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Wiccan's in heaven???

Discussion in 'Christianity and World Religion' started by Tsaxgurl317, Jul 17, 2003.

  1. Skyspirit

    Skyspirit New Member

    21
    +0
    gehenna, if you want to know about wicca, ask wiccans, not christians. You dont ask a buddist what jesus was like do you?
    However you are correct, there are many thousands of pagans that dont practice magick (in terms of spells) just as there are many christans that dont go to church.
     
  2. Hunter

    Hunter Socratic gadfly

    18
    +1
    Christian
    Christ said no man reached the Father but through him. He didn't say no man reached the father but through accepting the dogmas of the various christian denominations. I have a hard time believing that a Deity which is nothing less than pure, unalloyed love would condemn to hell good individuals who have spent their lives promoting and perpetuating love in their lives but are not christian. If anything, their commitment to selfless service and love of fellow human beings makes them Christ's disciples by default. I refer back to the scripture which mentions that not everyone calling Christ "Lord" will see heaven, and many who never did will be in Paradise because they fed the hungry, clothed the naked, etc.

    Hunter
     
  3. Take up the Cross

    Take up the Cross New Member

    38
    +1
    It's not about 'accepting dogmas.' Mainstream Christianity will have you to believe that, but I do not believe this. The 'accepting Christ' movement is flawed, in my opinion.

    A mere intellectual assent for the Gospel facts is not what saves you. Pure true repentence, followed by belief in Jesus' work for you saves you. A dynamic faith in Christ that lasts your whole life in which you constantly rely on the grace of God should follow.

    God is love, but God also set His guidelines. It is clear from Scripture that grace through faith saves us, not works. Works as a fruit must be shown if the salvation is true, but these works are not saving works.

    If works saved us, Christ's work was in vain. Humans don't really need to Him for salvation, if this is true. You are right, not everyone who calls Christ 'Lord' will be in heaven, because they are fake Christians. They are of the 'accepting' and 'assenting' crowd, and not the repentent, whole-hearted believing crowd. Many will be deceived by Satan.

    No matter how much we work and do good things, we will all have sin that needs to be forgiven. This is why Jesus died, so we may be forgiven. On top of that, He empowers us to be truly good thereafter. How can someone, who may do good things, but does not give themselves to God in Christ be saved? Do not the Scriptures teach we need Him? Do they not teach no man is truly righteous, and that all have sinned? If all have sinned, do not all need Jesus, including the atheist, the buddhist, etc?

    "Christ said no man reached the Father but through him. " Indeed He did. What do you think this means? A doctrinal assent? A denominational membership? Surely not, it's faith in Him. Nothing less can save us.

    God is love. He loved the world enough to die for them. But His sacrifice for sins is only effective for those who completely give themselves to Him, admitting that they cannot do it themselves, but need Him. This is what a Christian is.

    Kyle
     
  4. LanceA

    LanceA Junior Member

    26
    +0
    Non-Denom
    Single
    US-Constitution
    Well lets ask oursleves this question. Would Wiccans want to go to a Christian Heaven? I would think not. Wiccans believe in reincarnation. They also believe in a place called the Summerlands where they live until they are ready to take on a new body. A Wiccans perception of Heaven would most likely be something to do with Nature, animals and all the Gods they believe in.

    It seems to me all of these topics end the same. You have Christians arguing with Christians, Christians arguing with Wiccans etc.... If you are a Christian and are trying to witness to someone who isn't Christian don't use the Bible. Most Pagan faiths don't accept the Bible the same way you do. You can quote scripture after scripture and never get anywhere with one. Show a hand of friendship and understanding to their Faith.

    We all have faith that we are right in what we believe. Christians can pray for salvation and Wiccans can do their spells and honor the sabbats and ancestors. We truly won't know until we are finally dead and meeting our maker.

    God never said to debate or argue with someone. If you truly want to save someone pray for them and be a friend. I have many pagan friends and I use to be one of them. I am now a Christian and will constantly pray for the salvation of my friends. I planted a seed and now will put my faith in God. I talk about religion all the time with them and even go to some of their meetings. We have great discussions.

    So now my answer to the first question on this thread is No I don't believe they go to Heaven.

    Lance
     
  5. ByGrace

    ByGrace Well-Known Member

    +33
    Christian
    I guarantee that wiccans will want to go to the "christian" Heaven but it will be too late. And while it is great to give to the poor and do good deeds God said that all of our righteousness is as filthy rags. That is why Jesus had to die for us. He doesnt force us to accept that and will honor the decisions of those that decide to seperate themselves from God and go to hell. No way of moralizing it to make it fit mankinds desire to embrace sin and still get the rewards.
     
  6. Dreama

    Dreama New Member

    4
    +0
    Ok here is a really quick lesson in "Wicca 101" - Firstly We do not beleive in the Devil, therefore we do not worship the devil. The devil is something that those who follow christianity beleive in.

    Wicca celebrates Spirit - Christians call what us Wiccans beleive in "God" - We also beleive that there are many gods and goddesses - much like chistians beleive in Angels. Same sort of thing.

    Wiccans have no intention of hurting anyone, regardless in what you think you saw in "The Craft" starring the teenage idol Neve Cambell. We beleive in Karma - What you give out comes back, multiple times. "Ever Mind the rule of three, what you give out comes back to thee"

    Wicca has been around for Thousands and Thousands of years, long before "Jesus walked the earth" -

    Now i dont know how many of you are familar with D.Michael Quinn but he states that :

    "In many of the miracles of Jesus, the techniques clossely parallelled magic practices of the ancient world. For example, Jesus used spittle to heal (John 9:6) and used Aramaic words in an otherwise Greek text of healing words ( Mark 5:41). Pagan magicians used spittle to heal the blind, put their fingers in the ears to heal the deaf, employed the same series of seperate acts involved in some of the more detailed Gospel healings, and used foriegn words as part of magic spells and incantations. (David Freidrich Strauss, "Thje Life of Jesus, Critically Examined," 2 vols, 2:299, 305)

    Egyptologist Robert K Ritner has observed that Egyptian "saliva magic" was "given new justification by the miracles of Jesus." (Robert Ritner, "The Mechanics of Ancient Egyptian Magic Practice" 89, 91)

    Religious historian Stephen Benko observed that the accusation of magic against early Christians was not mere polemical distortion. Non-Christians saw no difference between Christian glossolalia (speaking in tongues) and the gibberish of lower-class magicians and exorcists....( Stephen Benko, _Pagan Rome and the Early Christians_ 118, 125, 132; also E R Dodds, _Pagn and Christian in an Age of Anxiety: Some Aspects of Religious Experience From Marcus Aurelius to Constantine 125-26)

    Christians used "objects, rites, words and formulas charged with divine potency to force demons to yield," all in accordance with well-known, contemporary rules of magic. Christians may have claimed this was not magic, but it certainly looked like magic. "


    There is no such thing as Black Magick - in fact there isnt even white magick - there is simply just magick. This magick is conjured by being one with The FIVE POINTS OF THE PENTAGRAM "Fire, Water, Air, Earth and Spirit".


    Christians have actually stolen our beliefs, particualry our Holidays. The christian Christmas, is the Wiccan Yule. The original date of christmas was actually changed to co-insite with Yule.


    Even our Goddesses apear in the Christian bible, ie.Saint Bridgit!

    Not all witches practice Magick, not all witches practice diviation. Being a witch is sooooooo much more than what Hollywood betrays it to be. Its about respect. Its about Love. And its about Energy.

    Wiccans dont judge other religions, and therefore you shouldnt judge our beleifs. To each their own -

    Blessed Be
     
  7. Dreama

    Dreama New Member

    4
    +0
    By the way, no Wiccans dont go to the christian Heaven - we go to the summerlands, where we will wait until we are ready to be reincarnated. And by the way "ByGrace" - You can not say that you gaurentee something that you dont know about.

    We have lived karma free lives, and by the way, i think the pyschics know where they are going -

    Do you also beleive that those children in third world countrys that dont know about God are not going to be aloud in heaven?


    This is a horrible debate/thread topic.

    Blessed Be
     
  8. Sarah :)

    Sarah :) New Member

    68
    +1
    Good people should be allowed into heaven, no matter what religion they belong to.
     
  9. Ryoko Ozaki

    Ryoko Ozaki Lunar Mystery

    418
    +10
    Buddhist
    Of course, since we don't believe in God we're not worried about going to heaven so....
     
  10. MorningStar334

    MorningStar334 Pagan And Proud

    71
    +3
    Pagan
    Are you possitive it was written by people who knew and saw him? Is there actual proof, or just the word of people who said they saw him? I'm not saying the bible is wrong... but um.. I'm so embarrassed... who wrote it?
     
  11. MorningStar334

    MorningStar334 Pagan And Proud

    71
    +3
    Pagan
    Hello! You are preaching to the wrong choir! Alot of us here are pagan and wiccan!
    We don't believe in heaven and hell! Oh and I guarantee some christians will want to go to the Summerlands, but it will be too late.
     
  12. Isaiah 53

    Isaiah 53 Catholic Apologist

    +221
    Catholic
    Married
    You don't have to believe in Satan to serve his purpose. You dont have to believe in Hell to be sent there eternally. I don't believe Satans #1 purpose is to commit evil acts upon humanity. I believe Satan's #1 purpose is to take as many people down with him as possible. Nothing pains God more then to see His children willfully deny the Salvation He provided, thus sending themselves into eternal separation from Him.

    Satan's greatest deception is convincing man he doesn't exist!!! No matter how good of a person you are; if you don't accept Christ as Savior and Lord, trusting in HIM ONLY for your salvation. You cannot enter into God's presence.

    You do have to accept the free gift of Salvation offered only through Jesus Christ in order to enter Heaven.


    PEACE IN CHRIST!!!!
     
  13. Havoc

    Havoc Celtic Witch

    +88
    Pagan
    You mean like turning people away from God by using judgemental and prejudiced speech? Apparently you don't have to believe in Satan to serve his purpose... but it helps


    You dont have to believe in Valhalla to be sent there eternally.
    You dont have to believe in Nirvana to be sent there eternally.
    You dont have to believe in T'ir Nan Og to be sent there eternally.
    You dont have to believe in Hades to be sent there eternally.
    You dont have to believe in Summerlands to be sent there eternally.
    You dont have to believe in Boston to be sent there eternally.

    Ain't meaningless religious rhetoric wonderful in its infinitly applicable uselessness?

    Interesting Belief
    I would say his greatest deception is in causing some Christians to believe that Bigotry and prejudice is God's Will, thereby making themselves the greatest impediment to God gathering people to himself. Using Christians to thwart God, now that's a coup!

    Yes we understand you believe that. Others believe differently.
     
  14. MissSlySuri

    MissSlySuri New Member

    3
    +0
    Pagan
    Odd essay there, James. Can't really say what I think of it, though. It's hard to to put into words. (Really..I challenged myself for a bit)

    Therefore, I will go on to the present part of this thread.

    Isaiah, please turn your thoughts for only a moment for me as a Wiccan. Only slightly. (Do not fret, I'm not trying to convert- It's not the way I am) Belief lies in the eye of the beholder just as beauty does. Perhaps the Christian God thinks those true to good and not your so called evil should always have a place at his side?

    Or perhaps he thinks those who do not know if him or those who think that it is still right to be where they are, yet are still doing good should fall to "Satan" ?
    From the Bible you can not find these things. Perhaps..perhaps not. But to be from the very breath of the Christian God is what I need. Otherwise I can not believe that one you cherish so much, for so much good- protecting the innocent and good at heart would sent even those who do not see his way even thought they are as he protects.
     
  15. midnight star

    midnight star Guest

    +0
    Did anyone see what dreams may come? I liked that you had the choice of what to do.

    Anyway, I think Wiccans will go...wherever wiccans go. And i think they will deal with it when the time comes. If "heaven" exists id be happy to be let in. If i go to to hell i'll deal with it at the time. Personally i think Wiccans that live good lives get rewarded as well as all other people who lead good lives.
     
  16. Smilin

    Smilin Spirit of the Wolf

    +242
    Atheist
    Married
    errr...you do know where you are...right?


    Thus say you


    speak for yourself. I have sought truth in all spiritual
    things my whole life. Some truths are hidden to
    those who can't open their minds to accept them.


    Who's word? King James?

    Pushovers? Noone insenuated such.

    goodbye then...and may peace and truth find you.
     
  17. Smilin

    Smilin Spirit of the Wolf

    +242
    Atheist
    Married
    :)
     
  18. Hydra009

    Hydra009 bel esprit

    +334
    Atheist
    Single
    US-Democrat
    What are the Summerlands?
     
  19. Smilin

    Smilin Spirit of the Wolf

    +242
    Atheist
    Married
    So is Santa Clause's

    By your faith, not others


    May the warm winds of heaven
    Blow softly upon your house
    May the Great Spirit
    Bless all who enter here
    May your moccasins
    Make happy tracks
    In many snows
    And may the rainbow
    Always touch your shoulder
     
  20. Hydra009

    Hydra009 bel esprit

    +334
    Atheist
    Single
    US-Democrat
    heh, I like the second blessing better. :)
     
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