Will Sunday worship be the downfall of many Christians.

[reddogs]

Since the scriptures are clear that no other day was made as the day of worship except the seventh day, and the Commandments show this with unblinking clarity to Christians. If they are fully aware that Sunday worship is not ordained by God or anywhere in the Bible or given by Christ or the apostles, and with full knowledge continue to transgress what is shown to them from scripture, will God wink at it, lets look at scripture......

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:


It shows that God allows for mankinds ignorance, but we have Christians who are aware of the history of Sunday worship. Sunday was the established day of festival, a pagan day to the gods in the pagan world. Later, when these pagans professed Christianity, they gradually brought the practice of the pagan festivals on Sunday with them into the church, and the bishops looked the other way as long as they had 'converts' to show they were more influential or had more numbers than other bishops.

Now from scripture we see the people of the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, including Jesus Christ Himself (e.g. Luke 4:16), observed the Sabbath. No where in the Bible, including after Christ's resurrection, will you find people observing the first day of the week, Sunday, as a replacement for the Sabbath.

So if Christians, knowing that Sunday is not the Sabbath, and knowing the Commandments show what is transgression or iniquity/sin, and clearly show what day is the Sabbath, continue to transgress what God commands, what will happen to them when Christ comes...

 

[reddogs]

Now, lets take a closer look at transgression, or what is inquity or sin, from scripture. If we look it is any thought, word or action, omission or desire, contrary to the law of God.(Rom.8:3) Sin in us has been condemned, thus when we come humbly to God and confess our wrong doing in repentance, the Father forgives and justifies us of all sin, which are the acts committed against his law.

Titus 2:14 speaks about the sacrifice of Christ and says,“Who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.” The word “redeem”in this context means to release on receipt of a ransom. So Christ paid the ransom note and released us from the controlling power of iniquity.

If we choose to deny the sacrifice of Christ and continue to live in sin, there will be consequences. Jeremiah 5:25 says,“Your iniquities have turned away these things, and your sins have withholden good things from you.”

So from scripture we can see that iniquity and sin really puts us in the domain of evil and the blessings of the Lord are withheld from us. We can see the consequences of iniquity all over the Bible, when Cain held on to the evil thoughts and we know the results, and when jealousy over a coat caused brothers to try to kill and they sell their own flesh and blood, and Judas selling out for 30 peices of silver. The Bible is full of examples of people holding on to iniquity instead of trusting in the Creator, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the great I AM, writer of the Law, Lord of the Sabbath, Christ our Lord, and the truth he brings.

But then if Christians stay with sin and iniquity, and knowingly continue in transgression and do not come humbly before God and admit and confess/repent the sin, but with full knowledge of it, hold on to it and do no let it go, what happens then.

 

[ChrisCarol]

Since the scriptures are clear that no other day was made as the day of worship except the seventh day, and the Commandments show this with unblinking clarity to Christians. If they are fully aware that Sunday worship is not ordained by God or anywhere in the Bible or given by Christ or the apostles, and with full knowledge continue to transgress what is shown to them from scripture, will God wink at it, lets look at scripture......

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:


It shows that God allows for mankinds ignorance, but we have Christians who are aware of the history of Sunday worship. Sunday was the established day of festival, a pagan day to the gods in the pagan world. Later, when these pagans professed Christianity, they gradually brought the practice of the pagan festivals on Sunday with them into the church, and the bishops looked the other way as long as they had 'converts' to show they were more influential or had more numbers than other bishops.

Now from scripture we see the people of the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, including Jesus Christ Himself (e.g. Luke 4:16), observed the Sabbath.


I would like some understanding here according to the Bible.

Luke 2:42
When he was twelve years old, they went up to the festival, according to the custom.


Luke 4:16
He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. He stood up to read,


Mark 10:1
Jesus then left that place and went into the region of Judea and across the Jordan. Again crowds of people came to him, and as was his custom, he taught them.

Does Custom in these scriptures mean Law or does it mean something that has become a continuing practice?

No where in the Bible, including after Christ's resurrection, will you find people observing the first day of the week, Sunday, as a replacement for the Sabbath.

So if Christians, knowing that Sunday is not the Sabbath, and knowing the Commandments show what is transgression or iniquity/sin, and clearly show what day is the Sabbath, continue to transgress what God commands, what will happen to them when Christ comes...

When Christ comes and I answer this question correctly:

Who do you say that I am?

Then and only then will I have full assurance of Eternal Life with my Savior.

I know what that Answer will be and it will be the same as Peter in Matthew 16:16.

I pray this will not be a violation of rules since I want only that the Bible be presented in Truth.

 

[phoenixdem]

Since the scriptures are clear that no other day was made as the day of worship except the seventh day, and the Commandments show this with unblinking clarity to Christians. If they are fully aware that Sunday worship is not ordained by God or anywhere in the Bible or given by Christ or the apostles, and with full knowledge continue to transgress what is shown to them from scripture, will God wink at it, lets look at scripture......

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:


It shows that God allows for mankinds ignorance, but we have Christians who are aware of the history of Sunday worship. Sunday was the established day of festival, a pagan day to the gods in the pagan world. Later, when these pagans professed Christianity, they gradually brought the practice of the pagan festivals on Sunday with them into the church, and the bishops looked the other way as long as they had 'converts' to show they were more influential or had more numbers than other bishops.

Now from scripture we see the people of the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, including Jesus Christ Himself (e.g. Luke 4:16), observed the Sabbath. No where in the Bible, including after Christ's resurrection, will you find people observing the first day of the week, Sunday, as a replacement for the Sabbath.

So if Christians, knowing that Sunday is not the Sabbath, and knowing the Commandments show what is transgression or iniquity/sin, and clearly show what day is the Sabbath, continue to transgress what God commands, what will happen to them when Christ comes...

Col

2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of
an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and
worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath​

not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

 

[reddogs]

When Christ comes and I answer this question correctly:

Who do you say that I am?

Then and only then will I have full assurance of Eternal Life with my Savior.

I know what that Answer will be and it will be the same as Peter in Matthew 16:16.

I pray this will not be a violation of rules since I want only that the Bible be presented in Truth.

We live by faith, and God knows his children... God Bless

 

[reddogs]

Col

2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of
an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:​

2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.​

2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and
worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath​

not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

Yet if we willfully do what we want and reject what Christ the Creator of the day he sanctified and made holy for us, and has asked us to follow if we love him, what will he say...

 

[phoenixdem]

Yet if we willfully do what we want and reject what Christ the Creator of the day he sanctified and made holy for us, and has asked us to follow if we love him, what will he say...

I don't see where Paul is talking about willful disobedience to God in these verses. In fact, the context is exactly the opposite. The people to whom Paul was writing did these things and Paul chastened them for their adherence to the Law of Moses. You cannot bend the meaning of the Scripture to fit your opinion. That is a no-no.

 

[JohnMarsten]

I must say one thing!

Even though I highly disagree with EGW, and dont think a sunday law is coming, and that all things might work out differently than the SDA claims they will work out...

Despite all my doubts and stuff...

Should that Sunday law thing ever come to pass and sabbath keepers were to be persecuted, killed and what have you... I think I would change my mind then and definitely stick to the sabbath, even though it all seems very unlikely to me today, but that would be a fullfilment of EGWs words, the first prophecy to be fulfilled of hers, that might actually get me round... fi real!

At the moment I am more into that whole microchip agenda though... like those who dont want to get chipped will be killed or something...

 

[phoenixdem]

I must say one thing!

Even though I highly disagree with EGW, and dont think a sunday law is coming, and that all things might work out differently than the SDA claims they will work out...

Despite all my doubts and stuff...

Should that Sunday law thing ever come to pass and sabbath keepers were to be persecuted, killed and what have you... I think I would change my mind then and definitely stick to the sabbath, even though it all seems very unlikely to me today, but that would be a fullfilment of EGWs words, the first prophecy to be fulfilled of hers, that might actually get me round... fi real!

At the moment I am more into that whole microchip agenda though... like those who dont want to get chipped will be killed or something...

One way to validate a new denomination is to create a common enemy even though the enemy is faceless and even nameless. It also helps validate a new religion to tell members that they may be martyred for their "faith."

Satan will persecute Christians, yes. And, that will be part of the Last Days. That is talked about in the Scriptures.

 

[Pythons]

Since the scriptures are clear that no other day was made as the day of worship except the seventh day, and the Commandments show this with unblinking clarity to Christians. If they are fully aware that Sunday worship is not ordained by God or anywhere in the Bible or given by Christ or the apostles, and with full knowledge continue to transgress what is shown to them from scripture, will God wink at it, lets look at scripture......

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:


It shows that God allows for mankinds ignorance, but we have Christians who are aware of the history of Sunday worship. Sunday was the established day of festival, a pagan day to the gods in the pagan world. Later, when these pagans professed Christianity, they gradually brought the practice of the pagan festivals on Sunday with them into the church, and the bishops looked the other way as long as they had 'converts' to show they were more influential or had more numbers than other bishops.

Now from scripture we see the people of the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, including Jesus Christ Himself (e.g. Luke 4:16), observed the Sabbath. No where in the Bible, including after Christ's resurrection, will you find people observing the first day of the week, Sunday, as a replacement for the Sabbath.

So if Christians, knowing that Sunday is not the Sabbath, and knowing the Commandments show what is transgression or iniquity/sin, and clearly show what day is the Sabbath, continue to transgress what God commands, what will happen to them when Christ comes...

The New Moon was a worship day according to the Commandment of the Lord.


Eze 46,1
Thus saith the Lord GOD; The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the new moon it shall be opened. And the prince shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate without, and shall stand by the post of the gate, and the priests shall prepare his burnt offering and his peace offerings, and he shall worship at the threshold of the gate: then he shall go forth; but the gate shall not be shut until the evening. Likewise the people of the land shall worship at the door of this gate before the LORD in the sabbaths AND in the new moons


So the Sabbath wasn't the only "worship day" - the New Moon was as well...
...And since the New Moon determined the Sabbath at that time.
...You couldn't have the one w/out the other.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0huE68l0nA&feature=player_embedded#!

 

[phoenixdem]

The New Moon was a worship day according to the Commandment of the Lord.


Eze 46,1
Thus saith the Lord GOD; The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the new moon it shall be opened. And the prince shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate without, and shall stand by the post of the gate, and the priests shall prepare his burnt offering and his peace offerings, and he shall worship at the threshold of the gate: then he shall go forth; but the gate shall not be shut until the evening. Likewise the people of the land shall worship at the door of this gate before the LORD in the sabbaths AND in the new moons


So the Sabbath wasn't the only "worship day" - the New Moon was as well...
...And since the New Moon determined the Sabbath at that time.
...You couldn't have the one w/out the other.

The Creator's Calendar - YouTube

Whatever was decreed in the old covenant of law belongs under that covenant. The new Covenant (of Grace) is a new thing. In the verses below, was Jesus giving a crash course in wine making or talking about the old and new covenants?

Matthew

9:15 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber
mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will
come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then
shall they fast.

9:16 No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that
which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is
made worse.​

23
​

9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles
break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put​

new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

 

[Kira Light]

If 7th day worship isn't salvational then I have no idea what this whole SDA thing has been about.

 

[Pythons]

Whatever was decreed in the old covenant of law belongs under that covenant. The new Covenant (of Grace) is a new thing. In the verses below, was Jesus giving a crash course in wine making or talking about the old and new covenants?

Matthew

9:15 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber
mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will
come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then
shall they fast.​

9:16 No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that
which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is
made worse.
23​

​

​

9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles
break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put​

new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

The ceremonial yes ( New Moons and Sabbath's ), the moral remains binding eternally.

 

[phoenixdem]

If 7th day worship isn't salvational then I have no idea what this whole SDA thing has been about.

Any works that people do don't contribute a whit to a person's salvation. Salvation comes from the Lord and His sacrificial death and rising provides a way for man to God. God calls a person to salvation from a life of sin and His work is what we must depend on. That is why born-again people like to talk about faith through the Grace of God. The Grace of God is unmerited favor, i.e. God loves His people and gives His people saving faith in Him, not in ourselves or our works.

I am a Baptist, not SDA. Observing the Sabbath Day provides as much to a person's salvation as spitting on the ground does.

 

[Stryder06]

I must say one thing!

Even though I highly disagree with EGW, and dont think a sunday law is coming, and that all things might work out differently than the SDA claims they will work out...

Despite all my doubts and stuff...

Should that Sunday law thing ever come to pass and sabbath keepers were to be persecuted, killed and what have you... I think I would change my mind then and definitely stick to the sabbath, even though it all seems very unlikely to me today, but that would be a fullfilment of EGWs words, the first prophecy to be fulfilled of hers, that might actually get me round... fi real!

At the moment I am more into that whole microchip agenda though... like those who dont want to get chipped will be killed or something...

You do realize that there are laws being pushed now in other countries that forbade sunday being used as a common day right? And sabbath keepers have been persecuted in the past. It's just about timing for when it will happen again.

 

[Cribstyl]

(1) Since the scriptures are clear that no other day was made as the day of worship except the seventh day, and the Commandments show this with unblinking clarity to Christians.

(2) If they are fully aware that Sunday worship is not ordained by God or anywhere in the Bible or given by Christ or the apostles, and with full knowledge continue to transgress what is shown to them from scripture, will God wink at it, lets look at scripture......
Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:


(3) It shows that God allows for mankinds ignorance, but we have Christians who are aware of the history of Sunday worship. Sunday was the established day of festival, a pagan day to the gods in the pagan world.



(4) Later, when these pagans professed Christianity, they gradually brought the practice of the pagan festivals on Sunday with them into the church, and the bishops looked the other way as long as they had 'converts' to show they were more influential or had more numbers than other bishops.

(5) Now from scripture we see the people of the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, including Jesus Christ Himself (e.g. Luke 4:16), observed the Sabbath.

(6) No where in the Bible, including after Christ's resurrection, will you find people observing the first day of the week, Sunday, as a replacement for the Sabbath.

(7) So if Christians, knowing that Sunday is not the Sabbath, and knowing the Commandments show what is transgression or iniquity/sin, and clearly show what day is the Sabbath, continue to transgress what God commands, what will happen to them when Christ comes...

__________________

[/quote]
With all due respects reddogs,
which one of these (7)points I've labelled is a biblical truth that you will prove as clear truth in this thread?

All these points are the same old "dump and run" we argue about here at CF.

(Response to 1) It's easy to say the bible teach that only one day is a worship day, implyingall the others day are not. Then you offer no reasonable explanation.
You presented the 4th commandment as proof to Christians, but the 4.com does not command worship. True or False?
When I search the scriptures to find worship days. I found that when God first esblished a calender with the Children of Israel Exd 12:2 He also commaded that they keep the passover forever. The first day was set as a holy convocation in which they were to do no work at all.Exd 12:16And in the first day [there shall be] an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save [that] which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.
My point is, you cant say that God never commanded worship (by your standards) on other days than the seventh day. True or false?

When we read the 4th commandment. we understand that the sabbath day is given to the people to rest, these people were all slaves in Egypt, they were not 1/10 of the people of the world. True or False?

The fact that God isolated rest within the borders of their land, is proof that the world was not ever given the Sabbath. True or False?

These same people all died because of unbelief in God rather than natual causes except 2 men only. True or False?

Does the bible show that the rest of the world died because of God commandments, or was it only those whom recieved God's law? True or False?




I have only addressed your first point because you're weaving a web that most people dont take time to address each questionable statement.
I will address the 2nd point along with your response to my post.

 

[JRSut1000]

If someone wants to honor the Lord on the first day of their week, then fine. There's nothing in Scriptures forbidding a gathering on the first day, in fact is IS seen in the NT. But dont call the first day the Sabbath because it simply isnt. The Sabbath day is for rest, for family, and for worshipping God. We can gather on Sunday morning, Sunday nigth, Wednesday night, whatever. But the Sabbath IS the 7th day (days begin in the evening, so friday evening through saturday) to be kept holy, no work, and devoted to Him.

Is Sunday church the demise of Christianity? I wouldnt go that far, but there's a lot of man-made traditions that have compromised the truth of GOd's WOrd.

 

[reddogs]

If someone wants to honor the Lord on the first day of their week, then fine. There's nothing in Scriptures forbidding a gathering on the first day, in fact is IS seen in the NT. But dont call the first day the Sabbath because it simply isnt. The Sabbath day is for rest, for family, and for worshipping God. We can gather on Sunday morning, Sunday nigth, Wednesday night, whatever. But the Sabbath IS the 7th day (days begin in the evening, so friday evening through saturday) to be kept holy, no work, and devoted to Him.

Is Sunday church the demise of Christianity? I wouldnt go that far, but there's a lot of man-made traditions that have compromised the truth of GOd's WOrd.

If Christ as the Creator and great I AM, Jehovah God who wrote it in stone, and clearly says he made the Sabbath and is Lord or the Sabbath asks that if you love him to follow his commandments. The forth one is still there, so its clear Christ the Creator of the Sabbath who gave it to all mankind as a gift and not just the Jews, considers the Sabbath to apply. Can you show anywhere in scripture where Sunday has been made the same, as a day of worship. So the Sabbath is still there, it hasnt been done away with or abolished, and if you know that, then you will have to show why you rejected it when Christ who gave it, comes..

 

[JRSut1000]

I'm not arguing the Sunday as the Sabbath, I'm on your side on this issue. I consider the 7th day as the Sabbath for the very reasons you do. But what I am saying, it doesnt matter to me which day people choose to get together, just dont call Sunday through Friday (the day) your sabbath, cuz it's about HIS sabbath right?

 

[Charles Spurgeon]

If Christ as the Creator and great I AM, Jehovah God who wrote it in stone, and clearly says he made the Sabbath and is Lord or the Sabbath asks that if you love him to follow his commandments. The forth one is still there, so its clear Christ the Creator of the Sabbath who gave it to all mankind as a gift and not just the Jews, considers the Sabbath to apply. Can you show anywhere in scripture where Sunday has been made the same, as a day of worship. So the Sabbath is still there, it hasnt been done away with or abolished, and if you know that, then you will have to show why you rejected it when Christ who gave it, comes..

Is the Sabbath a salvational issue to you? If a person claims to be a Christian, but doesn't worship on the Sabbath because they don't think it's necessary under the New Covenant, do you think such a person is truly saved?