Will priests be allowed to marry again ?

Status
Not open for further replies.

jargew

Newbie
Aug 6, 2012
125
87
✟12,751.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Considering that:

A) The rule prohibiting priests from marrying is not biblical, but stems from a rule imposed in the 11th century to keep inheritance within the church.
AND
B) The rampant abuse carried out by priests in recent years across the globe.

Do you think priests should marry? And of so, do you think this will ever be allowed by the church again?

I say allowed "again", because before Pope Gregory VII (11th century) priests were allowed to marry as stated in holy scripture.
1 Timothy 3:2 - Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach.

Titus 1:6-7 - ...if anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife, and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination. 7 For an overseer, as God’s steward, must be above reproach...
 
  • Like
Reactions: WarriorAngel

mark46

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 29, 2010
20,066
4,740
✟839,413.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Considering that:

A) The rule prohibiting priests from marrying is not biblical, but stems from a rule imposed in the 11th century to keep inheritance within the church.
AND
B) The rampant abuse carried out by priests in recent years across the globe.

Do you think priests should marry? And of so, do you think this will ever be allowed by the church again?

I say allowed "again", because before Pope Gregory VII (11th century) priests were allowed to marry as stated in holy scripture.
1 Timothy 3:2 - Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach.

Titus 1:6-7 - ...if anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife, and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination. 7 For an overseer, as God’s steward, must be above reproach...

I believe that married men should be allowed to become priests and bishops. It is only in the Latin Rite that married priests are excluded. Married men can be come priests in the Eastern Catholic rites, within the Oriental Orthodox churches and within the Eastern Orthodox church (and also within the Anglican and Lutheran churches).

BTW, the meaning of Titus is not clear. It seems to require that a priest be married. IMHO, what the passage is really about is a prohibition against bigamy by priests or pastors. In any case, the passage makes clear that priests could be married.

I note that this is not the same as allowing priests to marry.
 
Upvote 0

pdudgeon

Traditional Catholic
Site Supporter
In Memory Of
Aug 4, 2005
37,777
12,353
South East Virginia, US
✟493,233.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Republican
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerical_celibacy

the article is long, but it gives the background of the various rulings through the centuries on clerical celibacy.
and given the above history, i doubt that it would be set aside.
not everyone is called to the priesthood. but for those who are, grace is available to overcome.
 
Upvote 0

Rhamiel

Member of the Round Table
Nov 11, 2006
41,182
9,432
ohio
✟241,111.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
the Latin Church has evolved for the past 1,500 years with a primarily celibate priesthood

it seems inorganic to just change all of that

and as I understand it, priests could NEVER marry, rather married men could become priests

you mention priestly celibacy was introduced in 1,100
if something like that was imposed over night, there would have been riots in the street
while there were married priests before 1,100, it was not as wide spread as you might think
 
Upvote 0

LivingWordUnity

Unchanging Deposit of Faith, Traditional Catholic
May 10, 2007
24,496
11,193
✟213,086.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
The Catholic Church has never licitly allowed priests to get married. The Church has allowed some married men to become priests. But this has been the exception to the rule. Priestly celibacy in the Church is based on the personal examples of Jesus and St. Paul and on both saying that for service to God it's better to be celibate (Matt 19:12, Lk 18:29-30, 1 Cor 7:32-34).
 
Upvote 0

JimR-OCDS

God Cannot Be Grasped, Except Through Love
Oct 28, 2008
18,355
3,289
The Kingdom of Heaven
Visit site
✟187,497.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Priest can not marry.

Married men were allowed into the priesthood, just as the Eastern Orthodox, but could not become Bishops.

I hope married men will be allowed into the priesthood before it's too late and we end up with priest-less Sundays
 
Upvote 0

Fish and Bread

Dona nobis pacem
Jan 31, 2005
14,109
2,389
✟68,185.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
the Latin Church has evolved for the past 1,500 years with a primarily celibate priesthood
it seems inorganic to just change all of that

Okay, but no more complaining about the vocations shortage then. :) I mean, in the feudal times when the first son inherited everything, the later sons would often find the best path open to them in life was becoming a priest or a solider, and there were lots of very big families. And, by the way, a lot of those priests had mistresses- or, ahem, close bachelor friends. But we don't live in those times anymore. There aren't as many surplus males who can't inherit, there is no real disadvantage to not being the first born in a generalized sense, the priesthood is considered a less prestigious position, and those who want, um, close bachelor friends can do so without having to pretend to be celibate to be accepted (Usually, anyway).

The situation on the ground is just different. And this is exactly the kind of area where the Church can and should adapt, because the priest shortage is leaving lay people under-served. Even the most conservative folks admit that celibate versus married clergy is just a matter of discipline. What could be done, if they don't want to go "whole hog" on this, is to have a special order of celibate priests who get sort of an inside track to being pastors of parishes and bishops of dioceses, with a different order of ordinary sort of "parish priests" who are fully ordained priests, but because they can marry are mostly limited to just being associate pastors, occasionally pastors where necessary, and very occasionally bishops in the event of a really outstanding shepherd.

And if you don't think this situation is at all related to the vocations shortage, you should look at the statistics and listen to the stories about just how many priests left the priesthood and asked to be laicized so they could marry in the 60s, 70s, and 80s. That doesn't count the people who decided not to become priests in the first place for this reason, which is probably substantial but unquantifiable.

and as I understand it, priests could NEVER marry, rather married men could become priests

My understanding is that in the east where priests can officially marry, that they must be married prior to ordination and can not marry afterwards or in the event of their wife's death. This leads to a mad scramble among single seminarians to find a wife under the wire before ordination. I know a female former theology student who took classes with some Eastern Rite seminarians in union with Rome (Who followed the eastern traditions) overseas- they were all over her. Not in a licentious way, mind you. But they were very much looking to get into a serious relationship that would lead to marriage very fast, for obvious reasons.

you mention priestly celibacy was introduced in 1,100
if something like that was imposed over night, there would have been riots in the street
while there were married priests before 1,100, it was not as wide spread as you might think

He's not correct when he says priestly celibacy was introduced in 1,100 in the west, but I think I know what he's talking about, which is that it had come into practice that many priests would take what we might today essentially call common law wives. Things didn't end well for those women and their children after a Papal crackdown on the practice. I can't remember the details, but you can imagine what might happen to a woman in times when women couldn't hold jobs outside the home and virginity was highly valued (and the reverse distained among people looked for wives), if they suddenly were just kicked to the streets with suddenly "illegitimate" children at a time when children born out of wedlock were heavily discriminated against as well.

In western church's first 1200 years or so, there is strong evidence that clerical celibacy was usually upheld on paper, but that in practice the prohibition was frequently ignored. That's why they kept having to crack down on it. One such crackdown was in 530 when the Emperor Justinian declared all marriages entered into by those in holy orders null and void.

Anyway, I just think from a practical perspective, we know celibacy versus marriage for priests is recognized as a matter of discipline (i.e. something that can be changed- not a matter of faith or morals) by all factions in the Church. We have a priest shortage. We know a ton of priests left the priesthood to marry after Vatican II, and we can probably infer that a lot of people are not entering seminaries (or not exiting them as ordained clergy) for the same reason. The Pope could wave his hand and allow married priests tomorrow, and people would have more access to the Eucharist, confessions, and so on and so forth. We also would be able to have smaller parishes where people could speak with their priests regularly and get to know them. And these poor priests would stop having to say 6 Sunday masses and stuff (I understand that canonically under ordinary circumstances, the limit is two, but I've heard of priests being assigned to parishes with 4-6 masses by themselves, and who do you think is celebrating those masses each weekend

And, as I said, to whatever extent priestly celibacy has merit as a tradition, that would not have to be abandoned. There could still be celibate priests. You create a special track for them with special perks and so on and so forth. Some people will always feel the call to do that.
 
Upvote 0

Rhamiel

Member of the Round Table
Nov 11, 2006
41,182
9,432
ohio
✟241,111.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
the idea that allowing married men will solve our shortage of vocations seems like a huge assumption

the Methodist Church has married men and women as ministers, but they are not swimming in vocations, and the average age of minister is creeping up

in fact, I think that allowing married priests might HURT vocations more then it helps

who is going to swear loyalty to something they do not think is stable? that is changing the rules constantly?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

GoingByzantine

Seeking the Narrow Road
Site Supporter
Jun 19, 2013
3,304
1,099
✟92,845.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Married men can become priests in Eastern Catholic Churches. Before the Russian Invasion, Ukraine had so many seminarians that the Church literally could not accommodate them, there was literally no room in many seminaries. Just look at the below picture, these are all the seminarians in just one region. Many attribute this boom to the end of communism, but also to the fact that the men can be married while also seeking a vocation.

img.php

(Acknuk)
 
Upvote 0

Fish and Bread

Dona nobis pacem
Jan 31, 2005
14,109
2,389
✟68,185.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
the idea that allowing married men will solve our shortage of vocations seems like a huge assumption

the Methodist Church has married men and women as ministers, but they are not swimming in vocations, and the average age of minister is creeping up

in fact, I think that allowing married priests might HURT vocations more then it helps

The clergy to lay people at church each week ratio is much better in churches without a clerical celibacy requirement in the US. I mean, like, the Episcopalians and whatnot will complain about not enough clergy, but it's not a real issue compared to what's happening with Roman Catholics. There are parishes with a priest and only a few hundred people in ECUSA, whereas Roman parishes increasingly have thousands of people and only one priest, or share a priest with several other parishes in a cluster, or have three buildings that are part of one parish that one priest pastors. Granted, Episcopalians and Lutherans and Methodists allow women to be priests as well as men, so that could play into the better ratios as well. But I think married priests are certainly part of it.

Just add back the ones who quit to get married after Vatican II up until JP2 tried to stop it with bureaucratic slowdowns and denials of requests, and add whatever percentage they represent to new vocations, and that alone would help a lot number wise. But I think we can assume there are more people who would seek ordination beyond that, even. There are probably a lot of people who don't consider becoming a priest in the first place or only consider it briefly because of the celibacy requirement.

who is going to swear loyalty to something they do not think is stable? that is changing the rules constantly?

One could easily turn that around and say who is going to swear loyalty to something that refuses to recognize the reality of the situation facing it and continues to operate as if the world is the same as it was in 1308 when it comes to this issue? I'm not saying that, but one could.
 
Upvote 0

Rhamiel

Member of the Round Table
Nov 11, 2006
41,182
9,432
ohio
✟241,111.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
You are so full of worries. Do you have any solutions?

pray

encourage people to not look at this as an issue of "social justice" but rather an issue of "social service"
men and women are called to serve the Church, to serve each other, the "love God with your whole heart and to love your neighbor as you love yourself"
but we are called to serve in different ways

encourage people to trust teachings of the Church, to know the faith so we can better explain it to others

live holy and pious lives, thus attract others to the truth by the testimony of our actions
 
Upvote 0

Rhamiel

Member of the Round Table
Nov 11, 2006
41,182
9,432
ohio
✟241,111.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Married men can become priests in Eastern Catholic Churches. Before the Russian Invasion, Ukraine had so many seminarians that the Church literally could not accommodate them, there was literally no room in many seminaries. Just look at the below picture, these are all the seminarians in just one region. Many attribute this boom to the end of communism, but also to the fact that the men can be married while also seeking a vocation.

img.php

(Acknuk)

you know I respect you and love you as a brother in Christ
as an Eastern Catholic, you are aware that many in your Church have shown concern over "latinization" of your particular churches being pressured to adopt Latin traditions and norms

it is a legitimate concern, you love the traditions of your church

I am a Latin Rite Catholic, and I love the rich traditions of the Latin Church

I think we should keep the Eastern Churches with Eastern traditions, and the Latin Church with Latin traditions
 
  • Like
Reactions: pdudgeon
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

GoingByzantine

Seeking the Narrow Road
Site Supporter
Jun 19, 2013
3,304
1,099
✟92,845.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
you know I respect you and love you as a brother in Christ
as an Eastern Catholic, you are aware that many in your Church have shown concern over "latinization" of your particular churches being pressured to adopt Latin traditions and norms

it is a legitimate concern, you love the traditions of your church

I am a Latin Rite Catholic, and I love the rich traditions of the Latin Church

I think we should keep the Eastern Churches with Eastern traditions, and the Latin Church with Latin traditions

I'm not saying you have to change yours. :p

I just like to interject trivia as I hop around this website.
 
Upvote 0

Rhamiel

Member of the Round Table
Nov 11, 2006
41,182
9,432
ohio
✟241,111.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Prayer is always a good place to start. But it cannot be a replacement for our responsible action. What would happen if parents prayed for food and shelter instead of obtaining it?

that is why I said more things then just pray
 
Upvote 0

mark46

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 29, 2010
20,066
4,740
✟839,413.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
the idea that allowing married men will solve our shortage of vocations seems like a huge assumption

the Methodist Church has married men and women as ministers, but they are not swimming in vocations, and the average age of minister is creeping up

in fact, I think that allowing married priests might HURT vocations more then it helps

who is going to swear loyalty to something they do not think is stable? that is changing the rules constantly?

1) There is not a short of priests. It is a matter of location. There are lots and lots of priests in Asia and Africa.

2) It is NOT a huge assumption to believe that many married men would come priests if they could. Consider how many married men are in the permanent deaconate in the US. Consider how many priests have left the priesthood or seminary to be married.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ebia

Senior Contributor
Jul 6, 2004
41,711
2,142
A very long way away. Sometimes even further.
✟54,775.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
AU-Greens
the idea that allowing married men will solve our shortage of vocations seems like a huge assumption

the Methodist Church has married men and women as ministers, but they are not swimming in vocations, and the average age of minister is creeping up

in fact, I think that allowing married priests might HURT vocations more then it helps

who is going to swear loyalty to something they do not think is stable? that is changing the rules constantly?
Do you think that those putting themselves forward have that shallow an understanding of the church?!
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.