't let God's people go, etc., etc. The signs are all around us, and only those with the Spirit of God to discern unfaithfulness from faithfulness will see them. While the rest, like many people here, are looking at national Israel, physical wars and rumors of literal wars, global warming, literal locusts literally coming out of human's mouth, Temple buildings, etc., looking in all the wrong places. It is not about Israel or Russia. It is about GOD'S CONGREGATION where the judgment takes place - that is where the signs are pointing to!

Ezekiel 9:6
  • "Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house."
1st Peter 4:17
  • "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?"

It's a just, righteous and general principle!

It is because the people living at this time see two opposing conditions. Which condition one sees depends upon if they are truly born from above in Christ, or if they are merely professing Christians. For one, it is seen as Peace and Safety in the church, and to the other it is much reviling, trials and great tribulation in the church. What condition one sees is dependent upon if they can see the 'signs' of the times.

Luke 21:25
  • "And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;"
Not everyone will see these signs. many will be looking for physical signs, physical stars falling, etc. The signs are Spiritual in nature. People like you tend to say, "it seems to prophecy of literal danger and trauma going on," but the operative word there is 'seems' to be physical danger. There are two things to consider. If these signs were physical, they would be no signs at all, because we always have and always will have great earthquakes, famines, wars and rumors of wars. These aren't Biblical SIGNS at all, they are normative for the world! There are those Christians who add that this must then be speaking of really massive physical signs so that they're not normative. But if that were the case, then again we have a contradiction, because then everyone would see the signs and it could "NEVER" be business as usual (as required by these scriptures). No, the only way to understand these signs is the way God intended them to be understood. By comparing scripture with scripture and letting God be the interpreter. Then we see that the only way that some see these signs and others do not (business as usual) is by understanding the symbolic nature of the scriptures. Understanding which comes only in the mind of Christ. Spiritual signs revealed in symbolic language.

Matthew 24:15
  • "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )"
He who reads, let him "understand." That's key to understanding what we are reading!! Here is wisdom, he who hath "Understanding" let him count the number of the beast (revelation 13:18). i.e., when you shall "SEE" the abomination stand in the Holy place, means not everyone will see it. Only those who have the mind of Christ has this wisdom and understanding required to "see" these great signs. The wars, the famine, the stars falling and the waves f the sea roaring.

Ephesians 1:17-18
  • "That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
  • The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
For example, "wisdom and understanding" to count the number of the beast are by the revelation of God to His symbolism and the spiritual nature of His gospel message. Not listening to some wacko on YouTube with different imaginations of what the mark of the beast looks like depending on what new technology coming up. Come on!

In truth, this language of Matthew is really just the REGULAR cryptic or parabolic language that God has used throughout scripture (not just in Revelation, Ezekiel or Daniel). Some Christians like to wax poetic about literalism, but in truth God has "always" used the spiritual, allegorical, or symbolic language in His Holy Word. For example, John the Baptist was prophesied to come and straighten out highways. Did he physically straighten out highways from Jersualem to Caperemaium? Of course not. Christ was spoken of AS a Branch and a Rock, Satan AS a Serpent and Dragon, false prophets in the old testament like Isaiah were spoken of AS Wolves, Israel AS a Fig Tree, the two sons of Abraham AS the two covenants, etc., etc. The point is, some people act as if understanding the Spiritual nature of God's word is unbiblical when it is just the opposite! It's orthodox Christian teachings from the very beginning of the woman and the Serpent.

Likewise in Matthew, pestilences are the spiritual plagues God sends upon the church (Revelation 18:8 ) because of their unfaithfulness. Wars and rumors of wars illustrate the condition of the church in their departing from the faith. Selah! It is a 'spiritual warfare' in which if we are not prepared unto battle, they will loose both the battle, and their church.

Ephesians 6:11-18
  • "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
  • For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
  • Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
  • Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
  • And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
  • Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
  • And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
  • Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;"
The warfare which the majority of those in the church know NOTHING about, even though they've read it a hundred times and know exactly what it means. They still never make the connection between spiritual warfare in high places 'because' they cannot discern the signs of the times! Period! Listen, Kingdom against Kingdom is those of Christ against those of Satan. Ministers of two diverse kingdoms go to war for the possession of souls! But the people with their eyes on things of this earth, rather than on things above, look for wars in Russia and Ukraine, Israel and the Arabs, India, and Pakistan, or whatever flavor-of-the-month nation is in the news and happens to be in some physical battle. Because they cannot see the people for the trees!. And that is because they are "Spiritually" blind that they cannot discern that God said the trees represent men, and blindness represents the inability to discern, as in the story Jesus and the blind man shows, Mark 8:23-25. So when you read about the trees and all green things in Revelation, what do you think God actually talks about? The ones standing in the national forest, or people?
So no, the wars and rumors of war of Matthew 24 has NOTHING to do with your imagination of physical wars somewhere, but the spiritual war within God's congregation between His people and professed Christians. As a result, there is a spiritual famine and spiritual disease going on! Selah.

Both can't be true at the same time---nation shall not lift up sword against nation---nation shall rise against nation---since that is a contradiction. Why is it that some Amils can't seem to grasp what a contradiction means? How can nation shall not lift up sword against nation be the same thing as nation shall rise against nation? It would have to be the same thing otherwise it is a contradiction. And since it is not the same thing it is a contradiction if both are true at the same time. The way to make the contradiction go away is simple. One is involving this age prior to His return, the other is involving another age after He has returned.

Not only you misunderstood what God talked about but you also are working too hard figuring out how to apply certain verses, according to your timeline to fit your doctrine. :)
 
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TribulationSigns

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what an insufferable amount of pride.

No, how about more about being a faithful representation of God's Word out of my mouth that offends many? I have quoted tons of Scripture confirming what I said, yet you don't like it. People who are offended by my testimony tend to accuse me of pride, selfishness, insensitivity, unloving, etc. Just like the enemies did with Jesus because they did not like what they hear. Facts!

Whatever you think, the Lord judges, and I am comfortable with that. :)
 
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Jamdoc

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No, how about more about being a faithful representation of God's Word out of my mouth that offends many? I have quoted tons of Scripture confirming what I said, yet you don't like it. People who are offended by my testimony tend to accuse me of pride, selfishness, insensitivity, unloving, etc. Just like the enemies did with Jesus because they did not like what they hear. Facts!

Whatever you think, the Lord judges, and I am comfortable with that. :)
You always step forward inflating yourself, and putting down others, you don't just exposit scripture without putting down people prior.
 
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For example, the sign of famine is representing the famine of hearing the word of God, and not being hungry for a hamburger from McDonald's. The sign of stars falling are of messengers of the churches, not literal suns coming crashing on Earth. The signs of wormwood are the poisoned churches with false doctrine, not malaria in the Amazon river. The sign of serpents and scorpions the minions of Satan - the false prophets and christ, not literal animals on the ground. The plagues and pestilence go back to the plagues in Egypt when they wouldn't let God's people go, etc., etc. The signs are all around us, and only those with the Spirit of God to discern unfaithfulness from faithfulness will see them.

Huh. I had never heard this before and was pretty resistant at the start but you made a convincing argument. I'll give this some thought.

Not sure how we got here from "will we be vegetarians in eternity?" but I guess everything happens for a reason lol.
Btw, made this this evening for the missus and me, it was heavenly
 
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Huh. I had never heard this before and was pretty resistant at the start but you made a convincing argument. I'll give this some thought.

Only the Lord can grant your understanding so pray in earnest about it while you study with your Scrpture. I am only a vessel used by the Lord to preach HIS Gospel, the testimony of Jesus Christ. A testimony that will not change. Allow me to explain why it is important to have spiritual discernment.

He that is spiritual hears the things which are spiritual because it is the Spirit of God that reveals it to him. The Spirit of God in the believer is not an "idle, impotent or powerless" Spirit. This Spirit is active and guides us into understanding what nation/kingdom and war that Matthew 24 is really talking about.

John 16:13
  • "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."
There's no question that it will drive away a lot of professing Christians, but it will not drive away one single true Christian because they are sanctified by the spirit, and thus will believe the truth of the Holy word, which is Spiritual.

2nd Thessalonians 2:13
  • "But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:"
Because true believers have the spirit of truth "within" them setting them apart from the world of the unsaved, it gives them spiritual wisdom wherein they know truth from error. Indeed, we pray they will understand these Spiritual truths.

Colossians 1:9
  • "For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;"
It is good that you will give my explanation some thought but pray for wisdom from Christ. Therefore, when we speak the unadulterated, uncorrupted word from God, those who are of God know its truth or error and hear it because they have the Spirit of God. Without that Spirit, people will verbally hear us, but they do not "HEAR" God's word in the sense that they receive it as the authoritative truth that we bear witness of.

1st John 4:6
  • "We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error."
Now, let's look at the "example" God gives us in His own ministry. It was by His "SPIRITUALIZING" that He drove off a great multitude who wouldn't/couldn't receive or understand it. Remember when Jesus was there preaching a very spiritual sermon where He spoke about the necessity of man eating His flesh and drinking His blood in order to have everlasting life. Who was offended and walked away from Him? It was not the few true disciples, but those MANY who were merely "professing" to be His disciples. This spiritual truth offended many of them, but not the few.

Not coincidentally, their reaction was the same as the carnal "professed" Christians in the church, even on this very forum, today. Their reaction was to think this type of understanding was unlawful, foolishness, pride or allegorical nonsense. Sounds familiar with some people saying to me lately? So much so that most of them were driven away from Christ by it. The Scriptures say, after this, they continued no more with Him. Proving once again that the more things change, the more they remain the same. As saith the Preacher, "There is nothing new under the sun."

John 6:56-61
  • "He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
  • As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
  • This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
  • These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
  • Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
  • When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?"

Indeed it was and is a HARD (tough) saying, indeed it did offend many, and indeed who can hear or believe it? But only those led by the Spirit of truth can. But these spiritualized truths about eating His flesh offended them, even as it offends many calling themselves disciples of Christ today!! Because the Spirit alone makes us alive whereby we can receive this spiritual truths. It is only God who can draw men to understand the spiritual that they "receive" His word by the Spirit. The rest are driven off by such spiritualizing "because" they were not truly spiritual in the first place, but carnal. Christ continues:

John 6:65-66
  • "And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
  • From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him."
Jesus Christ took the time to preach a Blessed truth "spiritualizing" in speaking of Salvation as first requiring us to eat His flesh and drink His blood in order to obtain it. These professed disciples stumbled at that "spiritualizing" and were ultimately driven off by it. From that time, many walked no more with him. The old testament congregation of Israel is our example, but unfortunately very "few" are taking note of history repeating itself. Let us therefore not stumble after the way of Israel, looking to carnal flesh, for earthly kingdoms, earthly rules, earthly rumors of war, earthly governments, and Peace, shunning the Spiritual nature of Christ's true Kingdom.

So I asked myself this question..."shouldn't I be afraid that I might drive away a lot of Christians by my spiritualizing God's word?" The answer is NO! Why?

#1. It's not our spiritualizing, it's our testimony to God's Spiritualizing.

#2. Anyone driven off by God's Spiritualizing (as they were with Christ), are driven of their own disdain for His parables, imagery, symbolism and spiritual truths. It is from their own desires, carnality and worldliness, not by the word of the spirit and truth.

Colossians 1:9
  • "For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; "
So in order to understand what Christ talked about in Matthew 24 (or elsewhere) it may be wise to allow Scrpture to interpret Scripture to find God's interpretation instead of our own idea of physical nations and wars on what we hear in the media.

Not sure how we got here from "will we be vegetarians in eternity?" but I guess everything happens for a reason lol.
Btw, made this this evening for the missus and me, it was heavenly

The toast looks good. I get it. We can enjoy the benefit of foods that our bodies need NOW on this Earth on this side of Eternity. Unfouretntely, people get the wrong idea that we, somehow, will carry on with our hobbies and foods into the future New Earth and New Heaven where ALL FORMER THINGS pass away.
 
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DavidPT

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Jeremiah 23:5-6
  • "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
  • In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS."
Executing judgment in the earth is the rule in the Millennial reign of Christ (which is the New Testament Period), not something future or after Christ's second coming. And those who serve Christ are given this judgment in Him. Right now.

Revelation 20:3-4
  • "And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
  • And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."
Along with the coming of this Millennial Kingdom of Christ wherein the nations were enlightened, also came rule or judgment. The rule of God's law and the judgment of the Word. This is not something that is to come in the future, but that has already been accomplished by Christ. Even as Christ Himself explained.

Jeremiah 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.


To apply this to the here and now is not reasonable. Because, what justice is being executed in the earth? I don't see that happening in the earth, the fact there are crooked judges, crooked cops, crooked lawyers, crooked politicians, crooked media, so on and so on. But one thing you at least have correct, assuming I am understanding you correctly, you have Jeremiah 23:5 paralleling the time of satan's binding. And so does Premil if Premil has both Jeremiah 23:5 and the thousand years meaning after Christ has returned.

This is yet another example where Amils apply something to the here and now that doesn't fit with reality when all one has to do is compare with reality and easily see that justice isn't being executed in this earth yet. Let's just ignore reality, I guess.

Why not apply Jeremiah 23:5 to when the following is meaning instead?

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Which then leads to this era of time.

Zechariah 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.


The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever---And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Does not Revelation 11:15 involve the 7th trumpet? Surely you don't think the 7th trumpet has already sounded, right?

BTW, even when you divide your posts into multiple posts, each post is still somewhat rather lengthy, therefore, way too much for some of us to try and reply to.
 
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RevealedTruths

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We'll be like the angels, so no marriage or sex.
That verse about being like the angels means that in eternity, the rules of sexual partner competition will no longer apply. It doesn't mean that there will be no marriage / families / sex / children / intimacy. Fatherly and husbandly love are the image of God's love for man and Christ's love for His bride, the Church. If you are teaching that marriage and family will cease to exist in the age to come, you are literally saying that humans will cease to be made in God's image. Which is exactly what Satan's goal is - to destroy the image of God in man.
 
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Second Time is the Charm

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That verse about being like the angels means that in eternity, the rules of sexual partner competition will no longer apply. It doesn't mean that there will be no marriage / families / sex / children / intimacy. Fatherly and husbandly love are the image of God's love for man and Christ's love for His bride, the Church. If you are teaching that marriage and family will cease to exist in the age to come, you are literally saying that humans will cease to be made in God's image. Which is exactly what Satan's goal is - to destroy the image of God in man.
I'm going by what Jesus said in the Bible:

Matthew 22:29 Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

Jesus says you're wrong.
 
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Timtofly

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I'm going by what Jesus said in the Bible:

Matthew 22:29 Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

Jesus says you're wrong.
The point was that in sin the woman had 5 husbands.

From a practical standpoint procreation for all in heaven already happened on earth.

So filling up Paradise is not via procreation again in Paradise.

It is being filled up by procreation on earth. The caveat is that one must accept the gift of God to take one's place in the Garden where they would have had a place had Adam and Eve not disobeyed God once in the last 6,000 years.

Paradise has only been about one family and that of Adam and Eve. Not really millions of families, unless it had remained sin free.


Paradise now is serving God day and night in His Temple. All one equal and happy family. All equal sons of God, not individuals nor families. One house with many rooms, not necessarily a city with many houses, nor dormitories.
 
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Jamdoc

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The point was that in sin the woman had 5 husbands.

From a practical standpoint procreation for all in heaven already happened on earth.

So filling up Paradise is not via procreation again in Paradise.

It is being filled up by procreation on earth. The caveat is that one must accept the gift of God to take one's place in the Garden where they would have had a place had Adam and Eve not disobeyed God once in the last 6,000 years.

Paradise has only been about one family and that of Adam and Eve. Not really millions of families, unless it had remained sin free.


Paradise now is serving God day and night in His Temple. All one equal and happy family. All equal sons of God, not individuals nor families. One house with many rooms, not necessarily a city with many houses, nor dormitories.

To be honest, a quite depressing idea on eternity.
That's what Earthly kings did to their slaves, made them eunuchs so that they wouldn't be distracted and be totally focused on serving the king.

God and His millions and millions and millions of eunuch slaves, neutered so that all they know is being a slave.
Is that really what people look forward to?
 
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