Why was there no religious worship in Eden?

[Jamdoc]

Like when those islanders inthe Pacific in WWII saw military planes flying overhead, so they build replicas out of bamboo and worshipped them, thinking the planes were gods.

Correct, or a lot of people who have built religions around false gods all throughout history. They were not all given the true revelation of the true God that was entrusted to the descendants of Israel until Jesus.

Romans 3

1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

Most people in the world can know that they are created beings, that a God exists (as Roman 1 points out), but they do not know Him, and so they attempt to seek Him and appease Him, knowing that He can affect (and afflict) their lives, thus religion is born. Sometimes, they see something that don't understand, and think, that must be God, so they worship, and make religion around it.
Of course, Demons know this, and take advantage of this behavior, and reveal themselves, and become "gods"

and as I pointed out, in Exodus 32, when Moses left them alone, the children of Israel became restless and sought out religion.

 

[timothyu]

Show me a religion that doesn't require a middleman and I'll show you Eden alone.

 

[Jamdoc]

So you agree that religion is about having a relationship with God, but reject that being in a perfect relationship with God is a perfectly religious state of being.

That's incoherent.

No I don't agree with that first part.
Religion is man's attempts to relate with God.
when the relationship with God is in its fullness, it won't be religion, it will just be relationship.

 

[timothyu]

Correct, or a lot of people who have built religions around false gods all throughout history.

Yet they all in true human form used rituals and tradition including Christianity whether you are dancing around a cross or a bamboo plane. Same system and all seeking something for themselves. Thing is the God of Abraham said knock off the wanting for yourselves and get out there and care for each other.

 

[chilehed]

No I don't agree with that first part.
Religion is man's attempts to relate with God.
when the relationship with God is in its fullness, it won't be religion, it will just be relationship.

You're certainly entitled to think that, but the Apostle James wrote "Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their affliction and to keep oneself unstained by the world." In their preternatural state, Adam and Eve's lived that out that religious state to perfection.

What you're saying reminds me of that nonsense about how "it's only human to sin".

 

[Jamdoc]

Show me a religion that doesn't require a middleman and I'll show you Eden alone.

Kinda my point and we agree there just don't seem to agree on the ruling and reigning part lol

 

[ViaCrucis]

I guess it depends on what is meant by religion, which to me religion means post fall attempts to relate to God, as I posted earlier a bunch of "maybe if I do this God will be pleased with me" acts.

That is largely a modern idiosyncratic view of the word "religion". In Christianity religion has always meant our relationship to God in Christ. Jesus is our religion.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Soyeong]

God made Adam and Eve and charged them with taking care of His garden, and to be fruitful and multiply and have dominion, and gave them no negative commandments aside from not eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

There was no commandment to sing, or worship, perform any rituals or sacraments, mark their bodies in any way, observe any specific days, only one forbidden food, but also no special holy foods.

Religion itself, was seemingly, not created by God originally, but perhaps, like God acquiesced to Israel's desire for a King, religion was something that men created as a means to relate to God, so God gave the Israelites a religion. He gave ceremonies, feast days, rituals, sacraments, etc, but only after thousands of years, and basically to replace false religions practiced by the world with something that could be true, and using these religious activities to illustrate, both past events and prophetic events that would happen.

It's something that Jesus said that jumped at me, regarding the Sabbath.
Mark 2

It's not that God wants a special day for special religious purposes.
The Sabbath was simply to guarantee men that they would not work all the time but have sanctioned rest for their needs.
It was given religious purpose to enshrine that rest, to make sure that people got rest, and something else jumped at me

In Exodus 32, while Moses was on the mountain, the Israelites got restless and demanded Aaron make them a god for religious worship. Religion and religious worship, ceremonies, and rituals and sacraments, had become a need, and if the people were not given a religion by God to practice, they would create their own false religion, in an attempt to relate to God.

So the law, and all the religion attached to it.. was not made because it's what God desires of man necessarily, or Adam and Eve would have been given religion to practice in Eden, but rather the ceremonial law and sacraments and sacrifices and feast days, the religion, was given to Man for their desire to have a religion, and I believe that is because of the fall, that since Man's relationship to God was estranged, Man sought ways to relate to God.

But in the restoration, the relationship is reestablished, and God lives with us.
There is no temple.
Does that also mean there is no religion?

The more popular view I recognize, is that it becomes 24/7 religion.

Good commanded Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiplies and they walked with God, so there was religious worship in the Garden. Enock, Noah, Abraham, and Moses all also walked with God, so walking with God wasn't something that was invented with the Israelites. If God had just wanted people to not work all of the time, then He could have done that, but He rested on the 7th day, blessed it, made it holy, commanded His people to keep it holy, and what is holy to God should not be profaned by man. God's righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:142), so therefore all of God's righteous laws are also eternal (Psalms 119:160), so the way to do what is righteous has always existed, not something that was invented for the Israelites. The religion that God instituted is His instructions for how to have a relationship with Him, so it is impossible to have a relationship with with Him without acting in accordance with those instructions.

 

[fhansen]

God made Adam and Eve and charged them with taking care of His garden, and to be fruitful and multiply and have dominion, and gave them no negative commandments aside from not eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

There was no commandment to sing, or worship, perform any rituals or sacraments, mark their bodies in any way, observe any specific days, only one forbidden food, but also no special holy foods.

Religion itself, was seemingly, not created by God originally, but perhaps, like God acquiesced to Israel's desire for a King, religion was something that men created as a means to relate to God, so God gave the Israelites a religion. He gave ceremonies, feast days, rituals, sacraments, etc, but only after thousands of years, and basically to replace false religions practiced by the world with something that could be true, and using these religious activities to illustrate, both past events and prophetic events that would happen.

It's something that Jesus said that jumped at me, regarding the Sabbath.
Mark 2

It's not that God wants a special day for special religious purposes.
The Sabbath was simply to guarantee men that they would not work all the time but have sanctioned rest for their needs.
It was given religious purpose to enshrine that rest, to make sure that people got rest, and something else jumped at me

In Exodus 32, while Moses was on the mountain, the Israelites got restless and demanded Aaron make them a god for religious worship. Religion and religious worship, ceremonies, and rituals and sacraments, had become a need, and if the people were not given a religion by God to practice, they would create their own false religion, in an attempt to relate to God.

So the law, and all the religion attached to it.. was not made because it's what God desires of man necessarily, or Adam and Eve would have been given religion to practice in Eden, but rather the ceremonial law and sacraments and sacrifices and feast days, the religion, was given to Man for their desire to have a religion, and I believe that is because of the fall, that since Man's relationship to God was estranged, Man sought ways to relate to God.

But in the restoration, the relationship is reestablished, and God lives with us.
There is no temple.
Does that also mean there is no religion?

The more popular view I recognize, is that it becomes 24/7 religion.

To know and love God is man’s very purpose, that which he was made for. Consider that, to the degree that we truly know and love God, we’ll worship and glorify Him, in Spirit and truth, on our own as a fountain that can’t help but spew out joyful expressions of that love. In fact, all commandments would be obeyed in that way, originating in the will driven by a love which could not help but obey, as it’s truly found the good that we all desire, in the God whom created us and is the source of all goodness itself.

 

[YahuahSaves]

Literally nothing, and that is why every fiber of my being aches for the loss of Eden.
2 lovers married in fellowship with their creator, in Paradise that God created and declared good, all their needs provided for, given dominion of the Earth, no religion, and given only the most simple of commands, and we still blew it, and had to replace it with religion.

This is why Jesus reconciled us to God through the cross. Our relationship is restored when we believe and turn away from sin.

I don't, and that's the point.
I think all that goes away.
to some degree, it already has.
the dietary laws are gone, all food is considered clean now 1 Timothy 4:5, the last vestige of religion in that example is prayer, because God is still invisible to us, so we pray to Him because we can't just... talk to Him.

Yes we can.

Prayer:
An act of communion with God, such as in devotion, confession, praise, or thanksgiving.

There are no special rituals to prayer. Just talk to him like he is there in front of you.
He's always listening, but the question is, are we?

No I don't agree with that first part.
Religion is man's attempts to relate with God.
when the relationship with God is in its fullness, it won't be religion, it will just be relationship.

You speak as though it's some far off future event.
We have the relationship in its fullness when we have the Holy Spirit indwelling us.

You should listen to some of the bible projects podcasts in their app. The original Hebrew for the Holy Spirit is "Ruach", which also meant "wind". It's the same word used for God "walking in the garden" with Adam and Eve.

 

[Jamdoc]

This is why Jesus reconciled us to God through the cross. Our relationship is restored when we believe and turn away from sin.


Yes we can.

Prayer:
An act of communion with God, such as in devotion, confession, praise, or thanksgiving.

There are no special rituals to prayer. Just talk to him like he is there in front of you.
He's always listening, but the question is, are we?


You speak as though it's some far off future event.
We have the relationship in its fullness when we have the Holy Spirit indwelling us.

You should listen to some of the bible projects podcasts in their app. The original Hebrew for the Holy Spirit is "Ruach", which also meant "wind". It's the same word used for God "walking in the garden" with Adam and Eve.

It's certainly not in its fullness we're waiting for the redemption of our bodies
we're waiting to actually see His face
we're waiting for the time when we don't need to perform a religious act (such as prayer, the eucharist, etc) to relate to Him. All those religious acts we do, still show how distant we are from Him yet. When you have a weak signal, you need to raise an antenna to make that connection.. but when the broadcaster is in the room with you, you don't even need a radio anymore.

1 Corinthians 13

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Paul wrote this, Paul indwelt by the Holy Spirit, deciphering mysteries hidden in the old testament scripture, Paul who could miraculously heal, drive out demons, and raised a man from the dead, that empowered by the Holy Spirit.... and Paul said.. he knew only in part, that the fullness was yet to come.

 

[bling]

God made Adam and Eve and charged them with taking care of His garden, and to be fruitful and multiply and have dominion, and gave them no negative commandments aside from not eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

There was no commandment to sing, or worship, perform any rituals or sacraments, mark their bodies in any way, observe any specific days, only one forbidden food, but also no special holy foods.

Religion itself, was seemingly, not created by God originally, but perhaps, like God acquiesced to Israel's desire for a King, religion was something that men created as a means to relate to God, so God gave the Israelites a religion. He gave ceremonies, feast days, rituals, sacraments, etc, but only after thousands of years, and basically to replace false religions practiced by the world with something that could be true, and using these religious activities to illustrate, both past events and prophetic events that would happen.

It's something that Jesus said that jumped at me, regarding the Sabbath.
Mark 2

It's not that God wants a special day for special religious purposes.
The Sabbath was simply to guarantee men that they would not work all the time but have sanctioned rest for their needs.
It was given religious purpose to enshrine that rest, to make sure that people got rest, and something else jumped at me

In Exodus 32, while Moses was on the mountain, the Israelites got restless and demanded Aaron make them a god for religious worship. Religion and religious worship, ceremonies, and rituals and sacraments, had become a need, and if the people were not given a religion by God to practice, they would create their own false religion, in an attempt to relate to God.

So the law, and all the religion attached to it.. was not made because it's what God desires of man necessarily, or Adam and Eve would have been given religion to practice in Eden, but rather the ceremonial law and sacraments and sacrifices and feast days, the religion, was given to Man for their desire to have a religion, and I believe that is because of the fall, that since Man's relationship to God was estranged, Man sought ways to relate to God.

But in the restoration, the relationship is reestablished, and God lives with us.
There is no temple.
Does that also mean there is no religion?

The more popular view I recognize, is that it becomes 24/7 religion.

How are you defining "Worship"?
Offering up to God intentional obedience to His commands is what I see worship being, so when were they being obedient?

 

[Jamdoc]

How are you defining "Worship"?
Offering up to God intentional obedience to His commands is what I see worship being, so when were they being obedient?

you do well to put "worship" in quotation marks, because ultimately your definition of worship, is the correct one. Obeying God is worshiping Him, doing the thing that He created you to do is worshiping Him. In that sense, animals all worship God, because they do what He has intended them to do. God did not create man to be a choir. God created man to be His image bearers on Earth, to represent Him, and to take care of His creation and have dominion over it. So as long as Adam and Eve obeyed God in not eating from the tree He told them to not eat from, and they tended the garden, and they.. lived life, had children, they would be in perfect worship of God, without any religious acts.
"Worshiping" God is doing GESTURES of submission, verbal praise, performing ceremonies, rituals, sacraments, etc.... all while in a state of sin nature and disobedience. Even the act of prayer is a religious act that was not a part of how Adam and Eve worshiped God. Prayer is our attempts to communicate with a God that we cannot see.

 

[timothyu]

Well they didn't have tv's to reach the masses (as masses hadn't been invented yet) or a need for any human government.
But if you consider, when Jesus came he did not come to set up a religion but rather a way of life that reflected the will of God. Rather than ritual and obedience to religious governance of man, people were to merely love all as self and care for each other thus doing God's will..

 

[Diamond7]

God made Adam and Eve and charged them with taking care of His garden

Adam was to worship God as the Tabernacle of God. That is why the church is not a building, the Church is made up of the people of God. We are told that God breathed life into Adam and in the same way we are to receive the Holy Spirit of God to dwell in us. Jesus is the gate keeper or the door to determine what enters in or departs from the Tabernacle. The Oral law does go back to Adam through Abraham and Moses. People would be surprised how much of the Oral law is incorporated in our Bible and was not written at the time of Moses.

 

[Diamond7]

Well they didn't have tv's to reach the masses

They had parents to teach them. Abraham raised his children in the way of God. Isaac and Ishmael and all the rest of them. Even though Issac was the child of promise all of Abrahams children received a blessing. Genesis 16:10 "
Then the angel added, “I will greatly multiply your offspring (Ishmael) so that they will be too numerous to count.” Issac learned a real lesson when He was put on the altar and told that God would provide the sacrifice.
Genesis 22:7
"Then Isaac said to his father Abraham, “My father!” “Here I am, my son,” he replied. “The fire and the wood are here,” said Isaac, “but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?” 8 Abraham answered, “God Himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son.” And the two walked on together."

 

[Diamond7]

I think Adam and Eve had some sort of union with God that humanity lost in the fall, yes.

Adam had the breath of life. Genesis 2:7 "And LORD JEHOVAH God formed Adam of the dust from the soil, and breathed into his face the breath of life, and Adam was a living soul." We do not see this word נִשְׁמַ֣ת in Genesis chapter one. (neshamah: breath) Neshama (Hebrew: נשמה) is a Hebrew word which can mean "soul" or "spirit".