Why did Pastor Ratzlaff Get kicked out for not being able to substantiate the investigative Judgment Doctrine from a biblical prespective?
YeshuamySalvation said:Why did Pastor Ratzlaff Get kicked out for not being able to substantiate the investigative Judgment Doctrine from a biblical prespective?
Please excuse my ignorance but who is Pastor Ratliff and who kicked him out of where?YeshuamySalvation said:Why did Pastor Ratzlaff Get kicked out for not being able to substantiate the investigative Judgment Doctrine from a biblical prespective?
repentandbelieve said:Please excuse my ignorance but who is Pastor Ratliff and who kicked him out of where?
Thanks for filling me in.tall73 said:He is a former Adventist minister, from a fourth-generation Adventist background. He wrote a couple of books including "The cultic doctrine of Seventh-day Adventists."
I don't know the details of him being kicked out, but assumedly of his pastoral position. In any case, if he stopped believing the doctrine there is no reason for him to continue to be a minister of the denomination.
YeshuamySalvation said:Why did Pastor Ratzlaff Get kicked out for not being able to substantiate the investigative Judgment Doctrine from a biblical prespective?
Not only that, did you read Sabbath in the New Testament and Sabbath under Crossfire? Those are excellent books were Samuel Bacchiocchi mops the floor with most of these anti Sabbatrian preachers.. But my point is that though Dale is wrong in regards to Sabbath Keeping, he is right concerning the santuary doctrine having no biblical support.. I'm not going indepth on the santuary doctrine in this thread when we are already discussing it in another thread... But my question is why was he forced to resign for not teaching all 27 beliefs. When no one was able to prove him wrong. I think i'm going to have to message Dale because he says that he has proof that most Adventist Scholars reject the heavenly santuary doctrine and the investigative judgment... He even has a video i believe were he debates the issue with an Adventist Scholar and the Adventist Scholar admits that the santuary doctrine and the investigative judgment can only be supported by Ellen White writings and not the bible..oldsage said:I read the online debate to Ratzlaf and Bacchiocchi way back when on the topic of the Sabbath, I think Sam mopped the floor with him.
of course that was back before I kept Sabbath, I debated with Sam also, and I don't think I held up to well against him.
Chris
yes, I have Sabbath Under Crossfire, an excellent book. But as far as why Dale was 'forced' do resign, I can't answer that, that must have something to do with internal politics being the fundamental doctrines of that church and Dale no longer agreeing with them.YeshuamySalvation said:Not only that, did you read Sabbath in the New Testament and Sabbath under Crossfire? Those are excellent books were Samuel Bacchiocchi mops the floor with most of these anti Sabbatrian preachers.. But my point is that though Dale is wrong in regards to Sabbath Keeping, he is right concerning the santuary doctrine having no biblical support.. I'm not going indepth on the santuary doctrine in this thread when we are already discussing it in another thread... But my question is why was he forced to resign for not teaching all 27 beliefs. When no one was able to prove him wrong. I think i'm going to have to message Dale because he says that he has proof that most Adventist Scholars reject the heavenly santuary doctrine and the investigative judgment... He even has a video i believe were he debates the issue with an Adventist Scholar and the Adventist Scholar admits that the santuary doctrine and the investigative judgment can only be supported by Ellen White writings and not the bible..
Dale also says that most of them don't reject it openly only privately because there afriad of losing there jobs.
jabechler said:Gods plan of salvation was outlined and recalled to his followers in the jewish temple services. The shedding of blood was for the forgiveness of sin . Yet God said He would prefer obedience rather than sacrafice. Christs death on the cross ended the sacraficial services forever, yet sin continues. The sanctuary message and the Investigative judgement are linked together and ties all Adventist believes together. If a Pastor or leader of a denomination no longer believes the fundamental truths they should be removed from before the people.
They way oh Lord is in the Sanctuary. All of adventist believes are linked together like a wheel. each pillar of our faith like the spokes and Christ is the hub of that wheel. The Sanctuary demostrates and reflects the plan of salvation and the nature and character of God. I think to say the sanctuary doctrine is the only thing that separates us from other 7 day christians is an understatement.Cliff2 said:The only real issue or doctrine that makes SDA's different to other Christian and in particular to 7th day keeping Christians is the Sanctuary doctrine.
Take that away and we are no different to any other Sabbath keeping Christian.
jabechler said:If a Pastor or leader of a denomination no longer believes the fundamental truths they should be removed from before the people.
Cliff2 said:Some minister of the SDA Church will come out and say that they do not support all the "28 Fundamental Beliefs".
Wonder what should happen to them.
It is a requirement for all "28 FB's" must be believed in for a person to become a member of the SDA Church?
The baptisimal vow now does not have all 28 on it.
Sophia7 said:What about those who previously accepted the 27 fundamentals, and now there are 28 (although I don't see why anyone would object to the last one, other than the fact that it doesn't really say anything)? What about those who were baptized before the early 1980s when the church adopted the 27? My baptismal vows were somewhat different from those that are written on baptismal certificates today (and as you mentioned, the baptismal vows today do not include all 28). I understand why the church thought it necessary to spell out the fundamental beliefs, but we shouldn't be so rigid as to prescribe a certain set of words to which everyone must adhere or risk being disfellowshiped. The early Adventists were opposed to forming a creed, and for all practical purposes, that is what we have done.
"Why was Pr Dale Ratzlaff forced to resign for not teaching the 27 Beliefs"