Will our war against climate change be won or lost in our oceans?

[eclipsenow]

I'm now convinced that a major new front is opening up in our war against climate change. Dirty energy is one front, but the next front where climate change could be won or lost is in our oceans. We started to make climate change worse when we started industrial scale whaling and fishing. The whale population today is 1% of what it was. It's a similar story with the larger fish. Why does this matter? Water turnover. Larger sea life swam up and down through the water column, dragging nutrients with them. The lack of those nutrients today is killing the world's kelp forests - they're effectively starving to death. Whales used to poo huge volumes of nutrients out at the top of the water column - fertilising the ocean there. This and their movement stimulated the ocean food chain, increasing CO2 uptake. Those natural mechanisms are almost dead. Add to this the fact that climate change warms the surface waters so much that the thermocline (warmer waters) are now deeper, making it harder for the same wind to turnover the water column and bring up nutrients. Ocean nutrients are trapped too deep. Worldwide we see that the kelp forests are simply starving to death. It's SO serious I'm convinced that clean energy is one front - and ocean management and restoration is a second major front in the climate wars. But there is hope on the way! This 8 minute summary from the BBC covers revolutions in Australian kelp farming and what we have learned.

To go deeper, watch the presentation that starts with Dr Brian Von Herzen from Cambridge University which starts at 28 minutes in: it's keyframed to the right spot. The threats from an overheated ocean with fixed water layers are almost incomprehensible - but the potential to fix this problem and benefit from it are also exponential. The problem is the solution - if the water layers are fixed - let's mix them up! The answer is floating deep sea platforms to grow kelp. Floating solar farms pump up the nutrient rich water from hundreds of meters below, growing kelp which will give us animal feed, fertiliser, food, medicine, plastics, artificial skin for medicine, and ultimately fund GIGATONS of carbon sequestration. And they're on the way! Let's demand our super funds invest in these rigs to both save the climate and our super.

 

[Martinius]

I appreciate your post, and share your concern. But there is no WAR against climate change. We are barely skirmishing, and most of that is bluster. It is like building an army with wooden rifles and cardboard artillery, and making pronouncements and promises about all we are doing that accomplish very little.

I also suspect there is little we can do to win this war. At best, we may be able to slow down the enemy for a decade or two, but the unrelenting forces of nature will eventually overwhelm whatever meager defenses we erect.

 

[eclipsenow]

I also suspect there is little we can do to win this war. At best, we may be able to slow down the enemy for a decade or two, but the unrelenting forces of nature will eventually overwhelm whatever meager defenses we erect.

Ah, but Solar Radiation Management can slow it for a seductively cheap price - but we'd be crazy to cancel out all the warming. There might be a nice half way point according to Dr David Keith where we cancel HALF our warming only. (Any more risks being accused of 'weather warfare' against nations like India who might lose their monsoon and cause serious water shortages.)

THEN we could - apparently - scale up the seaweed farms to truly awe inspiring levels and return carbon levels to 350ppm this century if we really get going.

…could produce sufficient biomethane to replace all of today’s needs in fossil-fuel energy, while removing 53 billion tonnes of CO₂ per year from the atmosphere… This amount of biomass could also increase sustainable fish production to potentially provide 200 kilograms per year, per person, for 10 billion people. Additional benefits are reduction in ocean acidification and increased ocean primary productivity and biodiversity.​

How farming giant seaweed can feed fish and fix the climate

 

[SkyWriting]

I appreciate your post, and share your concern. But there is no WAR against climate change. We are barely skirmishing, and most of that is bluster. It is like building an army with wooden rifles and cardboard artillery, and making pronouncements and promises about all we are doing that accomplish very little.

I also suspect there is little we can do to win this war. At best, we may be able to slow down the enemy for a decade or two, but the unrelenting forces of nature will eventually overwhelm whatever meager defenses we erect.

We could adjust our thermostats 1 degree. We could reduce traffic speeds by 5 miles per hour.
We could limit auto's to 70 MPH. We could do thousands of things to reduce carbon.
So far, not one new law of this kind. The public has no interest.

 

[eclipsenow]

We could adjust our thermostats 1 degree. We could reduce traffic speeds by 5 miles per hour.
We could limit auto's to 70 MPH. We could do thousands of things to reduce carbon.
So far, not one new law of this kind. The public has no interest.

That's because lifestyle cuts like this are punitive and not really the answer. Abundant clean energy is the answer. Sustainable food systems like the seaweed and shellfish rigs I mentioned above are the answer - and they also stimulate the whole ocean to come back to life and work harder at fixing climate change. Breeder reactors that eat nuclear waste are the answer - see my sig.

Another answer that people in Portland might understand but your average exurbia resident wouldn't is better town planning. It's a matter of providing CHOICE to consumers - but in this case - a viable choice to have a car free life! When you live the majority of the time without a car, it's super cheap to just hire one when you actually need it.

OFF TOPIC....

Most suburban wastelands are crying out for areas of cultural significance and community density. Let's imagine a different town where car use will drop 90% compared to today. How to change a suburb?

First, pick an ugly highway strip and build some light rail stops down it. (Or even trackless trams which are cheaper and quicker to install Trackless trams v light rail? It's not a contest – both can improve our cities.) Then build a culturally attractive town square or village green next to each tram stop. Surround the square with shops and services like cafes, a bakery, stationery store, Post Office and even schools. Then surround this town square with 4 story eco-apartments and a variety of homes, all within a 5 minute walk of the shops. This is New Urbanism - a place of work, rest, and play that's vibrant and social. Unlike an oversized suburban Mega-mall which is a 20 minute drive away (plus parking time!), the shops are a 5 minute walk away. Unlike a Mega-mall serving 300,000 people from suburbs scattered far and wide, the town square serves the local 15,000 people.

Instead of being oversized and full of strangers, they are intimate and community creating. Instead of loneliness becoming the public health epidemic it is today, we create community, encourage walking and reduce obesity. It makes a car-free lifestyle viable for the poor, increases community interaction, makes the neighbourhood safer for women and children, and only occupies 10% of the land that suburban sprawl demands. It decreases our carbon emissions, traffic jams, loneliness, environmental impact, and even the size of our waistlines! Videos and studies here Rezone

 

[SkyWriting]

That's because lifestyle cuts like this are punitive and not really the answer.

It's because people really have no interest in reducing carbon use, as I said.
Entire nations are looking forward to having air conditioning and central heat.
And cars.

 

[SkyWriting]

Then build a culturally attractive town square or village green next to each tram stop. Surround the square with shops and services like cafes, a bakery, stationery store, Post Office and even schools. Then surround this town square with 4 story eco-apartments and a variety of homes, all within a 5 minute walk of the shops. This is New Urbanism - a place of work, rest, and play that's vibrant and social. Unlike an oversized suburban Mega-mall which is a 20 minute drive away (plus parking time!), the shops are a 5 minute walk away.

We have a couple of these built recently and they are failing.

Neighborhood stores are boarded up.
Libraries and any shopping venue is a ghost town.


Schools are often closed weeks at a time. Cafe's are mostly done for. People are abandoning apartment buildings and homes with lots sell instantly due to COVID concerns long term.

Yes the ghost town mega malls are attracting nationwide attention as people break in and explore the dead buildings as a challenge, coast to coast.

Our street tram is popular. Mostly because of business sponsorship, it's been free, so far.

 

[eclipsenow]

We have a couple of these built recently and they are failing.
Libraries and any shopping venue is a ghost town. Schools are often closed weeks at a time.
Cafe's are mostly done for. People are abandoning apartment buildings and homes with lots sell instantly.
Neighborhood stores are boarded up.
Yes the ghost town mega malls are attracting nationwide attention as people break in and explore the dead buildings as a challenge, coast to coast.

Our street tram is popular. Mostly because of business sponsorship, it's been free.

Pandemic, or something else?

 

[SkyWriting]

Pandemic, or something else?

The changes in the world economy and how people gather.
This started about 15 years ago I think.

 

[eclipsenow]

The changes in the world economy and how people gather.
This started about 15 years ago I think.
View attachment 310315

I see - you're talking about the great emptying out of malls and certain suburbs after the GFC.
Here's the irony. Many of those malls ended up becoming dense and diverse residential space and office space and some light commercial shops (but not as many), which mimics what I'm talking about just at a smaller scale. If you create medium density housing, many services can become local and walkable. But it's about there being a communal, social public space surrounded by shops and services where people can hang out.

 

[Hans Blaster]

We could adjust our thermostats 1 degree. We could reduce traffic speeds by 5 miles per hour.
We could limit auto's to 70 MPH. We could do thousands of things to reduce carbon.
So far, not one new law of this kind. The public has no interest.

How about those places that cool with the AC in the summer to lower temperatures than they heat in the winter? They are also both too cool in the summer (when everyone is wearing light clothing) and too warm in the winter (when everyone is wearing warmer clothing). It is so annoying (and wastes so much energy).

 

[eclipsenow]

How about those places that cool with the AC in the summer to lower temperatures than they heat in the winter? They are also both too cool in the summer (when everyone is wearing light clothing) and too warm in the winter (when everyone is wearing warmer clothing). It is so annoying (and wastes so much energy).

Energy efficiency measures are one thing.
Replacing ALL energy with reliable baseload clean nuclear energy is another

 

[Hans Blaster]

Energy efficiency measures are one thing.
Replacing ALL energy with reliable baseload clean nuclear energy is another

I'm OK with placing a (modern, gen 3/4) nuclear plant on the site of nearly any decommissioned coal plant. I'd be OK with one at the site ~10 miles from my house.

 

[SkyWriting]

I'm OK with placing a (modern, gen 3/4) nuclear plant on the site of nearly any decommissioned coal plant. I'd be OK with one at the site ~10 miles from my house.

Energy efficiency measures are one thing.
Replacing ALL energy with reliable baseload clean nuclear energy is another

As soon as we figure out what to do with the waste we already have.
Many plants are designed to store spent fuel on site. So far, the waste is there until
the plant is decommissioned.

 

[SkyWriting]

I see - you're talking about the great emptying out of malls and certain suburbs after the GFC.
Here's the irony. Many of those malls ended up becoming dense and diverse residential space and office space and some light commercial shops (but not as many), which mimics what I'm talking about just at a smaller scale. If you create medium density housing, many services can become local and walkable. But it's about there being a communal, social public space surrounded by shops and services where people can hang out.

Those are the ones struggling to stay in business. We have a couple of them in Milwaukee.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It's because people really have no interest in reducing carbon use, as I said.
Entire nations are looking forward to having air conditioning and central heat.
And cars.

Ever since WWII the US government has pushed the dream of home ownership. Both parties have supported that. People with money leaving the cities left them with a higher population of the poor and less money to deal with their problems. That only led more people to leaving the cities.


We may need a major paradigm shift to change human behavior. How do we get people to learn how to live together again? There has to be an end to continual moving away from one's problems.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm OK with placing a (modern, gen 3/4) nuclear plant on the site of nearly any decommissioned coal plant. I'd be OK with one at the site ~10 miles from my house.

Don't come running to me when your kids look like this fish:

 

[SkyWriting]

Ever since WWII the US government has pushed the dream of home ownership. Both parties have supported that. People with money leaving the cities left them with a higher population of the poor and less money to deal with their problems. That only led more people to leaving the cities.


We may need a major paradigm shift to change human behavior. How do we get people to learn how to live together again? There has to be an end to continual moving away from one's problems.

Well...here is the formula for all human behavior:

Just follow the four rules to change human behavior and you can accomplish anything.

 

[Martinius]

We could adjust our thermostats 1 degree. We could reduce traffic speeds by 5 miles per hour.
We could limit auto's to 70 MPH. We could do thousands of things to reduce carbon.
So far, not one new law of this kind. The public has no interest.

The key statement in this quoted post is: "The public has no interest."

We cannot solve the problems of climate change and the depletion of natural resources by leaving it to governments and businesses. It can be solved only through individual action. But the great majority of individuals have no interest. The few that do have interest either understand the impending climatic, resource and economic disasters that will affect future generations, or they are people whose livelihoods are already under siege by climate change and weather extremes.

The demand for short-term growth and profits over-ride any rational thinking and action to combat a problem that looks to be decades in the future.

 

[SkyWriting]

The key statement in this quoted post is: "The public has no interest."We cannot solve the problems of climate change and the depletion of natural resources by leaving it to governments and businesses. It can be solved only through individual action.

My point exactly. Here is what citizens are doing in my city to reduce carbon use. Consider that the speed limits are 35 MPH.