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Will God save us from ourselves?

Discussion in 'Christian Advice' started by Porpoise, Oct 1, 2018.

  1. Porpoise

    Porpoise Member

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    I don’t know if God will save me from myself, and I don’t know if I can trust myself to not unconsciously turn away or resist genuine faith and repentance.

    The bible shows that some people fall away. This means some people are not saved from themselves and their own choice (conscious or not) to resist God’s will for them. I can pray for help but there are reasons God might not hear my prayer. I could be in a state of sin, causing God to hide his face from me. I could be not genuine in what I’m asking, not really willing to change, and not even consciously recognize this.

    I believe that if I had faith, I wouldn’t be anxious about this. Those with strong faith, within the bible and otherwise, have confidence that God will save them and don’t appear to struggle with intense fears like this. So I should be hopeful, because I know this fear I have isn’t real.

    But I’m still stuck in it because I can’t figure out how it works, how I can really be safe and not worry when it’s a fact that many people do go to hell, even some who are Christian. Stories from the bible like Ananias and Sapphira who dropped dead when it was revealed they had withheld money from the church make me feel like if I mess up, God might not save me. I feel like there is only a tiny difference between me and them, I could just as easily offend God.

    I believe that God is good, no matter what. All his ways are just and he is trustworthy. He doesn’t want anyone to perish but wants everyone to repent. He loves me and wants me to be saved, and his son, Jesus Christ, died to make that possible. But how do I know if I truly love God and have genuine faith? How do I know I’m not resistant to God’s will and the Holy Spirit? How do I know I’m not self-deceived, or that I won’t be at some point, thinking I’m saved when I’m really not? I have hope that I can be saved, but I worry that I might not be. How can I overcome this fear?
     
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  2. icxn

    icxn Bραδύγλωσσος αἰπόλος μαθητεύων κνίζειν συκάμινα

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    The Christian life is like walking on a rope with a balancing pole. On one end of the pole you have hope and on the other fear. When you see yourself slipping into despair you lean towards hope. When you see yourself falling into complacency and contempt for God's commandments you use fear to correct your course.
     
  3. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    It helps so much I think when we begin to realize how sinful we've been -- when we get it something is wrong we've done habitually for years and years, or most of our life.

    Some of the best moments in life are when we repent (about an old thing, finally).

    Because of His amazing grace, and how we are cleansed when we repent: 8 "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. "

    It's exactly when a person is feeling so guilty over their sins that we can then feel the most optimistic about them!

    Have you already thought about this (which comes to us perhaps at different points in life, depending on who we are) -- even when we merely turn away from a neighbor, even just from any prejudice of some kind (like clothing or body type, whatever), pushing away someone that is open to talk to us, that hurts that person, that not-love?

    Sin is abundant.

    The best moments for us, after the moment of faith, is a moment when we really get it how sinful we've been and confess, and are forgiven!


    The deceiver wants us to believe we're great, and don't have much sin.
    Guilt over real sins is our call to confess and repent and be cleansed by His Amazing Grace. When we truly confess, we are forgiven, and that guilt for that serious wrong is removed.
     
  4. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

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    Do you believe this is true?
    Have you said sorry for your sins and asked Jesus to be your Lord and Saviour?

    If you have why do you believe that Jesus lied when he said,' Those my Father has given me, I hold in my hand and No One can snatch then out of my hand.'

    May I suggest that you go and talk to your pastor.
     
  5. Porpoise

    Porpoise Member

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    It's okay if you believe in OSAS, but it's not what I believe, and many Christians don't. I don't believe Jesus lied. No one can snatch me out of his hand, but by my own free will, I could jump out of it.

    But if I did believe in OSAS, I don't think it would fix anything for me. Because then I could say "What if I wasn't genuine when I said I was sorry for my sins and asked Jesus to be my Lord and Savior?" We know from Matthew 7:21-23 that not everyone who professes to believe and asks Jesus to be their Lord and Savior will really be saved. We know from Scripture that some will fall away. So the same problem exists, but it's explained differently. With OSAS, the ones who fall away and don't get saved are said to have never been saved from the beginning, because if they had been, they would have stayed. They would be said to have intellectual belief but not saving faith. So the same problem would remain: how do I know I have saving faith? I can say the words, but how do I know I'm genuine enough?
     
  6. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

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    So you are stronger than Jesus.
    What sort of God would go through all that Jesus went through only to permit those he suffered for escapr from him, wasting all his pain.

    or to turn it around.

    Is Jesus so repugnant to you, are the tempoary delights of sin so wonderful that you prefer them to him.
     
  7. Porpoise

    Porpoise Member

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    I realize you're trying to help, and I appreciate that, but I think our differing interpretations of Scripture are creating a barrier. "So you are stronger than Jesus" - When you say this, I'm guessing where you're coming from is the doctrine of Irresistible Grace. But because I don't believe in that doctrine, to me it's not a matter of whether I'm stronger than Jesus (which of course I'm not), because what I believe is that we have to voluntarily cooperate with God's grace, and that we are allowed the free will to accept or reject it.

    As for your second one, no, I don't believe that. Consciously, I don't. But what if unconsciously, I would choose sin? What if my unconscious would betray my conscious will? I look at the situation again in Matthew 7:21-23. It sounds like these people consciously believed they were doing his will and thought they loved Jesus, but deep down they did not. They were surprised to hear this. They said "'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’" They were self-deceived. How do I know I'm not?
     
  8. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    Very gracious response to such questions! I hope I do as you just did generally -- to graciously respond with kindness, consideration, and love, as you just did! Praise the Lord. You've inspired me to continue to try to respond rightly. :)
     
  9. Invalidusername

    Invalidusername Well-Known Member

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    I don't know. I think I fell away and God didn't prevent it so just read the bible and pray regularly. Don't let any roots of bitterness spring up and don't blame God for anything. Don't let your heart wax cold.

    I was so afraid of falling away when I got saved but I did nothing about it and then a couple years later my heart waxed cold. At least I realize my error so maybe repentance is not beyond me.
     
  10. Porpoise

    Porpoise Member

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    It sounds like maybe he did save you. If you fell away but now you're back, he must have brought you back, right?
     
  11. Invalidusername

    Invalidusername Well-Known Member

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    I hope that's the case. However it's not that simple. My heart still feels hard and God feels distant. I wonder if my repentance is even genuine. However if God brought me back, it is a sign that it is very deliberate to fall away and not something we accidentally do. I never wanted to reject Christ but I quenched the Holy Spirit until one day I no longer heard His promptings and didn't even realize it. Bitterness and sin was what did it for me.
     
  12. Greg J.

    Greg J. Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It is God's job to keep you saved as long as you are willing to keep choosing Him and His ways. We have no defense against the darkness apart from what God grants us. "Backsliding" is a term that some people use to refer to following Jesus and His ways less and less. You would find yourself dismissive of one or more of God's commands in some way, like "they don't apply to me," "I'm saved so I can do whatever I want," or "God loves me and will make an exception." Even spiritually mature Christians are susceptible. We need to pray for each other. It's pretty difficult to start drifting away from God if one has the habit of prayer and obedience, though. We get a stream of input from the world, and in processing so many ideas, we can forget (or never know) how God views the issue. Ongoing Bible Study keeps pulling one back to the center of the path.
     
  13. JohnB445

    JohnB445 Well-Known Member

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    Did you know your were sinning, or did you not? Will the Holy Spirit give us no warning?
     
  14. Invalidusername

    Invalidusername Well-Known Member

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    The Holy Spirit will give us plenty of warnings however once you quench the Spirit the 1st time, it becomes much easier to quench Him for a 2nd time and then a 3rd time and so on... You think to yourself "I will repent later." but that is pure arrogance. We do not choose when we repent. This is why Hebrews warns against hardening our hearts because TODAY is the day of salvation.
     
  15. Porpoise

    Porpoise Member

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    Have you ever heard the term 'dark night of the soul'? It's a term that describes periods of time in a Christian's life in which God feels distant and they can't feel his love or presence. Most Christians go through these periods at various times in their lives, and it's not a bad thing but something that actually leads to growth. These times show us that our relationship with God is not a matter of feelings, we can serve him even when he feels far away and we don't have the good feelings we normally have.

    Growing through a Dark Night of the Soul - Soul Shepherding

    Maybe that's what you're experiencing? You sound like you love God and you've realized you were sinning and repented, but things just don't feel the same. Maybe this is normal and positive, even if it doesn't feel that way?
     
  16. Invalidusername

    Invalidusername Well-Known Member

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    I hope you're right. I just want some serious Godly remorse and true repentance.
     
  17. Invalidusername

    Invalidusername Well-Known Member

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    But take my advice brother, read the bible and pray daily so you don't have to experience what I am now. Don't let any bitterness or sin take control of you.
     
  18. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

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    Jesus said,' Those my Father has given to me.'
    We can debate freewill, predesination etc till the cows come home, but the reality that we are either slaves of satan or slaves of Jesus trashes those arguments.

    Just who are you a slave of?

    Do you believe that Christians never sin?
    Paul wrote the good that I want to do I don't do, while the evil I don't want to do I do.

    Please think sertiously about the point I'm trying to make.
    Is Jesus worth following or is a life of sin worth following?
    As a Christian which will you choose?
     
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