Why we're going to liberate Iraq

EJO

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There is a very good article/speech at worldnetdaily.com: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31500


Here is the start of it, it is long and I cant get the whole thing on here, but check out the link. this is a VERY good article:



Since our purpose today is to try to shed some light on America's imminent invasion of Iraq, let's look at the situation together – honestly – and try to separate reality from fantasy and foolishness. The first and biggest reality we need to face is that, barring a truly dramatic and unexpected turn of events – such as Saddam Hussein dropping dead or going into exile and voluntarily relinquishing the reins of power in Iraq – there is going to be a massive military invasion. Count on it. As one of the most-read news sources in the world, WorldNetDaily has access to intelligence sources all over the globe. And our sources in the military, in the intelligence services, in government, in the Persian Gulf, in the Mideast and elsewhere virtually unanimously predict an invasion of Iraq very soon. And, as a matter of fact, that's pretty much what the Bush administration is saying or indicating as well. So, we can debate and argue all we want about the war today, but that's point No. 1: It's going to happen. Why is it going to happen? Let's talk about 9-11 for a minute. On that truly dreadful day, the U.S. was thrust into a new world. We suffered a national trauma of indescribable magnitude. We'd never seen anything like it before. Demonically inspired Islamic terrorists commandeered four American passenger jets and turned them into gigantic, fuel-laden missiles, flying three of them into giant buildings containing thousands of innocent Americans. Some 3,000 people perished in those attacks. As with Pearl Harbor a half-century before, America had been attacked on her own soil, and was thus catapulted into a war not of her own choosing.



Nine days later, President Bush addressed a nation in intense and profound grief: "Our war on terror begins with al-Qaida, but it does not end there. It will not end until every terrorist group of global reach has been found, stopped and defeated," he said. "Every nation in every region now has a decision to make: Either you are with us or you are with the terrorists. ... From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime." And he added, pointedly, "The only way to defeat terrorism as a threat to our way of life is to stop it, eliminate it and destroy it where it grows." One place where terror grows big-time is in Iraq.

 

Check out the rest here:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31500<!-- deck --><!-- end deck -->
 

datan

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um...that is NOT a good article. It's way too one-sided. I'd expect a good article to at least attempt to be objective, and try to sum up the positions of both sides fairly, and make a convincing argument for its side. It is trying blatantly to appeal to nationalistic feelings. Remember the last country in Europe who appealed to nationalistic feelings to justify what it did?

The fact that the US has changed its strategic national policy regarding terrorism is inconsquential to the legitimacy of the war.

The UN security council has served the US' interest for many years. Just because this time it refuses to roll over and play dog, the article questions the role of the UNSC and declares it irrelevant. The US was one of the original crafters of the UN charter. If it didn't want small countries like Angola and Cameroon to ever have to influence its national policy, it should never have allowed something like tha tin the Charter. I'm sorry but that's how it has been for the last 50 years. You have to play by the rules that you made and that you expect others to follow.

Finally they claim to be one of the most read news source on the net? Somehow I doubt so. I'd never heard of them before.
 
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Doctrine1st

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Yesterday at 10:02 PM EJO said this in Post #1

Nine days later, President Bush addressed a nation in intense and profound grief: "Our war on terror begins with al-Qaida, but it does not end there. .It will not end until every terrorist group of global reach has been found, stopped and defeated," he said. "Every nation in every region now has a decision to make: Either you are with us or you are with the terrorists. ... From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime." And he added, pointedly, "The only way to defeat terrorism as a threat to our way of life is to stop it, eliminate it and destroy it where it grows." One place where terror grows big-time is in Iraq.

&nbsp;

Check out the rest here:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31500<!-- deck --><!-- end deck -->

Welp, then here's America's grocery list of terrorist organizations that the Prez says:"It will not end until every terrorist group of global reach has been found, stopped and defeated."

Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG) The smallest and most radical of the Islamic separatist groups operating in the southern Philippines. Some ASG members developed ties to the mujahideen while fighting in Afghanistan but the group is largely profit-driven. Activities: Kidnappings, extortion, murder—in 2001–2002 the group held an American missionary couple and other hostages, several of whom were killed in a shoot-out with Philippine troops.

Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya (Islamic Group, IG) Egypt's largest militant group, IG's primary goal is to replace Egyptian government with an Islamic state. Activities: Armed attacks against Egyptian government officials and Coptic Christians. Launched the 1997 attack at Luxor that killed 58 foreign tourists. Attempted to assassinate Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak in 1995.

Al-Jihad/Islamic Egyptian Jihad Active since the late 1970s, al-Jihad was established to overthrow the Egyptian government and create an Islamic state. Vehemently anti-U.S. and anti-Israel. Activities: Armed attacks and car bombings aimed at U.S. and Egyptian facilities. Carried out the 1981 assassination of President Anwar Sadat. Merged with al-Qaeda in June 2001; its leader, Ayman al-Zawahiri, is Osama bin Laden's closest adviser.

Al-Qaeda Established in the late 1980s by Osama bin Laden, al-Qaeda's current stated goals are to drive Americans and American influence out of all Muslim nations, especially Saudi Arabia; destroy Israel; and topple pro-Western dictatorships around the Middle East. Al-Qaeda also aims to unite all Muslims and establish, by force, a global Islamic caliphate. Activities: Include the Aug. 1998 bombings of two U.S. embassies in Africa, the Oct. 2000 suicide attack on the U.S.S. Cole, the Sept. 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon.

Armed Islamic Group (GIA)/Salafi Group for Call and Combat (GSPC) Extremist group that aims to replace the secular Algerian regime with an Islamic state. Activities: Between 1992 and 1998 the group massacred an estimated 100,000 civilians; violence resumed again in 2001.

Basque Fatherland and Liberty (ETA) Spanish separatist group created in 1959 with the aim of establishing an independent Basque homeland. Activities: Bombings and assassinations of Spanish government officials.

Hamas Formed in late 1987 to establish an Islamic Palestinian state in place of Israel. Some elements work through mosques and social service institutions. Militant elements advocate and use violence. Activities: Many attacks, including suicide bombings, against Israeli civilian and military targets; major force in both intifadas.

Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM) Islamic militant group based in Pakistan that operates primarily in Kashmir. The group has been linked to Osama bin Laden and in 1998 called for attacks on the U.S. and Western interests. Activities: Attacks against Indian troops, Western tourists, and civilian targets in Kashmir. Hijacked Indian airliner in Dec. 1999 to bargain for release of a number of Indian-held prisoners, including Ahmad Omar Sheikh, who in July 2002 was sentenced to death for the abduction and murder of U.S. journalist Daniel Pearl.

Hezbollah Extremist Shi'ite group that aims for the creation of Iranian-style Islamic republic in Lebanon. Formed in 1982 after the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, the group is strongly anti-West and anti-Israel. Activities: Anti-Israeli and anti-U.S. attacks, including the suicide truck bombing of the U.S. Marine barracks and embassy in Beirut in 1983.

Jaish-e-Mohammed (JEM) Islamic extremist group formed in early 2000 by Masood Azhar, whose release from prison was a condition for the freeing of hostages from an Indian airliner hijacked in Dec. 1999. JEM's overriding objective is Pakistani control of Kashmir. Activities: Claimed responsibility for the Oct. 2001 suicide attack on the Kashmir legislative assembly building; implicated, along with Lashkar-e-Tayyiba, in the Dec. 2001 attack on the Indian parliament.

Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) Established in 1974 as a Marxist-Leninist insurgent group primarily composed of Turkish Kurds. Seeks an independent Kurdish state in southeast Turkey. Activities: Attacks on Turkish diplomatic and commercial facilities in dozens of West European cities in 1993 and 1995. Attacks on tourists and tourist sites.

Lashkar-e-Tayyiba (LT) One of the largest militant groups seeking Pakistani control of Kashmir. Activities: Responsible for numerous attacks on Indian military and civilian targets in Kashmir since 1993. Implicated in the Dec. 2001 attack on the Indian Parliament.

The Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) The most powerful Tamil group in Sri Lanka. Seeks to create an independent Tamil state. Began its armed conflict with the Sri Lankan government in 1983. Activities: Political assassinations of Sri Lankan president Ranasinghe Remadasa in 1993 and Indian prime minister Rajiv Gandhi in 1991. Massive truck bombings. NOTE: In Feb. 2002, the Sri Lankan government and the Tamil Tigers declared a cease-fire that thus far has held.

Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization (MEK/MKO) An Iranian Marxist-Islamic organization founded in the 1960s. MEK, both anti-Western and against Iran's clerical regime, is bankrolled by Saddam Hussein of Iraq. Activities: Murdered dozens of top-level Iranian officials since 1981. Aided Iraqi government in suppression of anti-Hussein Shia and Kurdish uprisings in 1991.

The Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ) Loosely affiliated factions committed to the creation of an Islamic Palestinian state and the destruction of Israel through holy war. Activities: Suicide bombing attacks against Israeli targets.

Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) Marxist-Leninist group founded in 1967 by a former PLO member. Activities: International terrorist attacks in the 1970s; since then, attacks against Israelis and moderate Arabs; assassination of right-wing Israeli cabinet minister Rehavam Ze'evi in Oct. 2001.

Real Irish Republican Army (RIRA) Launched early in 1998 in protest of Sinn Fein's Sept.1997 adoption of the principles of democracy and non-violence in the pursuit of an all-Irish state; opposed to the Dec. 1999 amendments to the Irish Constitution that retract the Republic's claim to the six northern counties. Composed primarily of members of the 32 County Sovereignty Movement and defectors from the IRA. Activities: Bombings, assassinations, and robberies targeting British military and police as well as Protestants in Northern Ireland. Considered responsible for the Aug.1998 car bombing in Omagh, Northern Ireland, and attacks on the British mainland, such as the 2001 bombing of MI6 headquarters in London.

Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) Best-trained and best-equipped guerrilla organization in Colombia. Established in 1964 as military wing of Colombian Communist Party, seeks to overthrow the government. Anti-U.S. since its inception. Activities: Armed attacks against Colombian political and military targets. Traffics in drugs.

Revolutionary People's Struggle (ELA) Extreme leftist group that developed out of the opposition to the military junta that ruled Greece from 1967 to 1974. Self-described revolutionary, anticapitalist, and anti-imperialist group that is strongly anti-U.S. and seeks the removal of U.S. military forces from Greece. Activities: Bombings against Greek government and economic targets as well as U.S. military and business facilities. Claimed joint responsibility (with terrorist group 1 May) for more than 20 bombings in 1991.

Sendero Luminoso (Shining Path, or SL) Formed by Maoist professor Abimael Guzman in the late 1960s. Seeks to replace Peruvian institutions with a communist peasant revolutionary regime. Activities: One the most ruthless terrorist groups in the West, SL has killed about 30,000 people since 1980. Although the Shining Path waned during the 1990s it has begun a regroup since 2000.

...and no where do I see any reference or inference to Iraq or Saddam Hussien.

If the argument is made that we're going to war because of the resolution breaches, then fine, or because we actually want to liberate the Iraqis, then fine, or even because he tried to "wack" my Daddy, then fine, but to equate him to terrorism because he has paid the families of suicide bombers in Palestine with Al-qaida and 9-11 is kind of nuts. If I'm wrong then all I ask is to be shown, but leave the 11 year old plagerized documents from college students and the tapes that contradict the arguments at home. I'm from Missouraa, show me.

The sad thing is this seemingly totally inaccurate information has been said so much that people probably think Bin Laden is Saddams second in command by now. Show me!
 
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Pete Harcoff

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Yesterday at 11:43 PM datan said this in Post #4

gee...if Bush decides to royally p--s off ALL those terrorist organizations in your list, I'm going to pack my bags and get out of America ASAP.

Feel free to come to Canada. It's a little chilly, but there's plenty of room. :D
 
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panterapat

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Saddam has tortured his people. He is responsible for the killing of 9% of the Iraqi population. He has people dipped in acid, shot in the head, hanged, red hot rods stuck up the anus, eyes of children gouged out in front of their parents, gassing of populations, poison testing on prisoners, tongues cut out, raping in front of the family, disembowelment, electric shocks to the groin area, etc. etc. etc. ad neasuea.

A recent segment of Larry King Live featured ex- Iraqis who told of this horrific treatment. They WANT the USA to LIBERATE the Iraqi people. There will be cheering in the streets when the Saddam gov't falls.

I am glad that President Bush has the moral courage to confront evil. Edmund Burke has told us, "All it takes for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing."

In Christ, Patrick
 
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Doctrine1st

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Agreed, so let's find away of ridding the Saddams of the world without adding to the 9% loss of Iraqi lives.

And after we do that, rather than proping up a Iraqi Government for our self interests, why don't mediate the change so it's good for them, you know, unlike the those hooligans we have supported in the past who turned around and, who did you put it:

"tortured his people. He is responsible for the killing of 9% of the Iraqi population. He has people dipped in acid, shot in the head, hanged, red hot rods stuck up the anus, eyes of children gouged out in front of their parents, gassing of populations, poison testing on prisoners, tongues cut out, raping in front of the family, disembowelment, electric shocks to the groin area, etc. etc. etc. ad neasuea."

I personally can't see that happening, you know why, way too much oil at stake.

In reason, D1st
 
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Yekcidmij

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Datan......are you that afraid??&nbsp; I wouldn't worry about Bush p--ing off all those terrorists organizations.&nbsp; If I were them I would be more worried about seeing my organization on that list while Bush is in office.&nbsp;

"These colors dont run"

&nbsp;

http://www.theflagpole.com/image_full_size_pages/these_colors.htm
 
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datan

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Today at 08:51 AM Yekcidmij said this in Post #8

Datan......are you that afraid??&nbsp; I wouldn't worry about Bush p--ing off all those terrorists organizations.&nbsp; If I were them I would be more worried about seeing my organization on that list while Bush is in office.&nbsp;

"These colors dont run"

&nbsp;

http://www.theflagpole.com/image_full_size_pages/these_colors.htm

Some people think that it's only a matter of time before the suicide bomber comes
to America. Just like Israel found out, your tanks and aircraft will be useless against the determined suicide bomber. Terrorism is the poor man's way of waging asymmetric
warfare.
 
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datan

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Today at 09:09 AM Jutsuka said this in Post #9

I would if I was an american be more worried about seeing my own organizations on that list while Bush is in office. The Patriot Act applies to US citizens aswell...

and some of the organizations on Bush's list have nothing to do with terrorism, but are
political in nature.
 
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Today at 08:51 AM Yekcidmij said this in Post #8

Datan......are you that afraid??&nbsp; I wouldn't worry about Bush p--ing off all those terrorists organizations.&nbsp; If I were them I would be more worried about seeing my organization on that list while Bush is in office.&nbsp;

"These colors dont run"


There is a difference between not running away from trouble and blatantly seeking it.
 
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Doctrine1st

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Today at 08:51 AM Yekcidmij said this in Post #8

Datan......are you that afraid??&nbsp; I wouldn't worry about Bush p--ing off all those terrorists organizations.&nbsp; If I were them I would be more worried about seeing my organization on that list while Bush is in office.&nbsp;

"These colors dont run"

&nbsp;

http://www.theflagpole.com/image_full_size_pages/these_colors.htm

You have to understand Yekcimiji,

the situation at hand, these things needed to be said in light of 9-11. He has absolutely no intention of doing away with the Irish Reublican Army or taking the Israel stance against Hasmas or Hezbollah for instance, in fact in Israel, he takes the opposite stance to solve the matter via peace. As a good politician, and this is a knock on all politicians not just&nbsp;Bush, they will never take on a battle they can't win, specially if re-election is around the corner. In fact, the worst thing that could happen for&nbsp;Bush in regards to re-election is to have&nbsp;Saddam and Bin Laden&nbsp;choke to death on a chicken bone, and then have the media with nothing&nbsp;else to cover except the sad afffairs of our economy. &nbsp;So trust me, they don't fear Bush, they have in the past been supported by and dealt directly with changing American administrations with one constant, they know they only do what's political expidate for them, as all countries&nbsp;do. Let's&nbsp;not glamorize the&nbsp;mission or the motivations of&nbsp;political leaders.

I can understand ridding&nbsp;terrorist&nbsp;organizations and keeping&nbsp;Saddam&nbsp;from WMD, not for&nbsp;our sake, because I don't see him as a&nbsp;threat to us, but the middle east overall. It seems&nbsp;over there, they&nbsp;have learned from America,&nbsp;Russia, and the&nbsp;cold&nbsp;war in&nbsp;how to keep the peace, you stock pile more and meaner weapons then your neighbor, look at Pakistan and India. Look at North Korea, Bush calls them evil and low and behold their firing up their nukes again. They paid attention to how we did it, out stock pile till the other backs down or self destructs.

Terrorists groups don't organize over night because they happen to find some ancient passage in the Koran that says "kill the infidels" or because they have nothing else to do, it's because they have issues, from Ireland, to Palestine, to al-qaida. Some may be valid and some just of the freakin wall, but 9 times out of 10 it has to do with our foreign policy which to some can't distingush from our culture, they are one in the same.

When it comes to these matters as cowboyish, and&nbsp;from the hip&nbsp;Bush speaks, there's&nbsp;a whole&nbsp;lot of agendas at hand and things are not as black and white as his supporters think they are. &nbsp;
 
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panterapat

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"The Patriot Act applies to US citizens aswell..."

You are right. I would feel better if the Patriot Act had a time limit. We must protect our liberties at home. Though I might trust the Bush admistration to properly use this new power- other administrations may not use it properly.

But at this point it may be necessary, but just until this terrorist problem is gotten under control.

In Christ, Patrick
 
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