Will Humanity exhaust the possibilities of Evolution, or get stuck in a niche?

[AV1611VET]

I always considered it offensive.

Perhaps you don't savor the things that be of God?

Matthew 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

 

[SelfSim]

Sounds great...

Its a bit like what AC/DC's Angus Yound said about Brian Johnson's voice: 'Its quite angelic, really' ..

 

[SelfSim]

Perhaps you don't savor the things that be of God?

Matthew 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

I suppose God might be irrelevant and so substitute 'the things that be of God', with a more positive attitude and think of humans as only occasionally displaying nastiness, yet are able to self-recognise that, then make our own amends .. on our own accord.
We are autonomous and thinking creatures .. so use those intrinsic capabilities!

 

[pitabread]

I've always found it to be fundamentally theological.

Except that it's not even in the Bible. It's the just the result of an interpretation of a mistranslation.

 

[dlamberth]

Except that it's not even in the Bible. It's the just the result of an interpretation of a mistranslation.

That would St. Augustine who lived from 354 to 430 who came up with the term.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Sure.

We're all sinners.

And anyone who says they don't sin, just sinned.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

And to be very clear:

I do not find the idea of sin to be a viable one. It is dependent on a god, and gods make no sense.

I spent 20 years having sin (and the notion that we are all sinners) preached at me for 20 years. I know what is meant by it and I just don't buy it.

I reject the book that these ideas come from because I do not find the ideas in it plausible. Whether it be the 500-year old version you're fond of, or the carefully curated 20th century translation that was used in my old Church.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What I don't understand is why a rational human being believes it.

Most of us are not rational. In fact almost all of us are irrational at times.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Indeed. If they cannot explain it in a way that others (more than just those who already agree) can understand, then they don't understand what they are defending.

The problem of course is that some refuse to understand.


Unfortunately over the years I have found that creationists never want to know what actually happened. Instead they are looking for excuses to keep believing as they do. None of them will try to properly test their beliefs. They will try to say that "You are testing God" and that is not allowed in the Bible when what we are actually doing is testing their beliefs about God.

 

[AV1611VET]

I spent 20 years having sin (and the notion that we are all sinners) preached at me for 20 years. I know what is meant by it and I just don't buy it.

Did you buy it for those twenty years?

If so, you just may be alive today because you did.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Did you buy it for those twenty years?

If so, you just may be alive today because you did.

Yes, I was a sucker.

There is nothing that the Church taught that could have saved my life from anything.

 

[AV1611VET]

There is nothing that the Church taught that could have saved my life from anything.

So for twenty years you were "suckered" into thinking sin existed ... right?

Can you think of a way that you're alive right now because you believed it?

Do you have any friends who are addicted to smoking? gambling? in prison? have AIDS? or whatever, because of their life choices?

 

[Subduction Zone]

So for twenty years you were "suckered" into thinking sin existed ... right?

Can you think of a way that you're alive right now because you believed it?

Do you have any friends who are addicted to smoking? gambling? in prison? have AIDS? or whatever, because of their life choices?

Why do you assume that a person cannot be self destructive while being a Christian? In fact I can name a practice that is self destructive that a higher percentage of Christians follow than atheists follow. The sad thing is that their actions will take others with them.

 

[AV1611VET]

Why do you assume that a person cannot be self destructive while being a Christian?

I'm asking a valid question, Sub.

How about you?

Did it ever occur to you that you may be alive today because you, or someone else, believes/believed in sin?

 

[Hans Blaster]

So for twenty years you were "suckered" into thinking sin existed ... right?

No, Jesus.

Can you think of a way that you're alive right now because you believed it?

Nope.

Do you have any friends who are addicted to smoking? gambling? in prison? have AIDS? or whatever, because of their life choices?

No. No. No. No. No.

 

[AV1611VET]

No, Jesus.

Hans, I'm trying to have a serious conversation here.

Didn't you say this:

I spent 20 years having sin (and the notion that we are all sinners) preached at me for 20 years. I know what is meant by it and I just don't buy it.

So "it" is Jesus now?

If my question is too hard, let's just drop "it," shall we?

 

[Hans Blaster]

Hans, I'm trying to have a serious conversation here.

For us to have a serious conversation about religion we would need to go elsewhere as a proper, systematic exposition of my positions and opinions on the subject is incompatible with the restrictions I am under on this site.

Didn't you say this:

So "it" is Jesus now?

If my question is too hard, let's just drop "it," shall we?

I was referring to "sin" earlier, but it is just a secondary effect. If I hadn't fallen for the whole God/Jesus thing, I wouldn't have given the "sin" thing any serious consideration.

I only believed any of it because I trusted the people who told me it was true. That is no path to truth. It is why I won't just take your word for it, nor "Paul"'s word or any other writer of the bible.

 

[AV1611VET]

I only believed any of it because I trusted the people who told me it was true. That is no path to truth. It is why I won't just take your word for it, nor "Paul"'s word or any other writer of the bible.

Fair enough. I'll drop it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm asking a valid question, Sub.

How about you?

Did it ever occur to you that you may be alive today because you, or someone else, believes/believed in sin?

It appears that you only think that you are. Why do you think that some Christian beliefs would make any difference? From what I have seen most Christians are decent in spite of their religion.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

It appears that you only think that you are. Why do you think that some Christian beliefs would make any difference? From what I have seen most Christians are decent in spite of their religion.

People without extremist views are generally pretty decent. There's no statistical evidence that the concept of sin has any bearing on life expectancy. Religious societies seem to score lower for many measures of well-being than secular ones, although it's not clear whether there's a causal relation and if so, in which direction it runs.

 

[AV1611VET]

Did it ever occur to you that you may be alive today because you, or someone else, believes/believed in sin?

It appears that you only think that you are.

I take it that's a NO?