Will people go to Hell for worshipping on Sunday?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

There really shouldn't be any controversy about it.

It seems that is correct, yes, but just as in the first century, as written, there are many divisions.... and (it was good?) so that the true may be clearly seen (in contrast?) .

 

[OldWiseGuy]

It seems that is correct, yes, but just as in the first century, as written, there are many divisions.... and (it was good?) so that the true may be clearly seen (in contrast?) .

One is pretty important, the other not so much.

 

[Silverback]

Absolutely not. That teaching is heresy. It denies the finished work of the Lord Jesus. Our salvation is purely based on what He has done for us by His death and resurrection. I was in the military (navy) for the first 3 years of my Christian life. I went to church when and where I could. I worked most Saturdays. I had no idea about the dead, religious sabbatarian doctrine. Lord Jesus came to set us free, not saddle us with pointless laws and regulations that achieve nothing for us spiritually.

Agreed, very good, are you still in the Navy (RAN ?) Just curious, I retired from US Navy in 2003, I understand "worshiping when and where" Non military types will never understand military life, particularly the Navy.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

So we really don't need to "go on to perfection" by fulfilling the real intent of the law?

OC: Abstain from evil.
NC: Do what is good.

the original sin in the Garden of Eden was disobedience of the word of GOD

Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

the original sin in the Garden of Eden was disobedience of the word of GOD

I think the LAST SIN, (so to speak), before he is destroyed or stopped , in the APocalypse,
is the enemy of Christ
"far from TORAH", transgressing, opposing all TORAH, opposing JESUS, opposing JESUS' children.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

I think the LAST SIN, (so to speak), before he is destroyed or stopped , in the APocalypse,
is the enemy of Christ
"far from TORAH", transgressing, opposing all TORAH, opposing JESUS, opposing JESUS' children.

The last sin is all about worship

Revelation 14:7
Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Revelation 13:4
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Revelation 13:12
And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Revelation 22:9
Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

QUOTE="Original Happy Camper, post: 74512774, member: 385722"]The last sin is all about worship

Revelation 14:7
Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Revelation 13:4
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Revelation 13:12
And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Revelation 22:9
Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.[/QUOTE
======================================================
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James 2:12
Keep speaking and acting like people who will be judged by a Torah which gives freedom.
1 John 3:4
Everyone who keeps sinning is violating Torah — indeed, sin is violation of Torah.

 

[Neogaia777]

Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

He was talking about the Pharisees about the OT law here you know...?

If ye love me, keep my commandments.

And, "what were Jesus commands or great commandments again"...? Were they not all about Love, Mercy, Grace, and Forgiveness, etc, and that these are to "supersede" any and all other laws, (the OT "letter of the law" most especially) and that there would be many, many times when obeying "those laws" would have to supersede them, or those other laws, as Jesus shows us and testifies to personally and intimately and directly by his own life, etc...? And threw in the Pharisees faces, etc...

This man breaks the Sabbath, sins and does not keep the law, etc, etc, etc...

There would be, and are, many, many times when obeying Jesus commands or commandments would be appearing to some to be breaking and violating the others, or the OT letter of the law, as he Himself shows us, but actually would not be, etc...

It is the difference between "the letter of a law", and it's "Spirit", or the Spirit of it, etc...

I desire Mercy, not sacrifice!

You have ignored the weightier matters of the law, or ignored the times in which obeying His (Jesus) commands or rules or commandments or laws, to the letter, would be appearing to many to breaking or violating the letter of the OT law, but actually would not be, etc...

So you have shown no Mercy by the times when you chose the letter of it, over it's Spirit of it, etc, that is supposed to supersede the letter of it, etc...

God Bless!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Matthew 24:12 - Bible Gateway

https://www.biblegateway.com › verse
and many people's love will grow cold because of increased distance from Torah. CEV. Evil will spread and cause many people to stop loving others. DARBY.


And because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end, he shall be saved.—Matthew 24:12-13

 

[Neogaia777]

James 2:12
Keep speaking and acting like people who will be judged by a Torah which gives freedom.
1 John 3:4
Everyone who keeps sinning is violating Torah — indeed, sin is violation of Torah.

The OT letter of the Law does not give or bring freedom, and was never meant to either, and much of the scripture is very clear on this, and I think you actually do "know this" also...

And, you are not sinless, so please stop pretending (1 John 8-10)

And "keeping the sayings of the book" or this book, does not mean perfectly keeping all the OT letter of the law covenant either, and much of scripture is very clear on "that" as well, and I think you know this too...

God Bless!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Part 11 - Matthew 24:12-13 Increased Lawlessness by Thomas Ice

"This time of lawlessness is surely an unusual time in all human history. Leon Morris says that it is “a way of life that refuses to recognize any divine law, which is identical for Matthew with a way of life in which one’s neighbor no longer has any legal claim.” 2 Our Lord has been expounding upon the qualitative nature of the spiritual condition of unbelievers that will characterize the tribulation period, specially the first half. This description of lawlessness strikes a parallel to Paul’s description of the “man of lawless” in 2 Thessalonians 2:3. This passage (Matthew 24) is building toward the abomination of desolation (Matthew 24:15), which will be committed by the antichrist in the middle of the tribulation. Paul, in 2 Thessalonians 2, combines the man of lawlessness with the abomination of desolation when he says, “the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God” (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4). Robert Govett tells us: “It is this abounding of lawlessness which gives to Antichrist his power both against the Jew and the temple.” 3

What does the phrase “is increased” mean in this context. Commentators are in agreement that it means unusually rapid or exponential increase. Morris notes that “the thought is that in the days of which Jesus is speaking lawlessness will not simply increase a little: it will be multiplied.” 4 James Morison observes that “all other passages where the verb (pléthuno) occurs, it is translated multiply.” 5 This clearly fits the idea of future tribulation period where lawlessness will reach the highest levels in all of human history. We think it is bad today, cheer up it will be even worse during this unique seven-year period of history."

 

[Original Happy Camper]

He was talking about the Pharisees about the OT law here you know...?



And, "what were Jesus commands or great commandments again"...? Were they not all about Love, Mercy, Grace, and Forgiveness, etc, and that these are to "supersede" any and all other laws, (the OT "letter of the law" most especially) and that there would be many, many times when obeying "those laws" would have to supersede them, or those other laws, as Jesus shows us and testifies to personally and intimately and directly by his own life, etc...? And threw in the Pharisees faces, etc...

This man breaks the Sabbath, sins and does not keep the law, etc, etc, etc...

There would be, and are, many, many times when obeying Jesus commands or commandments would be appearing to some to be breaking and violating the others, or the OT letter of the law, as he Himself shows us, but actually would not be, etc...

It is the difference between "the letter of a law", and it's "Spirit", or the Spirit of it, etc...

I desire Mercy, not sacrifice!

You have ignored the weightier matters of the law, or ignored the times in which obeying His (Jesus) commands or rules or commandments or laws, to the letter, would be appearing to many to breaking or violating the letter of the OT law, but actually would not be, etc...

So you have shown no Mercy by the times when you chose the letter of it, over it's Spirit of it, etc, that is supposed to supersede the letter of it, etc...

God Bless!

lets agree to disagree

 

[Neogaia777]

Matthew 24:12 - Bible Gateway

https://www.biblegateway.com › verse
and many people's love will grow cold because of increased distance from Torah. CEV. Evil will spread and cause many people to stop loving others. DARBY.


And because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end, he shall be saved.—Matthew 24:12-13

What do you mean or what are you intending to say or imply by "distance from the Torah"...?

Cause I'm assuming that you, like many others, are just meaning "only the letter of the OT law covenant only", which is not even by far "all of the Torah" etc, it is only part of it, and not the part that is or was ever, ever meant to save either...

God Bless!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

"LOVE WILL GROW COLD

The result of lawless increasing will be that “most people’s love will grow cold.” There is a cause effect relationship in this passage. The phrase “most people” is literally “the many.” Morris tells us that in this context, “’the many,’ indicates the majority;…‘most of you.’” 6 This is one of the reasons I think it is speaking of the unbelieving world, as opposed to believers. The rest of Scripture does not support the notion that most believers will be characterized by apostasy during the tribulation, instead, this is the state in which the world in general is characterized. “This seems more related to the general condition of the world,” says Ed Glasscock, “than to the followers of Jesus.” 7

What does Jesus mean when he says, “love will grow cold.” The expression itself is clear: loss of love. The main significance is to see the cause/effect relationship between lawlessness and loss of love. Morris explains it well:

But real love is impossible for the lawless person. By definition the lawless person is motivated by personal, selfish concerns, not by any regard for others or for the rules that govern our intercourse with one another. So with the upsurge of lawlessness there is a cooling off of love. The one necessarily involves the other. 8

It is in just such an environment that will facilitate the man of lawlessness of 2 Thessalonians 2 to set up his image in God’s rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem. And, it is to just such an act that Jesus’ current discourse is moving (Matthew 24:15)." <
Matthew 24:15 New International Version (NIV)
15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’a]">[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—>


Part 11 - Matthew 24:12-13 Increased Lawlessness by Thomas Ice

 

[Neogaia777]

Part 11 - Matthew 24:12-13 Increased Lawlessness by Thomas Ice

"This time of lawlessness is surely an unusual time in all human history. Leon Morris says that it is “a way of life that refuses to recognize any divine law, which is identical for Matthew with a way of life in which one’s neighbor no longer has any legal claim.” 2 Our Lord has been expounding upon the qualitative nature of the spiritual condition of unbelievers that will characterize the tribulation period, specially the first half. This description of lawlessness strikes a parallel to Paul’s description of the “man of lawless” in 2 Thessalonians 2:3. This passage (Matthew 24) is building toward the abomination of desolation (Matthew 24:15), which will be committed by the antichrist in the middle of the tribulation. Paul, in 2 Thessalonians 2, combines the man of lawlessness with the abomination of desolation when he says, “the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God” (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4). Robert Govett tells us: “It is this abounding of lawlessness which gives to Antichrist his power both against the Jew and the temple.” 3

What does the phrase “is increased” mean in this context. Commentators are in agreement that it means unusually rapid or exponential increase. Morris notes that “the thought is that in the days of which Jesus is speaking lawlessness will not simply increase a little: it will be multiplied.” 4 James Morison observes that “all other passages where the verb (pléthuno) occurs, it is translated multiply.” 5 This clearly fits the idea of future tribulation period where lawlessness will reach the highest levels in all of human history. We think it is bad today, cheer up it will be even worse during this unique seven-year period of history."

I follow the two laws Jesus gave fully and to the letter, do you...?

Even and most especially where they might seem to conflict with "other laws" etc, cause they do and will at times, etc...

But I am also aware that, "even that", does not save me as well, but are you aware of that...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

"LOVE WILL GROW COLD

The result of lawless increasing will be that “most people’s love will grow cold.” There is a cause effect relationship in this passage. The phrase “most people” is literally “the many.” Morris tells us that in this context, “’the many,’ indicates the majority;…‘most of you.’” 6 This is one of the reasons I think it is speaking of the unbelieving world, as opposed to believers. The rest of Scripture does not support the notion that most believers will be characterized by apostasy during the tribulation, instead, this is the state in which the world in general is characterized. “This seems more related to the general condition of the world,” says Ed Glasscock, “than to the followers of Jesus.” 7

What does Jesus mean when he says, “love will grow cold.” The expression itself is clear: loss of love. The main significance is to see the cause/effect relationship between lawlessness and loss of love. Morris explains it well:

But real love is impossible for the lawless person. By definition the lawless person is motivated by personal, selfish concerns, not by any regard for others or for the rules that govern our intercourse with one another. So with the upsurge of lawlessness there is a cooling off of love. The one necessarily involves the other. 8

It is in just such an environment that will facilitate the man of lawlessness of 2 Thessalonians 2 to set up his image in God’s rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem. And, it is to just such an act that Jesus’ current discourse is moving (Matthew 24:15)." <
Matthew 24:15 New International Version (NIV)
15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’a]">[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—>


Part 11 - Matthew 24:12-13 Increased Lawlessness by Thomas Ice

OK, well, if you speaking about most of the people of the world, in the last days, etc, I tend to fully agree with you... Sorry man, or if I was starting to get to the point of taking things a bit to personally, K...?

You have my apologies, sorry...

God Bless!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Matthew 23:28 (Jesus to disobedient religious leaders)
CEB
In the same way you look righteous to people. But inside you are full of pretense and rebellion.
CJB
Likewise, you appear to people from the outside to be good and honest, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and far from Torah.
CEV
That’s what you are like. Outside you look good, but inside you are evil and only pretend to be good.
DARBY
Thus also *ye*, outwardly ye appear righteous to men, but within are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

 

[twin.spin]

The answer is found in Scripture: no

Colossians 2:16
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.​

Being Jesus fulfilled the every demand the law requires, we are under grace. To argue otherwise is in effect disputing Jesus' perfect life and his exclamation on the cross: IT IS FINISHED! … and so be subjected to what God says:

Galatians 3:10
For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”​

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The answer is found in Scripture: no

Colossians 2:16
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.​

Being Jesus fulfilled the every demand the law requires, we are under grace. To argue otherwise is in effect disputing Jesus' perfect life and his exclamation on the cross: IT IS FINISHED! … and so be subjected to what God says:

Galatians 3:10
For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”​

Under grace, why does so many in multitudes refuse to stop worshiping demons and are resurrected to judgment and condemnation/ destruction (in the lake of fire) ?

 

[twin.spin]

Under grace, why does so many in multitudes refuse to stop worshiping demons and are resurrected to judgment and condemnation/ destruction (in the lake of fire) ?

Jesus' explanation to the parable of the weeds in Matthew 13:36-43 is one reason for why.

​