Why would a Christian deny the body and blood?

[HTacianas]

Why would a professing Christian deny the body and blood of Christ in the Eucharist when the bible and the history of Christianity proves it to be true?

 

[Neogaia777]

Why would a professing Christian deny the body and blood of Christ in the Eucharist when the bible and the history of Christianity proves it to be true?

Some people do not because of what Paul said about taking it unworthily, or in an unworthy manner, and the warnings attached to that, etc, but I have alcoholic red grape wine and bread at home and "partake" sometimes...

I also use the alcoholic red grape wine from time to time or in moderation for the heart and circulatory health benefits sometimes also, have a family history full of problems with that, etc...

I'm still looking for a church...

Or am in the process of finding a new one right now...

I do plan on taking communion there when I do, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Chesterton]

Because they were taught wrong?

 

[HTacianas]

Some people do not because of what Paul said about taking it unworthily, or in an unworthy manner, and the warnings attached to that, etc, but I have alcoholic red grape wine and bread at home and "partake" sometimes...

I'm still looking for a church...

Or am in the process of finding a new one right now...

God Bless!

You are.

 

[Neogaia777]

I am curious as to what some think Paul meant about taking it unworthily or in an unworthy manner though...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

You are.

I am what...?

 

[Markie Boy]

I have struggled with this teaching. John 6:63 - It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

I have heard this taught that people understood him carnally when he was speaking of spiritual things.

I am less confident of the Church fathers than I used to be. Once one moves beyond the Apostolic fathers I loose a ton of confidence. If you look they debated infant baptism well into the second century.

Please take the below seriously, as it's a big struggle for me:

So we could talk points and theology - but to answer your question I think it lies in the fruit. I personally have seen many people receive the Eucharist their whole life, yet do not treat others well, and are not full of joy. But they don't miss the Eucharist. And they look down on those that don't go to Church/Mass.

Then I know people that have not received the Eucharist ever or in decades, yet they are kind, loving, caring and honest.

If group one is getting so much more grace in the Eucharist - why do they do so much worse than group two?

I think that is the cause of much questioning.

 

[Neogaia777]

I have struggled with this teaching. John 6:63 - It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

I have heard this taught that people understood him carnally when he was speaking of spiritual things.

I am less confident of the Church fathers than I used to be. Once one moves beyond the Apostolic fathers I loose a ton of confidence. If you look they debated infant baptism well into the second century.

Please take the below seriously, as it's a big struggle for me:

So we could talk points and theology - but to answer your question I think it lies in the fruit. I personally have seen many people receive the Eucharist their whole life, yet do not treat others well, and are not full of joy. But they don't miss the Eucharist. And they look down on those that don't go to Church/Mass.

Then I know people that have not received the Eucharist ever or in decades, yet they are kind, loving, caring and honest.

If group one is getting so much more grace in the Eucharist - why do they do so much worse than group two?

I think that is the cause of much questioning.

You have a valid point, would like to see what others say about it and how they will address it...?

God Bless!

 

[HTacianas]

I am what...?

Slowly but surely ceasing to be your own pope.

I remember one day about 25 years ago I bought a bottle of grape juice and some pita bread and did my best to participate in the Eucharist. I cried when it was over.

You don't have to go through that. I've found the answer to your question. The answer is found in the Orthodox Church.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Why would a professing Christian deny the body and blood of Christ in the Eucharist when the bible and the history of Christianity proves it to be true?

Because the Bible DOESN'T Teach Transubstantiation, and the "History of Christianity" only records how long the false teaching has existed. Jesus was obviously speaking symbolically, the "Body" that we're not discerning is our fellow Christians who ARE HIS BODY on earth in his physical absence.

 

[Neogaia777]

Slowly but surely ceasing to be your own pope.

I remember one day about 25 years ago I bought a bottle of grape juice and some pita bread and did my best to participate in the Eucharist. I cried when it was over.

You don't have to go through that. I've found the answer to your question. The answer is found in the Orthodox Church.

Don't know about a pope or being my own pope, but as for the rest, I'll take it under advisement, thanks...

I thoroughly enjoy my time alone with Jesus though, and when I partake as well (though)... No tears involved, etc... Just a feeling of great gratitude, etc... And other good feelings involved with it, etc... Gets me thinking and dwelling on Him and all He has done, and has done for me personally in those moments, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Michie]

I am curious as to what some think Paul meant about taking it unworthily or in an unworthy manner though...?

God Bless!

When one is in mortal sin.

 

[HTacianas]

Because the Bible DOESN'T Teach Transubstantiation, and the "History of Christianity" only records how long the false teaching has existed. Jesus was obviously speaking symbolically, the "Body" that we're not discerning is our fellow Christians who ARE HIS BODY on earth in his physical absence.

So when Paul warned those who would profane the Eucharist that they were condemning themselves he was exaggerating?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

So when Paul warned those who would profane the Eucharist that they were condemning themselves he was exaggerating?

Nope, he was telling the absolute truth. It's the Catholic INTERPRETATION of what Paul says that's in error.

 

[HTacianas]

When one is in mortal sin.

That is what it means today. But it is the "catch all" that prevents abuse. The crucifixion is not an indulgence. A man's salvation lies between the confessional and the altar:

1Jo 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

But then:

1Co 11:28 - But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

And again:

1Co 11:29 - For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

And then:

Gal 6:7 - Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Salvation lies between the confessional and the altar.

 

[Neogaia777]

When one is in mortal sin.

What is mortal sin...?

And is that in the Bible or Biblical...?

Or did or does man define/judge that, etc...?

And even if say one was, how can you, a mere human, summarily judge them that way, etc...? What if they are an overall better person in general than someone who may not be, but they say they truly love Jesus very much intensely, etc...?

What about there history etc...? And what about where they may be currently at in their walk, etc...?

I don't know what mortal sin is BTW as I do not find that specific word used in the Bible, etc...?

But I do know how man judges, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[HTacianas]

Nope, he was telling the absolute truth. It's the Catholic INTERPRETATION of what Paul says that's in error.

The Assyrian Church of the East, the Coptic Orthodox Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, and the rest disagree with you.

You assume that your modern tradition is true. But you condemn the original Christian Church.

You have an uphill battle with this.

 

[Michie]

What is mortal sin...?

And is that in the Bible or Biblical...?

Or did or does man define/judge that, etc...?

And even if say one was, how can you, a mere human, summarily judge them that way, etc...? What if they are an overall better person in general than someone who may not be, but they say they truly love Jesus very much intensely, etc...?

What about there history etc...? And what about where they may be currently at in their walk, etc...?

I don't know what mortal sin is BTW as I do not find that specific word used in the Bible, etc...?

But I do know how man judges, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

This may help you. This is from the Catholic pov btw.

What is the difference between mortal and venial sin? - Catholic Straight Answers

 

[Neogaia777]

That is what it means today. But it is the "catch all" that prevents abuse. The crucifixion is not an indulgence. A man's salvation lies between the confessional and the altar:

1Jo 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

But then:

1Co 11:28 - But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

And again:

1Co 11:29 - For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

And then:

Gal 6:7 - Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Salvation lies between the confessional and the altar.

"Salvation lies between the confessional and the altar"...?

Really now, do you guys even know what you are truly meaning or are talking about half of the time...?

I mean no insult, but you guys really need to "examine yourselves" to see if your religious terms, thoughts and ideas, or "theology of your denomination" is really even "Bible" sometimes really...?

Seem more interested in your religion or religious denomination and their concepts and ideas, some of which are only man's ideas, etc, than you are "actual Bible" much of the time...

As far as confession goes, God fully knows all of my sin/sins, and that is good enough for me, and I know He still loves me anyway and forgives me anyway... I confess them all the time, etc, pray ask for help with them, etc...

God Bless!

 

[thecolorsblend]

I personally have seen many people receive the Eucharist their whole life, yet do not treat others well, and are not full of joy. But they don't miss the Eucharist.

With all due respect, I think this is the biggest copout. A doctrine is either true or it isn't true. The personal behavior of those who profess belief in it shouldn't be a factor in accepting or rejecting a given doctrine as true.

This part of your post really comes off like an excuse.