Will Pope Francis Scuttle the Latin Mass when Pope Benedict Dies?

Open Heart

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Vatican rumblings: Pope Francis aiming to end Latin Mass permission

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"Sources in Rome told LifeSite last week that liberal prelates inside the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith were overheard discussing a plan ascribed to the Pope to do away with Pope Benedict’s famous document that gave priests freedom to offer the ancient rite of the Mass."
 

Virgil the Roman

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Also, What Card. Lustiger said is heretical. The Church is the NEW ISRAEL. The Church is the Old Israel opened to EVERYONE under the New covenant. The Identification of the Zionist earthly state of "Israel" being the same as the biblical runs contrary to Catholic teaching. Christ sits upon the throne of David, His Kingdom is "not of this world" and it "shall have no end". The Church is Christ's body, His Kingdom and dominion on Earth that is "in the world, but not of the world." The Church IS Israel. The Jews who reject Christ exited Israel and the Covenant of God. Christ fulfilled the law and established a NEW covenant to supersede the old. For the old cannot save a man: rather the New does with the mercy and grace of God by the Sacrifice, passion, and Crucifixion and resurrection of our Blessed Lord and God Jesus Christ.
 
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Open Heart

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Also, What Card. Lustiger said is heretical. The Church is the NEW ISRAEL. The Church is the Old Israel opened to EVERYONE under the New covenant. The Identification of the Zionist earthly state of "Israel" being the same as the biblical runs contrary to Catholic teaching.
The Church is not supersessionist. Nostra Aetate is infallible dogma. Given time, as Nostra Aetate continues to unfold, the term "New Israel" will be dropped from the Church.

Do you realized that Cardinal Lustiger was papabile? He could have been elected pope during the election of Pope Benedict XVI. And you are saying he teaches a heretical doctrine? I don't think so.

All of the covenants God has ever made run concurrently:
Adamic
Noahide
Abrahamic
Mosaic
Davidic
New Covenant

I appreciate many, many things about Traditional Catholicism, especially its commitment to traditional morals. I myself attend a Latin Mass whenever I can. It's one of the reasons I monitor this forum.

But I'm really just a regular Magisterial Catholic. I am so opposed to the abuses done in the "spirit of Vatican 2," but Vatican 2 itself stands, IMHO.
 
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Virgil the Roman

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The Church is not supersessionist.
Yes, she is.
Nostra Aetate is infallible dogma.
No, it's not. It's novelty and has no historical basis in Sacred Tradition or Catholic doctrine held by the Saints ever.

Given time, as Nostra Aetate continues to unfold, the term "New Israel" will be dropped from the Church.
No, that would be Heretical and an act of direct apostasy denying the efficacy of the New Covenant which Comprises and makes up the New Israel, the Catholic Church.

Do you realized that Cardinal Lustiger was papabile?
So were other crypto-heretics; but Cardinals can still be heretics, as can any cleric (See: 'Cum Ex Apostalatus')

He could have been elected pope during the election of Pope Benedict XVI.
That's superfluous information.

And you are saying he teaches a heretical doctrine?
Yes, because it contradicts Holy Tradition and what the Church has always done.

I don't think so.
You are grossly misinformed and have been deceived by whomever taught you this erroneous doctrine
All of the covenants God has ever made run concurrently:
Adamic
Noahide
Abrahamic
Mosaic
Davidic
New Covenant

I appreciate many, many things about Traditional Catholicism, especially its commitment to traditional morals. I myself attend a Latin Mass whenever I can. It's one of the reasons I monitor this forum.

But I'm really just a regular Magisterial Catholic. I am so opposed to the abuses done in the "spirit of Vatican 2," but Vatican 2 itself stands, IMHO.

Zionism, which you are promoting was condemned by Pope St Pius X. It denies the New Covenant. The Old Covenant is fulfilled superseded by the New Covenant/New Testament Church and priesthood.
 
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AvilaSurfer

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Latin mass is outdated anyway. For me, it is not the mass of the people. Latin, was never the language of the people. It was only the language of the church. It was not the language of Christ.
Jesus spoke Aramaic. Should we have masses in Aramaic? If you don't like Latin, don't go to a Latin mass.
 
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Goatee

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Jesus spoke Aramaic. Should we have masses in Aramaic? If you don't like Latin, don't go to a Latin mass.

I dont go to Latin mass. I have done but found it very alien.

The mass should be in a persons own language. Of which it is in this day and age.

Latin is of no use in the real Mass. It was only ever the language of the Church and it alienated thousands and thousands of people across the world.

I thank God for giving us the Mass in our own languages. Latin mass is for the few.
 
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Open Heart

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Latin mass is outdated anyway. For me, it is not the mass of the people. Latin, was never the language of the people. It was only the language of the church. It was not the language of Christ.
Some of us prefer it. To me, having the parts of mass in Latin, especially SUNG in Latin, is just beautiful beyond words -- Latin is simply a more beautiful language with all its wide open vowels, soft consonants, and rolled r's. It's not like I don't know what the priest is saying. That's the benefit of going back and forth between Latin and English.
 
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Methesinner

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The Church is not supersessionist. Nostra Aetate is infallible dogma. Given time, as Nostra Aetate continues to unfold, the term "New Israel" will be dropped from the Church.

Yes it is and the term will only e dropped by heretics and liberals that are falling for zionism. The Church IS the new Israel. How can one read the new testament and think otherwise? Many Popes in the past have even said this. You cant just change a teaching to be PC
 
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Open Heart

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Yes it is and the term will only e dropped by heretics and liberals that are falling for zionism. The Church IS the new Israel. How can one read the new testament and think otherwise? Many Popes in the past have even said this. You cant just change a teaching to be PC
If the Church is the New Israel, what does that make Israel? Chopped liver?

It is not a change in doctrine. It is an unfolding of doctrine, based on how "Israel" was used in the NT.
 
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Virgil the Roman

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The Church is the New Israel. Whenever the Jews had a chance to follow the Messias, a faithful minority followed after Him. They are the 'remnant'. And Israel was opened to all races and tribes and nations: the New Covenant or New Israel is greater than the old. Modern-day political Israel is just a fabrication from the minds of Secular Zionist Jews, nothing more. It has nothing to do with historical, biblical, or ecclesiastical Israel. This clarifies it for you. Remember, now, in Christ there are neither Jew nor Greek; neither Gentile nor Barbarian. Let's not conflate race or ethnicity with salvation or pre-imminence within the Kingdom of Israel --- David's Kingdom --- upon the throne of which Christ ALONE sits.
 
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Virgil the Roman

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So "Israel" does exist today: She is the Church of God. A minority of Jews belong to her ("I have saved 7,000 who did not bend the knee to Baal, a faithful remnant"); for the majority apostatised and rejects Jesus as the Christ and true Messias-- the Son of God. So Israel did not cease. She remains with Christ in the New Testament which fulfilled, completed, and now is greater than that of the Old Covenants which by signs and symbols could not merit or provide Salvation. Now, the New Testament does that, but doesn't limit salvation to the Jews only, but expands it and enables ALL the potential to be saved and cleansed of their sins!
 
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Virgil the Roman

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Scripture calls those Jews who do not accept Jesus as the true Christ and Messias, "The Synagogue of Satan" for their perfidy and refusal to believe the word of God. Are you or I greater than Christ? Can we accept the rejection of Christ and overlook it? Let's pray for the Jews' conversion to Christ and His True religion. Let's not embrace false doctrines such as 'dispensationalism' or the like.
 
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