WikiLeaks editor on Apache combat video: No excuse for US killing civilians

soblessed53

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YouTube - WikiLeaks editor on Apache combat video: No excuse for US killing civilians

Wikileaks expose American war crimes 2004-2009 - spsyed analyses Afghan War Diary logs

YouTube - Wikileaks expose American war crimes 2004-2009 - spsyed analyses Afghan War Diary logs

Leaks Create Fresh Doubt About Afghan War

YouTube - Leaks Create Fresh Doubt About Afghan War


I'm sure you all have been hearing on the news how the US Government is going ballistic over Wikileaks! Until the American people demand that criminals like this are prosecuted,such atrocities will continue!

They can't tell the difference between a camera lens and a rocket launcher,and our so-called 'intelligence' and technology is a 'joke!
 
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ThankGodforGod

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I didn't see anything particularly damaging in what I had seen but a lot of stuff that fit the bill for "raw intelligence". One mentions bin Laden taking a trip to N.Korea with a 6 foot tall Pashtun and some Iranians to buy weapons. Anyone who has followed Afghanistan for longer than a few weeks knows how laughable a statement like that is.

I also didn't see anything about "war crimes". Killing civilians happens and I don't know of a single instance of someone being ordered to target civilians. The only people I know of who did this are currently either in prison or awaiting trial.
 
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Yusuf Evans

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They can't tell the difference between a camera lens and a rocket launcher,and our so-called 'intelligence' and technology is a 'joke!


Let's say it's late at night, and you're walking around with your NVGs on. You tell someone to halt, they turn around and u see a flash and something pointing at you. What do you do

A) Nothing

B) Shoot then ask questions later

Please provide your reasoning for either situation please.
 
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soblessed53

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Let's say it's late at night, and you're walking around with your NVGs on. You tell someone to halt, they turn around and u see a flash and something pointing at you. What do you do

A) Nothing

B) Shoot then ask questions later

Please provide your reasoning for either situation please.


Uh,as the video showed,it is BROAD DAYLIGHT!:doh: NO EXCUSES!! :mad::mad:
 
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Yusuf Evans

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Uh,as the video showed,it is BROAD DAYLIGHT!:doh:


You're dissing intelligence and technology, which NVGs are used to gather intelligence and is technology. So answer the questions. Should be easy to understand, since you claimed to have been a dependent spouse.
 
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soblessed53

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You're dissing intelligence and technology, which NVGs are used to gather intelligence and is technology. So answer the questions. Should be easy to understand, since you claimed to have been a dependent spouse.


REMAIN ON TOPIC, this happened in BROAD DAYLIGHT, not at night,and there is VIDEO. Stop De-Railing the threads that you don't like the proof in!
 
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mpok1519

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People deserve to know if civillians are being killed. And people should know what kind of highschool drop outs are behind the wheel of a four million dollar chopper gunner paid for with my tax dollars while mowing down innocents.

Question; is it legal for the military and govt to cover up operations even if they're illegally killing civillians in the name of national security.
 
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soblessed53

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People deserve to know if civillians are being killed. And people should know what kind of highschool drop outs are behind the wheel of a four million dollar chopper gunner paid for with my tax dollars while mowing down innocents.

Question; is it legal for the military and govt to cover up operations even if they're illegally killing civillians in the name of national security.

:thumbsup:AMEN, Or Dopers! I'm for exposing any and all cover-ups!
 
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soblessed53

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When the govt does illegal things are they really illegal? If they are illegal, are they treated as such?

Are you kidding? NOT since Nixon was allowed to get away with Watergate and ignore subpoeanas and Reagan as well! That's when Americans made their first serious mistake by not demanding Nixon's impeachment AND jail term!:doh: We ALLOWED the government to take control from the American people and put a president above the laws of the land. They are supposed to serve us,not the other way around!
 
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soblessed53

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I agree; but who is going to tell that to the people who have all the power and guns?

Now we have allowed them to get too much power but during Watergate every US citizen that wanted him impeached and prosecuted should have been in front of the White House demanding it until it was done! If enough would stick together a one-day work stoppage by everyone would be all it would take to return the power to the people.
 
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ACougar

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War sucks... it's to be avoided at almost al costs. When you engage in war you need to be serious about winning though. In Afghanistan we need to help a government develop that is strong and stable enough to stand against the Taliban and Al QUada... that is going to take many years and be very expenseive... not as expensive as another 9/11 and going back to Afghanistan, but still very expensive.

If you were against Afghanistan all along... I think your wrong but I can respect that. If your against Afghanistan because you think it's no longer worth it... too late. We need to finish what we started, not go running away because we think that will save us money and American lives. It will not, eventually we'll wind up paying with interest if we cut and run.

As for killing civilians, if you are armed in a war zone... you are a threat. If US soldiers are being shot at and you are a threat and not an ally you are in a very dangerous situation. Even standing around armed people at the wrong place and wrong time in a war zone can get you shot... don't do it. The only part of the video I have a problem with is the good Samaritan in the Van, he was unarmed, the victim on the ground was unarmed... it was not appropriate to shoot up the van because he stopped and tried to help someone who was bleeding on the side of the street.
 
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Billnew

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People deserve to know if civillians are being killed. And people should know what kind of highschool drop outs are behind the wheel of a four million dollar chopper gunner paid for with my tax dollars while mowing down innocents.

Question; is it legal for the military and govt to cover up operations even if they're illegally killing civillians in the name of national security.
People don't understand what war is. It isn't marching out to the clearing and shooting at each others arms and legs until one side says uncle. Neither side wears a white hat.
Armed combatants run and dodge between civilians to keep from being killed. They shoot at oour soldiers from occupied houses. They pull their men out and then take pictures of the dead family that lived there.
Dead civilians are great propaganda for our enemy.

Civilians can't handle the truth about war. People die. Civilians die. People with cameras die, because people with nervous trigger fingers see a Surface to air missle launcher.

Carrying a rifle does not warrant immediate execution by a foreign military.
Carrying a rifle in a hostile area can bring down a hail of gunfire.

This is exactly the reason we do not publish this information. People sitting in their easy chair, in no danger, never having to face a kill or be killed situation decide that a simple mistake is the worst of warcrimes.

You have mere seconds to decide if the person that just turned on you is holding a cell phone or a pistol. If that person is a reporter with a camera pointed at you, or a missle launcher about to destroy you.

If you want a war with no civilian casualties, then talk all sides into going out in some distant field to face each other, and stand their and shoot until one side is gone. It won't happen. The smaller forces will always hide behind the skirts of women and use children as shields. Their leaders will always use the killing of these people against the larger force. Simple people will fall for it every time. War is death. DOn't want to kill someone? Then don't go to war.
Every friendly fire incident, or fire into civilians, is investigated, and if improper it will be prosecuted. Most killings are accidents, you play with high explosives with nervous people, people will die, & not always the right ones.
Sorry to disappoint you. There is no innocent war. There is no army riding in on white horses, withdrawing from fire so that civilians won't be hurt. When someone shoots at you, you shoot back. Civilians will be killed. Its the nature of the beast.
Oour enemy knows this, they also know that our people are ignorant to the facts of war. Our people believe that our smart weapons can explode and hit only those that would do us harm.

The camera probably shows the whole incident, but I bet it only shows the worst of the US side. It doesn't show what led to the incident.
Stop being a pawn for the enemy. Think about our civilian casualties on 9-11. You can decry Iraq as not being linked to 9-11. But by all counts, Afganistan is linked. So when you cry over their dead, don't forget about our dead. They killed 3000 people that day. We had to go to war, or thousands more would have been killed in further attacks. We didn't want this war, but we won't back down from it either.

Get over it. People die in war. We try not to hit civilians, but alot of the time we don't have the luxury of being an arm chair quarterback and decide if the person whos life was in danger acted appropriately. Thats why the military investigates and prosecutes their own. They know what is normal, what is a mistake, and what is criminal.

I am still waiting for anything shocking to come out of this leak.

Our military kills civilians and hides that from the innocent minds of our people, who can't understand why a child is killed. Every war this has been done. Revolutionary war, Civil war, WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam,
and every conflict since then.
 
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ZephyrWiccan

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People with cameras die, because people with nervous trigger fingers see a Surface to air missle launcher.
There's no excuse there - even if they did mistake it as such an RPG, they were not in danger whatsoever.
Carrying a rifle in a hostile area can bring down a hail of gunfire.

This is exactly the reason we do not publish this information. People sitting in their easy chair, in no danger, never having to face a kill or be killed situation decide that a simple mistake is the worst of warcrimes.
I have been in exactly those situations, and have been over in that country serving. These soldiers acted unprofessionally, trigger happy, and should have gotten intel on the situation instead of opening fire.

Particularly with the van with the kids in it that stopped to help. There was NO reason to shoot it up like that, and they should have been taken to task by their superiors once this came out.
 
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