Will Humanity exhaust the possibilities of Evolution, or get stuck in a niche?

[Phred]

That and the concept that sex is "evil". The Abrahamic religions all appear to play the game of "Heads I wind, tails you lose" when God is involved too. The inconsistency of reasoning and standards is what leads rational Christians to atheism.

It at least causes them to question. Exactly the opposite of what they're going for.

 

[AV1611VET]

The inconsistency of reasoning and standards is what leads rational Christians to atheism.

Nope.

Paul mentions what leads rational Christians to atheism, and it's not "inconsistency."

And if I quoted the verse, I'd get moderated.

 

[pitabread]

Oh, please.

We are BORN SINNERS.

Regardless of whether we're in a coma, or perfectly healthy, we are born sinners.

And we'll die sinners.

I always found the idea of original sin to be fundamentally illogical. Turns out, it's not even in the Bible. Who knew?

 

[AV1611VET]

I always found the idea of original sin to be fundamentally illogical.

I've always found it to be fundamentally theological.

 

[Phred]

It's actually a type of [theo]logic that you are incapable of fully understanding.

But for the record, by making Adam the federal head of the human race, Jesus, the "second Adam" only had to die once on the Cross for all mankind.

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Had it not been done that way, then Jesus would have to come back and die again and again for each person's sins.

Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

In short, Adam was made the federal head of the human race; and Jesus was made the spiritual head of the human race.

Oh I'm completely capable of understanding and rejecting it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Nope.

Paul mentions what leads rational Christians to atheism, and it's not "inconsistency."

And if I quoted the verse, I'd get moderated.

Paul was wrong. How do we know that? He never became an atheist.

 

[AV1611VET]

Oh I'm completely capable of understanding ...

Then why did you say this:

Here's a guy who we say is the first guy. Here's his wife. They sinned so now everyone is tainted by what they did.

You sound like you don't understand why God did that.

 

[Phred]

It's actually a type of [theo]logic that you are incapable of fully understanding.

But for the record, by making Adam the federal head of the human race, Jesus, the "second Adam" only had to die once on the Cross for all mankind.

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Had it not been done that way, then Jesus would have to come back and die again and again for each person's sins.

Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

In short, Adam was made the federal head of the human race; and Jesus was made the spiritual head of the human race.

Just to be clear, Jesus having to die for our sins is the second dumbest thing.

Anyone who has kids or siblings knows that you can't get away with punishing anyone but the person that did the crime. If your brother broke a lamp your brother is going to be punished for breaking that lamp. There is no way that your parents are ever going to punish you for what your brother did. And vice-versa. This whole, "Jesus died for your sins" nonsense... God wanted a sacrifice because you masturbated when you were 13? Give me a break.

This entire thing is about farmers complaining because the priests were slaughtering too many of the livestock, pretending it was a "blood sacrifice" and getting fat. So they had to end the practice. Jesus dying on the cross ended that sacrifice nonsense. It kept the farmers from revolting and slaughtering the priests. Christianity thus became more popular than the other religions that still wanted their bulls and goats and chickens.

Except for one thing. You can't appease a god with someone else's sacrifice. Especially when that god could just as easily have said, "You know what? I forgive you." It's that easy. God doesn't require anyone to die to forgive us. He just has to forgive us. Each individually. Which is how I know God isn't involved in any of this. Only stupid men could come up with something this convoluted and this stupid.

 

[Phred]

You sound like you don't understand why God did that.

What I don't understand is why a rational human being believes it.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Oh I'm completely capable of understanding and rejecting it.

Quite. The "you're incapable of understanding it" evasion is often wheeled out when contradictions or irrationalities are pointed out. It's the arrogant form of GodWorksInMysteriousWays.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Quite. The "you're incapable of understanding it" evasion is often wheeled out when contradictions or irrationalities are pointed out. It's the arrogant form of GodWorksInMysteriousWays.

Indeed. If they cannot explain it in a way that others (more than just those who already agree) can understand, then they don't understand what they are defending.

 

[Phred]

Quite. The "you're incapable of understanding it" evasion is often wheeled out when contradictions or irrationalities are pointed out. It's the arrogant form of GodWorksInMysteriousWays.

My favorite from days gone by was "You have a carnal mind. A carnal mind cannot understand this. Let me know when you've grown beyond that."

 

[AV1611VET]

Just to be clear, Jesus having to die for our sins is the second dumbest thing.

Anyone who has kids or siblings knows that you can't get away with punishing anyone but the person that did the crime. If your brother broke a lamp your brother is going to be punished for breaking that lamp. There is no way that your parents are ever going to punish you for what your brother did.

As I said before, even if hypothetically a person lived his life without committing a single sin,* he would still die and go to Hell.

Without the shed blood of Jesus Christ, he would have to atone for his own sin nature.

And that means he would have to stay there for all eternity.

* For the record though, dying without getting saved first is itself a sin. Specifically it's called "Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost." So living all your life "sinless" is an impossibility.

 

[AV1611VET]

What I don't understand is why a rational human being believes it.

Hell is full of "rational human beings."

 

[AV1611VET]

Indeed. If they cannot explain it in a way that others (more than just those who already agree) can understand, then they don't understand what they are defending.

Paul says you can't understand -- not without God to assist you.

Colossians 2:1 For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh;
2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

 

[AV1611VET]

My favorite from days gone by was "You have a carnal mind. A carnal mind cannot understand this. Let me know when you've grown beyond that."

I don't think you know the difference between the tree trunk (sin nature) and the fruit (individual sins).

 

[SelfSim]

It's actually a type of [theo]logic that you are incapable of fully understanding.

But for the record, by making Adam the federal head of the human race, Jesus, the "second Adam" only had to die once on the Cross for all mankind
...
In short, Adam was made the federal head of the human race; and Jesus was made the spiritual head of the human race.

Have you ever stopped to consider a model other than a hierarchical one?

 

[SelfSim]

I've always found it to be fundamentally theological.

I always considered it offensive.

 

[AV1611VET]

Have you ever stopped to consider a model other than a hierarchical one?

Of course not.

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Hell is full of "rational human beings."

Sounds great...