Will God Survive Science ??

[Alexandre Fedorovski]

I invite you to discuss the main theses of an interview with an outstanding American journalist and writer Dan Brown. No emotions, only the arguments "for" or "against", please.

DAN BROWN:
"Look at the story: no god has survived the development of science. In ancient times we had a whole pantheon of gods needed to explain everything we did not understand, from tides to sunrise. Over time, science intervened, and it became clear that the tides had nothing to do with Poseidon, and lightning had nothing to do with Thor. And these gods began to disappear. My novel raises the question of whether we truly believe that today's gods will survive and retain their power over people in a hundred years, five hundred years, a thousand years".

"I believe that in a couple of decades we will be closely connected with each other at that mental and spiritual level, which is not yet possible for us, and our personal experience will expand not through spiritual practices, but through these deep internal connections with each other.

This is my personal conviction, due to conversations with serious scientists and the study of theological works. Over the next decades, our biological species will receive a kind of global consciousness, which will become our divine. I think that our need for the external God who sits in the heavens and judges us, to whom we ask questions, which we ask for help, - the need for this God will decrease and eventually disappear".

"... terrorism has nothing to do with religion. I am convinced of this. The feelings of believers are always covered by incitement to political violence. I think that the sources of terrorism must be sought in political injustice, inequality.

Religious beliefs in this case are simply used as an excuse, because genuine faith only inspires people. Today we associate international terrorism exclusively with Muslims and Islam, but if we look at the situation more closely, it can be seen that many different religions and philosophical ideas are put there. In my own country, strange things are happening all the time, forcing to recall the trials of witches and the holy Inquisition. Religion has always been used to incite violence, which, it seems to me, is always politically motivated."

"... Of the nine billion people on the planet, there are about a billion atheists who, by the way, feel great. And that's what I think: religion serves its purpose, and it does a lot of good. But the world has changed, so that faith has ceased to be a necessary condition for a harmonious existence.

Of course, God gives people moral guidelines, and this is an effective support system. It is very difficult for people to accept the idea of randomness of chaos, it is hard for them to experience undeserved setbacks, tragedies. When something bad happens, it is easier to accept this with the words "this is His will," "this is God's plan." It gives us strength, even if it's not true.

But it seems to me personally that in the life of accidents it is always a little more than it seems. And if a tree fell on your car - this is not God's business, it's just an accident. I do not know if I answered the question.

Let me dwell on the fact that atheists and believers should get along. And for this two things must happen. Atheists must recognize that in the world there is a huge amount of good that is committed by people from religious beliefs. And believers have to admit that they have no exclusive right to morality and that people who do not believe in God can also be good people who can be kind people, able to compassion and help others...

 

[mindlight]

I invite you to discuss the main theses of an interview with an outstanding American journalist and writer Dan Brown. No emotions, only the arguments "for" or "against", please.

DAN BROWN:
"Look at the story: no god has survived the development of science. In ancient times we had a whole pantheon of gods needed to explain everything we did not understand, from tides to sunrise. Over time, science intervened, and it became clear that the tides had nothing to do with Poseidon, and lightning had nothing to do with Thor. And these gods began to disappear. My novel raises the question of whether we truly believe that today's gods will survive and retain their power over people in a hundred years, five hundred years, a thousand years".

"I believe that in a couple of decades we will be closely connected with each other at that mental and spiritual level, which is not yet possible for us, and our personal experience will expand not through spiritual practices, but through these deep internal connections with each other.

This is my personal conviction, due to conversations with serious scientists and the study of theological works. Over the next decades, our biological species will receive a kind of global consciousness, which will become our divine. I think that our need for the external God who sits in the heavens and judges us, to whom we ask questions, which we ask for help, - the need for this God will decrease and eventually disappear".

"... terrorism has nothing to do with religion. I am convinced of this. The feelings of believers are always covered by incitement to political violence. I think that the sources of terrorism must be sought in political injustice, inequality.

Religious beliefs in this case are simply used as an excuse, because genuine faith only inspires people. Today we associate international terrorism exclusively with Muslims and Islam, but if we look at the situation more closely, it can be seen that many different religions and philosophical ideas are put there. In my own country, strange things are happening all the time, forcing to recall the trials of witches and the holy Inquisition. Religion has always been used to incite violence, which, it seems to me, is always politically motivated."

"... Of the nine billion people on the planet, there are about a billion atheists who, by the way, feel great. And that's what I think: religion serves its purpose, and it does a lot of good. But the world has changed, so that faith has ceased to be a necessary condition for a harmonious existence.

Of course, God gives people moral guidelines, and this is an effective support system. It is very difficult for people to accept the idea of randomness of chaos, it is hard for them to experience undeserved setbacks, tragedies. When something bad happens, it is easier to accept this with the words "this is His will," "this is God's plan." It gives us strength, even if it's not true.

But it seems to me personally that in the life of accidents it is always a little more than it seems. And if a tree fell on your car - this is not God's business, it's just an accident. I do not know if I answered the question.

Let me dwell on the fact that atheists and believers should get along. And for this two things must happen. Atheists must recognize that in the world there is a huge amount of good that is committed by people from religious beliefs. And believers have to admit that they have no exclusive right to morality and that people who do not believe in God can also be good people who can be kind people, able to compassion and help others...

Science says we will all die, yet a man rose from the dead. Science says that water lacks the carbon to become wine yet water was turned into wine.....

It only takes a single miracle to overthrow science.

Religion is far from vanquished and the world remains an overwhelmingly religious place. The number of Christians is growing not shrinking. With the defeat of Communism the number of atheists has actually declined in recent years. Given that atheists generally have less kids than religious people and those that they have often convert the demographic trends are against atheism also.

There is a sickness in the mind of the Western world that may well be its underdoing. But sick people do not live for ever and revivals come periodically to remind us all where our focus should really be.

God is not threatened by science since scientists view the world he created and do not yet have the understanding he has of it and of how it works. There are no empirical proofs that can affirm or deny his existence and the deeper understanding that he has can overthrow their presuppositions in a moment.

Also many of the worlds greatest scientists are His!

So simple answer - yes he will!!!

 

[miamited]

Hi alexandre,

Or course, God will survive science. The real question is whether faith in Him will survive science?

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

 

[Ancient of Days]

Just more gibberish from the mind of a mortal man. "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness."
I will be sure to give Dan Brown a phone call when one of his children or close loved ones dies and remind him in his moment of suffering that its just all "randomness and chaos". He rebukes his own logic by replacing religion for religion. With an underlying motive of replacing Christianity with humanism/universalism.

 

[PeaceJoyLove]

The word God is just a word... What is in this word is based upon the reality/perception of the one whose word it is. By taking thought, man creates an image of who they think God to be and worship it. The truth be that God fills all in all. What is to be known of God comes from within our very being, though for a time HE is perceived as something outside/separate, as an over here or over there by observation with the five senses.

"I believe that in a couple of decades we will be closely connected with each other at that mental and spiritual level, which is not yet possible for us, and our personal experience will expand not through spiritual practices, but through these deep internal connections with each other.

Deep internal connection truth found throughout The Bible must be revealed. There being One spirit; one Father of us all; One God who fills all in all. It is the perception of lack (of this truth) that prevents a looking within, which is the only place it can be revealed/found. As Paul said, "But when God, who set me apart from my mother's womb and called me by His grace, was pleased to reveal His Son in me..." Paul also said of the mystery now being revealed, "Christ IN YOU, the hope of glory."

To love as God has always loved us...Impartially. Some have not awakened (spiritually) (for Paul also said we all have the mind of Christ) and many fail to 'see' where this revealing of Christ is taking place....internally. He who has seen the son has seen the father...when we can see the son within our very being and know as fully as we have always been know, we 'see' that internal spiritual connection with all and no longer perceive lack for HE causes us to 'see' as He 'sees' us...from the beginning. And HE said His Word would not return void...it will accomplish what HE sent it to do...until we stand in perfect love without fear...by the same spirit dwelling within us that rose Jesus from the grave...

Seeing that there is nothing that exists that did not come from God to bring about His purpose and plan He purposed in Himself from the beginning is to be single of eye...no longer dividing and measuring trying to 'be'...what we have always been from the beginning. Perception or where we are perceiving from is key for we are where we think we are, while Jesus said to take no thought...

 

[Tom 1]

I invite you to discuss the main theses of an interview with an outstanding American journalist and writer Dan Brown. No emotions, only the arguments "for" or "against", please.

DAN BROWN:
"Look at the story: no god has survived the development of science. In ancient times we had a whole pantheon of gods needed to explain everything we did not understand, from tides to sunrise. Over time, science intervened, and it became clear that the tides had nothing to do with Poseidon, and lightning had nothing to do with Thor. And these gods began to disappear. My novel raises the question of whether we truly believe that today's gods will survive and retain their power over people in a hundred years, five hundred years, a thousand years".

"I believe that in a couple of decades we will be closely connected with each other at that mental and spiritual level, which is not yet possible for us, and our personal experience will expand not through spiritual practices, but through these deep internal connections with each other.

This is my personal conviction, due to conversations with serious scientists and the study of theological works. Over the next decades, our biological species will receive a kind of global consciousness, which will become our divine. I think that our need for the external God who sits in the heavens and judges us, to whom we ask questions, which we ask for help, - the need for this God will decrease and eventually disappear".

"... terrorism has nothing to do with religion. I am convinced of this. The feelings of believers are always covered by incitement to political violence. I think that the sources of terrorism must be sought in political injustice, inequality.

Religious beliefs in this case are simply used as an excuse, because genuine faith only inspires people. Today we associate international terrorism exclusively with Muslims and Islam, but if we look at the situation more closely, it can be seen that many different religions and philosophical ideas are put there. In my own country, strange things are happening all the time, forcing to recall the trials of witches and the holy Inquisition. Religion has always been used to incite violence, which, it seems to me, is always politically motivated."

"... Of the nine billion people on the planet, there are about a billion atheists who, by the way, feel great. And that's what I think: religion serves its purpose, and it does a lot of good. But the world has changed, so that faith has ceased to be a necessary condition for a harmonious existence.

Of course, God gives people moral guidelines, and this is an effective support system. It is very difficult for people to accept the idea of randomness of chaos, it is hard for them to experience undeserved setbacks, tragedies. When something bad happens, it is easier to accept this with the words "this is His will," "this is God's plan." It gives us strength, even if it's not true.

But it seems to me personally that in the life of accidents it is always a little more than it seems. And if a tree fell on your car - this is not God's business, it's just an accident. I do not know if I answered the question.

Let me dwell on the fact that atheists and believers should get along. And for this two things must happen. Atheists must recognize that in the world there is a huge amount of good that is committed by people from religious beliefs. And believers have to admit that they have no exclusive right to morality and that people who do not believe in God can also be good people who can be kind people, able to compassion and help others...

I think to frame this question effectively you need to rexamine some of (what I assume are) your underlying assumptions. It’s true that many ancient religions, e.g the various changing polytheistic religions of the Ancient Near East, developed in part as a way of explaining how things work in the natural world, and the narrative of the Koran for example developed to deal with changing circumstances as the movement and its influence grew. The bible however isn’t a book about how the universe works, and it doesn’t change along with shifts in society etc. To understand that takes a lot of time and study - there’s no way around that, but without that in depth knowledge of what makes the bible unique this kind of question is pointless, as you’ll never understand the answers or even what the questions should be. A second assumption is the certainty and ability of science to provide an actual cohesive worldview. Like the vague and superficial notions most people have about the bible, the idea that science has it all figured out is an illusion, a belief that became outdated 50 or 60 years ago at least. Science is interesting, useful, etc etc but modern science is increasingly engaged in simply trying to reduce the uncertainty involved in figuring out how some elements of an enormously complex universe might work, what we actually know may amount to pretty much nothing at all, and the explanations provided to date may be only true in some relative sense. However you cut it knowledge of the universe and the theories we have to explain it are a fraction of a drop in an endless ocean that may appear to be entirely and completely different from another perspective. To put one uncertain set of ideas up against something you only have some superficial notions about isn’t likely to bear much fruit in itself.

 

[Sanoy]

Yeah I think science and something like Deism are destined to merge. It is already started, truth be told, as science is even know pondering a non God consciousness to evolution. Perhaps in the cell itself. I think that while full Theistic Evolution has played the seeming role of savior for this age, where faith could not abide, in the next age it will play a role in paving a straight and fast way out of the church and into this coming age. I have seen many attend the Church of God on Sunday, and the Church of Scientism Monday through Saturday. (Not Science but Scientism). I think it is very easy in such a case to simply no longer go to church and keep the same beliefs.

 

[SeventyOne]

This is my personal conviction, due to conversations with serious scientists and the study of theological works. Over the next decades, our biological species will receive a kind of global consciousness, which will become our divine. I think that our need for the external God who sits in the heavens and judges us, to whom we ask questions, which we ask for help, - the need for this God will decrease and eventually disappear".

This is one of the most arrogant things I've ever heard. This is a good reminder that such self-absorbed people do actually exist in the world. Thankfully, I don't have to interact with such people on a daily basis.

As for God surviving science, God made science. There are only conflicts because we aren't smart enough to fully understand it yet. The question is better asked will we survive our own ignorance.

 

[High Fidelity]

Honestly, probably not. Faith is, well, faith. Science is providing advances and inventions that are the wonders of the modern world to what the Apostles and Jesus were to the old world.

Science is gaining more and more credibility in providing results whereas faith will always be faith. Without physical revelation, well, I don't think it'll survive many more generations beyond a minority population.

Movements like the Charismatic movement are indicative of the change in times. It's very experiential and provides people with what is to them a tangible result.

 

[Dave-W]

Since GOD will "survive" the destruction of the Universe, I would say any scientific theory or discovery would be no sweat.

 

[Dave-W]

This is my personal conviction, due to conversations with serious scientists and the study of theological works. Over the next decades, our biological species will receive a kind of global consciousness, which will become our divine. I think that our need for the external God who sits in the heavens and judges us, to whom we ask questions, which we ask for help, - the need for this God will decrease and eventually disappear".

What we may perceive as a human "need for god;" and the existence of God Himself are 2 very different things.

 

[Macril]

It only takes a single miracle to overthrow science.

How about listing a few scientifically observed and verified miracles that overthrew science ?

 

[SeventyOne]

How about listing a few scientifically observed and verified miracles that overthrew science ?

'Scientifically observed'? What does that even mean in this context?

 

[Alexandre Fedorovski]

Science says we will all die, yet a man rose from the dead. Science says that water lacks the carbon to become wine yet water was turned into wine.....

It only takes a single miracle to overthrow science.

 

[Macril]

'Scientifically observed'? What does that even mean in this context?

Meaning it is pretty silly to say that bible story changing water to wine is somehow an example of overthrowing science.

Commercial Christian airline keeping their planes up with faith instead of jet fuel would be overthrowing science.

 

[SeventyOne]

Meaning it is pretty silly to say that bible story changing water to wine is somehow an example of overthrowing science.

Commercial Christian airline keeping their planes up with faith instead of jet fuel would be overthrowing science.

So, it means to you something recent. Miracles have time limits on their viability?

 

[Alexandre Fedorovski]

Science says we will all die, yet a man rose from the dead. Science says that water lacks the carbon to become wine yet water was turned into wine.....

A.F.: WHERE is the PROOF that it REALLY happened???

IА it DID and God is omnipotent, and there are so many skeptics and atheists in the world, why not repeat this experience again ??? The fact that we fear death and believe the priests who promise us rebirth is not sufficient to confirm the existence of God. 50% of scientists, for example, generally believe that we DO NOT EXIST at all, that we are just an imitation program ... However, they can not yet prove it convincingly too...

 

[Macril]

So, it means to you something recent. Miracles have time limits on their viability?

Most of the gods mankind has worshiped have lost their viability. Why should their miracles be any different ?

There were plenty of miracles recorded in probably every religious text ever written. We are not taking those at face value are we ?

Let alone saying they prove that science is somehow overthrown.

Perhaps we are meant to see some deeper meaning.

 

[Monna]

I think that the sources of terrorism must be sought in political injustice, inequality.

And inequality (social injustice) is what the prophets were all about - both in the old Testament, and in Jesus life. Jesus' support to the social outcasts, the disadvantaged, the powerless, was at the heart of his mission, and was highly political in his context, because it was a threat to the powers that were - especially the privileged.

Of the nine billion people on the planet,

There aren't nine billion yet.

faith has ceased to be a necessary condition for a harmonious existence

Faith is a synonym for trust. Harmonious existence implies harmonious relationships. You cannot have harmonious relationships without trust. You cannot even have a legal contract without faith - a trust that your contractual partner accepts and respects the law underpinning the contract. One of the basic characteristics of true friendship is trust.

You cannot have science without faith - true science has come down to accepting a certain level of probability and that requires faith. Science wants to see the "same" experiments providing the same results every time, but there is always a chance that in another (possibly unknown) set of circumstances the answer might be different. Many experiments producing the same results increase the level of certainty, but honest scientists will accept that 100% certainty is not possible. Therefore there is always a level of "belief"/faith involved.

Faith, hope and love will remain, no matter what happens in science.

It is a fundamental error to equate faith with religion.

 

[Monna]

no god has survived the development of science.

science itself has become a god to many people. "Science (and technology based on it) will solve all our problems ... put your faith in science." The sentence quoting Dan Brown is self-contradictory.