Why we are not supposed to keep the Sabbath

[trophy33]

Not by all.

Nothing is ever accepted by 100% of individuals. It does not matter, what matters is the scholarly consensus. Thats what establishes authority. Or else there would be none.

 

[Leaf473]

Your reasoning.

Jesus did not correct them in regard to when they were keeping it.

They were also in the land of Israel at the time

WIth that in mind nothing has changed since then. They followed the rotation of the earth no matter where they were at.

Okay... Following the rotation of the Earth, does the Sabbath occur first in Berrien Springs or Silang?

 

[Leaf473]

The Common and unclean animals were seen in the vision of Peter's

Right, because he sees all kinds of animals

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 10:12 - New American Standard Bible

and on it were all kinds of four-footed animals and crawling creatures of the earth and birds of the sky.

www.biblegateway.com

He said he had never ate anything common or unclean.

Right, though there's a textual question about whether it's common OR unclean or common AND unclean

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 10:14 - New American Standard Bible

But Peter said, “By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean.”

www.biblegateway.com

But let's assume it's supposed to be OR and follow that out

Then God said, what God has cleansed call not common.

Right, what God has made clean (katharos) don't call common (koinos)

Not only are two different animals being seen in the unfolding.

Actually, I think it says all kinds of animals

So those that were clean

Those that were unclean

Those that had started out clean, but had been made common maybe through touching something unclean?

So three categories, it looks to me

But it is also worthy of a mention that God never addressed the animals that Peter seen which were unclean. He only mentions cleansing the unclean.

It looks to me like God is referring to all animals, since that's what was in the vision

πάντα τὰ τετράποδα (all four-footeds, so that would be tetrapods that were clean and those that were unclean)

καὶ ἑρπετὰ τῆς γῆς (things to crawl on the Earth, I think those are all unclean)

καὶ πετεινὰ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ (birds of the sky, some of which were clean and some of which were unclean)

I'm using clean and unclean above with reference to Leviticus 11

It looks to me like God is addressing the unclean animals that Peter sees as well as the clean ones. That is, God has cleansed them (katharos)

One should notice that in the seeing of all manner of four footed beasts and what not; not one animal was seen that Peter could eat.

Well actually, some of the tetrapods would have been clean (katharos), unless something has happened to them to make them common (koinos)

With that in mind, what made the clean animals not fit to eat in Peter's eyes?

Possibly because he saw them in close proximity to the unclean animals? They were all in the same sheet? Peter was steeped in the traditions of the Pharisees, those things don't go away overnight. For example, Paul shaves his head to keep a vow

Therein is the answer to your questions.

Well, since it looks like we don't agree about the details of Acts 10, I invite you to explain more

I'm especially interested in your take on Romans 14:20 about all things being clean.

But maybe you've answered that recently, and I just haven't gotten to that post yet

 

[Jerry N.]

Jesus expects His followers to be keeping the Sabbath, not a sabbath at the time of the end right before His coming in the clouds to gather the saints in Matt 24.

Hebrews 4 states that we who have enter into the rest that is the Gospel also cease from our own works as God did from His.
The word "as" denotes a direct comparison..

So how and when did God cease from His own works?

The new Covenant is the Law in our hearts. We are a new creature. Now through Christ we do because of who we are in Him not because we have to, but because we want to through His Spirit.
We keep the commandments of God because of the faith of Jesus Christ. We are dead but live. But not us but Christ lives in us. And the life we now live, we live through the faith OF Jesus Christ. For he that has been baptized into Christ , has put on Christ. And it is He that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure.

So what if we are not keeping the commandments? Is the Law in our hearts? Are we a new creature in Christ Jesus?

Matt 24 and Hebrews 4 were originally addressed to Jews not Gentiles. In Matt 24, Jesus was addressing his disciples who were Jews. The letter is called Hebrews, because it is addressed to Hebrews. We now universally accept both into the Scriptures for Gentiles. I was asking where Gentiles were particularly told by any of the writers of the New Testament to keep the Sabbath. I particularly find it interesting that Jesus addresses churches in Revelation that contained both Greeks and Jews and does complain or complement them about their keeping the Sabbath.

 

[HIM]

Nothing is ever accepted by 100% of individuals. It does not matter, what matters is the scholarly consensus. Thats what establishes authority. Or else there would be none.

And the majority is always right?

 

[Leaf473]

Did you miss the word assume?

Assuming is good?

Rather subjective reasoning when one assumes.

Well, you reference some scriptures here

But Not in respect to the commandments of God.

As was said, nowhere in scripture is it a law that we only eat vegies.

Nor is it a founded in scripture that we are not to eat common animals.

Then you conclude with

So with that, one would have to assume that the day mentioned is a holy day or the Sabbath

Now, if we "have to assume" based on what you presented, then it sounds like you are saying that we have no choice but "...to assume that the day mentioned is a holy day or the Sabbath", with which I would agree

 

[FreeinChrist]

ADVISOR HAT


This thread had a small clean up.

Let's try to respect each other and not get snarky, ok?​

 

[guevaraj]

They followed the rotation of the earth no matter where they were at.

Okay... Following the rotation of the Earth, does the Sabbath occur first in Berrien Springs or Silang?

Brothers, according to the observance of the Sabbath by Jewish communities that have spread throughout the world, the correct date line that accommodates all Jewish communities is not on the International Date Line but slightly further to the right on the exact opposite side of the globe from Jerusalem, the last of the listed possibilities followed by several prominent communities.



United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

Brothers, according to the observance of the Sabbath by Jewish communities that have spread throughout the world, the correct date line that accommodates all Jewish communities is not on the International Date Line but slightly further to the right on the exact opposite side of the globe from Jerusalem, the last of the listed possibilities followed by several prominent communities.



United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

That's interesting hearing the Jewish opinion

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 13:52 - New American Standard Bible

And Jesus said to them, “Therefore every scribe who has become a disciple of the kingdom of heaven is like a head of a household, who brings out of his treasure new things and old.”

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Bob S]

Right, west of the date line. Originally Sabbath began somewhere near Mt Sinai and the Red Sea. Now those in Australia and New Zealand, who believe we have to observe the old covenant mandate, begin the weekly cycle.

 

[Bob S]

Our SDA friends believe all Heaven is Sabbath observant along with them. It takes 48 hours from the beginning of the cycle to the end. Does that mean all the Heavenly beings observe it for 48 hours? Seems like some sort of a conundrum now doesn't it.

 

[trophy33]

And the majority is always right?

If you have a specific problem with the scholarly text used in the biblical scholarship today, address the NA committee, not me. Its off topic, here.

 

[HIM]

If you have a specific problem with the scholarly text used in the biblical scholarship today, address the NA committee, not me. Its off topic, here.

Then don't bring it up. Especially since you don't have any rational answer for that which was put forward to you.


Because the fact that scholarly consensus (the majority) crucified Jesus and killed a lot of Christians since is quite telling.

As is the fact that to believe what you are putting forward is to believe that God had His word put forward incomplete and not entirely true until said manuscripts were found.

 

[trophy33]

Then don't bring it up. Especially since you don't have any rational answer for that which was put forward to you.


Because the fact that scholarly consensus (the majority) crucified Jesus and killed a lot of Christians since is quite telling.

As is the fact that to believe what you are putting forward is to believe that God had His word put forward incomplete and not entirely true until said manuscripts were found.

Nestlé Aland is the standard text for Bible translations today. I brought it up because @SabbathBlessings quoted a non-standard one, basing her argument on a reading that is not in the standard text.

Defending the standard text is off-topic here, so focus on the Sabbath issue. Thanks.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.

Original Word: Ἕλλην
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: Hellén
Pronunciation: hel'-lane
Phonetic Spelling: (hel'-lane)
Definition: Greek
Meaning: a Hellene, the native word for a Greek; it is, however, a term wide enough to include all Greek-speaking (i.e. educated) non-Jews.

The original manuscripts and context trumps all human interpretations

 

[trophy33]

Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.

Original Word: Ἕλλην
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: Hellén
Pronunciation: hel'-lane
Phonetic Spelling: (hel'-lane)
Definition: Greek
Meaning: a Hellene, the native word for a Greek; it is, however, a term wide enough to include all Greek-speaking (i.e. educated) non-Jews.

1. Attending synagogues or reasoning/persuading about Jesus is not how the Sabbath was supposed to be kept. Biblically, the Sabbath keeping was a physical rest from work. So I am not following what you are even trying to prove with these verses.

2. Greeks attending synagogues were proselytes to Judaism. The law teachers and Pharisees were converting Gentiles to Judaism:
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.
Mt 23:15

 

[HIM]

Matt 24 and Hebrews 4 were originally addressed to Jews not Gentiles.

The entirety of Jesus' teaching in the Gospels were mainly just spoken to Israel. So according to your theology none of it applies to you or anyone else that is not Israelian.

What does "teaching them to observe all, whatever I did command you" mean then according to what you are purporting?

Matt 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.



In Matthew 24's address the culmination is Jesus coming in the clouds to gather the elect. In sharing this He also shares an exhortation to pray that our flight not be in the winter or the Sabbath prior to this.

This exhortation to pray 24:20 is timeless.

In Matt 24, Jesus was addressing his disciples who were Jews. The letter is called Hebrews, because it is addressed to Hebrews. We now universally accept both into the Scriptures for Gentiles. I was asking where Gentiles were particularly told by any of the writers of the New Testament to keep the Sabbath.

Yes they were in Hebrews 4.


True or false.

There is neither Jew or gentile?

There is only One tree?

He is the vine we are the branches?

One Body?

We are the Building?

 

[HIM]

1. Attending synagogues or reasoning/persuading about Jesus is not how the Sabbath was supposed to be kept. Biblically, the Sabbath keeping was a physical rest from work. So I am not following what you are even trying to prove with these verses.

As followers of and through Jesus, it was His custom, as it was for those who were His contemporaries. So we do or we are not.

To say what you say is to say Jesus did wrong, sinned. And what is worse you imply Jesus sinned by causing others to sin by following His example. A timeless sin.

2. Greeks attending synagogues were proselytes to Judaism:
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.
Mt 23:15

Baseless reasoning. It is as to say all Paul spoke to were not even proselytes but pagans.

 

[HIM]

Nestlé Aland is the standard text for Bible translations today.

Not all. Some use both or one or the other.

Defending the standard text is off-topic here, so focus on the Sabbath issue. Thanks.

You are putting it to the forefront by using it as a defense in respect to the text she gave.

If you don't want to talk about Then don't use it as a defense.

Especially since you don't have any rational answer for that which was put forward to you other than the scholars of today say.


Because the fact that scholarly consensus (the majority) crucified Jesus and killed and are killing a lot of Christians since is quite telling.

As is the fact that to believe what you are putting forward is to believe that God had His word put forward incomplete and not entirely true until said manuscripts were found.

 

[Jerry N.]

The entirety of Jesus' teaching in the Gospels were mainly just spoken to Israel. So according to your theology none of it applies to you or anyone else that is not Israelian.

What does "teaching them to observe all, whatever I did command you" mean then according to what you are purporting?

Matt 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.



In Matthew 24's address the culmination is Jesus coming in the clouds to gather the elect. In sharing this He also shares an exhortation to pray that our flight not be in the winter or the Sabbath prior to this.

This exhortation to pray 24:20 is timeless.




Yes they were in Hebrews 4.


True or false.

There is neither Jew or gentile?

There is only One tree?

He is the vine we are the branches?

One Body?

We are the Building?

You are missing the point. I wrote, “We now universally accept both into the Scriptures for Gentiles.” So we now take both Hebrews and Matthew as our own, but one cannot find a place in the New Testament where Gentiles were told to keep the Sabbath at the time the texts were written. I’m just trying to get you to see that there are brothers and sisters in Christ that don’t see the Sabbath as you do. I have known some great Christians, but I’ve never met one that doesn’t sin from time to time, so we should not throw the first stone concerning the Sabbath. Particularly since there have been many good Christians who never knew anything but Sunday as their Sabbath. Some were wrong about many things and even prayed to Mary, but they believed Christ died for their sins and rose from the dead and trusted in Christ more that any church. Errors in doctrine do not always negate salvation by faith.

I seem to remember that SDA people believe that those who don’t keep the Sabbath will receive the mark of the beast. Maybe I remember wrong. I’m sure that it will be partially true, but anybody who puts God above the government will be an enemy of the beast. The Sabbath will be only one of many factors.