Will there be a second chance for salvation after the Rapture?

[BABerean2]

Your argument and video are both completely in vain, in the face of the Scriptures taught by Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul, that destroy them. When are you going to stop denograting them, as well as the wisdom of the subject that has been given you in the OP? It's long past time for you to admit your views that call them liars, is in gross error.

Matthew 1:1

Matthew 3:9

John 10:16

Acts 2:36

Galatians 3:16

Hebrews 8:6-13

Hebrews 12:22-24

1 Timothy 1:4

Revelation 12:11

Jesus Christ is the ultimate fulfillment of Israel.
He is the "chief cornerstone" rejected by one nation in Matthew chapter 21, but accepted by another "Holy nation" in 1 Peter 2:4-10.

The 27 books known today as "The New Testament" are a collection of books about the New Covenant that was promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34.

The whole Bible is a book about Jesus Christ. He said so in His own words on the road to Emmaus. John 1:1, Luke 24:27

 

[Quasar92]

Matthew 1:1

Matthew 3:9

John 10:16

Acts 2:36

Galatians 3:16

Hebrews 8:6-13

Hebrews 12:22-24

1 Timothy 1:4

Revelation 12:11

Jesus Christ is the ultimate fulfillment of Israel.
He is the "chief cornerstone" rejected by one nation in Matthew chapter 21, but accepted by another "Holy nation" in 1 Peter 2:4-10.

The 27 books known today as "The New Testament" are a collection of books about the New Covenant that was promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34.

The whole Bible is a book about Jesus Christ. He said so in His own words on the road to Emmaus. John 1:1, Luke 24:27

Not a single thing wrong with any of the Scriptures you posted; only in how you attempt to make them say things they do not say.

The Church, consisting of the One Body of Christ, is His Church, He is the Founder and Head of, consisting of everyone who believes in Him. None of whom belong to Israel, who has to this day, rejected Jesus as their Messiah, according to 1 Cor.12:12-13; Col.1:18 and Zech.12:10 and 14:4-5.


Quasar92

 

[BABerean2]

The Church, consisting of the One Body of Christ, is His Church, He is the Founder and Head of, consisting of everyone who believes in Him. None of whom belong to Israel, who has to this day, rejected Jesus as their Messiah,

"None of whom belong to Israel..."

Really ???

Either you are confused, or Peter was confused on the Day of Pentecost.

Act 2:14　 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words.　

Act 2:22　 "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know—　

Act 2:36　 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."　



Either you are confused or the Apostle Paul is confused in the verse below.


Rom 11:1　 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
　


Once again, we see that what you are claiming does not match up to what is found in scripture.

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[Quasar92]

"None of whom belong to Israel..."

Really ???

Either you are confused, or Peter was confused on the Day of Pentecost.

Act 2:14　 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words.　

Act 2:22　 "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know—　

Act 2:36　 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."　



Either you are confused or the Apostle Paul is confused in the verse below.


Rom 11:1　 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
　


Once again, we see that what you are claiming does not match up to what is found in scripture.

.

"None of whom belong to Israel..."

Really ???

Either you are confused, or Peter was confused on the Day of Pentecost.

Act 2:14　 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words.　

Act 2:22　 "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know—　

Act 2:36　 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."　



Either you are confused or the Apostle Paul is confused in the verse below.


Rom 11:1　 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
　


Once again, we see that what you are claiming does not match up to what is found in scripture.

.

No matter how long you and hard you argue, no one who believes/receives Jesus as their Lord and Savior belong to anyone but Jesus Himself, who bought them with His own shed blood...His Body, the Church. NEVER to Israel!


Quasar92

 

[BABerean2]

No matter how long you and hard you argue, no one who believes/receives Jesus as their Lord and Savior belong to anyone but Jesus Himself, who bought them with His own shed blood...His Body, the Church. NEVER to Israel!

Joh 10:16　 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.　


Rom 11:1　 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.　

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[Quasar92]

Joh 10:16　 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.　


Rom 11:1　 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.　

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In JN.10:16, Jesus is addressing His disciples, who represent Israel. The "other" sheep pen He said He will bring too, is the Church. Then He prophecied there will be one flock with one Shepherd, which will be fulfilled AFTER His second coming, during His 1,000 year reign on earth!


Quasar92

 

[BABerean2]

Then He prophecied there will be one flock with one Shepherd, which will be fulfilled AFTER His second coming, during His 1,000 year reign on earth!

You have repeatedly said "never".

"who bought them with His own shed blood...His Body, the Church. NEVER to Israel!"

Have you changed your mind?

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[Ronald]

Let see if the below verses taken from your link are talking about a "pre-trib rapture" or rather about what happen at the DEATH OF A CHRISTIAN BELIEVER.

Jn.14:2-4 and 28:
"In my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you [See Jn.20:17]. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going." [Jn.14:2-4].

"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." [Jn.14:28].

The Scriptures tell us where we all go, who belong to Christ, AFTER THE DEATH OF OUR BODIES:
"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." As recorded in 2 Cor.5:8, confirming Ecc.12:7.

I agree with the interpretation that when we die (before His Second Coming), we go directly to Him, no soul sleep, no purgatory, etc. All the Christians who died for the last 1885 years and all the faithful Jews prior to Christ are with Him now. These scriptures do not pertain to His Second Coming/Rapture.

 

[Ronald]

As I previously posted:

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church by Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John, Paul and C.I. Scofield recorded below:

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church in Theology/Prophecy& Revelation Forum Forum

1. Frank L. Gaebelein, A.M., Litt.D., Headmaster Emiritus, The Stoney Brook School; 2. William Culbertson, D.D., L.L.D., President, Moody Bible Institute; 3. Charles L. Feinberg, ThD., PhD., Dean, Talbot Theological Seminary; 4. Allan A. Mac Rae, A.M., PhD., President, Biblical School of Theology; 5. Clarence E. Mason, Jr., Th.M., D.D., Dean, Philadelphia College of Bible; 6. Alva J. Mc Clain, Th.M., D.D., President Emeritus, Grace Theological Seminary; 7. Wilbur M. Smith, D.D., Editor, Peloubet's Select Notes; 8. John F. Walvoord, A.M., Th.D., President, Dallas Theological Seminary; 9. C.I. Scofield, D.D., Editor, Scofield Bible; 10. Editorial Committee Chairman, J. E. Schuyler English, Litt.D.

Chuck Missler, Koinonia House, Charles Stanley, Baptist minister, Zola Levitt, Levitt's Ministries, Miles Weiss, Zola Levitt's Ministries, Moishe Rosen, Jew's For Jesus Org., David Bickner, Jew's For Jesus Org., Mitch Glaser, His Chosen People Minisries Dwight Pentecost, Dean at Dallas Theological Seminary, Harold Wilmington, Dean at Liberty Seminary, Arno Froese, Editor and CEO of Midnight Call Ministries, Thomas Ice, PhD., Author, Jack Van Impe, TV Ministry, Tim Le Haye, Author, Jerry Fallwell, Baptist minister, Billie Graham, TV ministry, Franklin Graham, TV ministry, Dr. Ron Carlson, Dr. Wilfred Hahn, Dave Hunt, Ed Decker and Dr. Norbert Lieth.

Quasar92

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Shortly after I became a Christian in 1991, I would attend Chuck Missler’s teachings as a guest pastor in Hal Lindsey’s Church, Tetelestai in Torrance, Ca. and Chuck Smith’s Calvary Chapel in Costa Mesa, Ca. I was fascinated by his genius, bought many of his CD’s that went into astro-physics and deep stuff. I’ve studied Walvoord as well and other’s in your list. They are all great teachers. I hope they are right, I just believe in a different scenario. I also read the entire Left Behind Series, but don’t agree with it.

You must realize that some pastor’s are gifted to teach theology, each having their own style and each one drawn to focus on salvation, bringing in the flock, equipping them, evangelism, etc., but when it comes to prophecy, some are not gifted in that area and like my pastor who is brilliant, avoids Revelation. It is a spiritual gift which I believe I have along with the gift of exhortation. I was drawn to it, drawn to the future, how it’s all going to end more than any other area. I actually would preach a similar sermon, mention key topics on the way to church before I heard the sermon. Like a preview, things came to me sometimes that way. But many of those teachers would even tell you that the gift of prophecy stopped with the apostles – nope, none the gifts stopped.

If the Seventh Trumpet is the Last Trumpet then we are around when at least some of the things happen throughout the events in the first six trumpets. This one key discrepancy in their view changes their scenario and turns it upside down – it doesn’t work and so they must insist that the last trumpet means something entirely different, symbolic, not literal, not #7.

The only pastor who comes close to my view is Jack Hayford. In his book E Quake it explains the structure of Revelation which everyone gets confused about. The only way we’d get caught up prior to the trumpet events is that if they were all blown at once and we are just shown what each one represents, one at a time. I’m comfortable with that happening, thank you very much. I do know that the events overlap and accumulate. I think the trumpets are the last warnings and number 7 is it. Once that blows, the 7 blows of God’s wrath are released and no one repents after that point because the Church along with the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way.

 

[Quasar92]

I agree with the interpretation that when we die (before His Second Coming), we go directly to Him, no soul sleep, no purgatory, etc. All the Christians who died for the last 1885 years and all the faithful Jews prior to Christ are with Him now. These scriptures do not pertain to His Second Coming/Rapture.

The nly rapture of the Church, will be before the tribulation begins, according to the Scriptures. There is no such thing as a post trib rapture.


The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church in Theology/Prophecy & Revelation Forum Forum


Quasar92

 

[BABerean2]

There is no such thing as a post trib rapture.

Rev 11:11　 Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them.　
Rev 11:12　 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them.　



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[Quasar92]

Rev 11:11　 Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them.　
Rev 11:12　 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them.　



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The raising of the two witnesses from the dead is completely irrelevant to the pre-trib rapture of the Church as described in the following. Nor is it a rapture in any way, shape or form!

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church in Theology/Prophecy & Revelation Forum Forum


Quasar92

 

[BABerean2]

Nor is it a rapture in any way, shape or form!

Rev 11:12　 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them.　

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[Quasar92]

Rev 11:12　 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them.　

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FYI, the term RAPTURE is applied to the Lord's return from heaven, to gather all those who believe in Him together in the sky, to be with Him forever. From where He will take millions of us to heaven with Him, as recorded in Jn.14:2-3 28; 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess,2:3 and 7-8.

The raising of the two witnesses of Rev.11:3, IS NOT a rapture, as you attempt to remake the Scriptures to fit your personal views.


Quasar92

 

[BABerean2]

The raising of the two witnesses of Rev.11:3, IS NOT a rapture, as you attempt to remake the Scriptures to fit your personal views.

"FYI" It is according to the definition of the "Harpazo" or "snatching away" often used by the proponents of your doctrine.

You are trying to ignore it to make your doctrine work.

While you are at it, also try to ignore the 7th trumpet a few verse later, as well as "the time of the judgment of the dead", also found in the same passage.


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[Quasar92]

"FYI" It is according to the definition of the "Harpazo" or "snatching away" often used by the proponents of your doctrine.

You are trying to ignore it to make your doctrine work.

While you are at it, also try to ignore the 7th trumpet a few verse later, as well as "the time of the judgment of the dead", also found in the same passage.


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It is difficult to understand, how intelligent people can continually argue against the clearly articulated Scriptures that refute the misconceptions of them, they are possessed with.

The doctrine of the pre-trib rapture of the Church you attribute to me, is that of Jesus , Matthew, Luke, John and Paul, whom you continue to call liars, as revealed in the following. Which you have seen many times over. No matter how many times, or how long, you will never alter what they teach. The English term used when Jesus returns to rapture His Church, is CAUGHT UP TOGETHER, to meet Him in the sky, as recorded in 1 Thess.4:17.

Theology/Prophecy & Revelation Forum Forum


Quasar92

 

[BABerean2]

The doctrine of the pre-trib rapture of the Church you attribute to me, is that of Jesus , Matthew, Luke, John and Paul, whom you continue to call liars, as revealed in the following. Which you have seen many times over. No matter how many times, or how long, you will never alter what they teach. The English term used when Jesus returns to rapture His Church, is CAUGHT UP TOGETHER, to meet Him in the sky, as recorded in 1 Thess.4:17.

Why do you cut 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 from chapter 5, in order to make your doctrine work?

The words "we" and "sleep" in 1 Thessalonians 5:10 prove that the two chapters are connected.

Maybe it is because the timing of the event at the end of chapter 4 is found at the beginning of chapter 5 on "the day of the Lord" when He comes "as a thief".
Based on 2 Peter 3:10 and Revelation 16:15-16, that would make it a Second Coming event.



All false Bible doctrines are revealed not by the scripture quoted by its proponents, but by the scripture they must ignore to make it work.

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[Quasar92]

Why do you cut 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 from chapter 5, in order to make your doctrine work?

The words "we" and "sleep" in 1 Thessalonians 5:10 prove that the two chapters are connected.

Maybe it is because the timing of the event at the end of chapter 4 is found at the beginning of chapter 5 on "the day of the Lord" when He comes "as a thief".
Based on 2 Peter 3:10 and Revelation 16:15-16, that would make it a Second Coming event.



All false Bible doctrines are revealed not by the scripture quoted by its proponents, but by the scripture they must ignore to make it work.

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The reason 1 Thess.5 is not mentioned in any of my posts pertaining to the rapture of the Church, is because it has nothing whatever to do with it. 1 Thess.5 is about the Day of the Lord, that follows immediately after the rapture of the Church, and those who are going to miss it, as shown below.

The Rapture of the Church:

1 Thess.4:13 "Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words."

The Day of the Lord immediately following the Rapture of the Church:

1 Thess.5:1 "Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you,2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. 5 You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. 6 So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be awake and sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. 8 But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. 9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 10 He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him. 11 Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing"

As you can see, the hue and cry you make over this issue serves you in no way whatever.


Quasar92.

 

[BABerean2]

1 Thess.5 is about the Day of the Lord, that follows immediately after the rapture of the Church

For some reason you ignored the words "we" and "sleep" in 1 Thessalonians 5:10, which prove that chapter 5 is connected to chapter 4, and provides the timing of the event at the end of chapter 4.


2Pe 3:10　 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.　


2Th 1:7　 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,　
2Th 1:8　 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.　


Rev 16:15　 "Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame."　
Rev 16:16　 And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.　

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[Quasar92]

For some reason you ignored the words "we" and "sleep" in 1 Thessalonians 5:10, which prove that chapter 5 is connected to chapter 4, and provides the timing of the event at the end of chapter 4.


2Pe 3:10　 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.　


2Th 1:7　 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,　
2Th 1:8　 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.　


Rev 16:15　 "Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame."　
Rev 16:16　 And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.　

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My post #418 refutes your continued attempt to negate the teachings of Jesus and His disciples teachings about the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church.

In 1 Thess.414-17, Jesus retirns with and for every person who ever beiieved in Him. In 1 Thess.5:2-9, is abut the Day of the Lord/tribulation, and the reason why all believers WILL NOT be participants in it. Which is precisely what Jn.14:2-3, 28; Rev.4:1-2 and Rev.197=8, 14 clearly teach.

What you keep trying to field as an argument against the pre-trib rapture teaching, is none at all. The following four pst link proves it:

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church in Theology/Prophecy & Revelation Forum Forum


Quasar92