Why was it moral what God told Abraham to do?

[JD16]

God said in the Bible that human sacrifice (which is what the pagan nations did) is an abomination and wicked, and its one of the reasons that God used the Israelites to judge the pagan nations that lived in the holy land. However, God told Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac to him. Now, Christian apologists argue that God only told Abraham to do it to test his faith, and God stopped him because he didnt really want him to do it. However, why would God tempt people into doing sinful actions, just to test their faith, even if he was going to stop them? Saying "God was just testing Abraham and he didnt really want Abraham to sacrifice Isaac" could also be used to argue, "God asked Abraham to steal or lie or commit idolatry, just to test his faith". God wouldnt lead people into sin just to test him. So why did God tell Abraham to sacrifice Isaac? It seems kind of inconsistent in my opinion.

The real question is,...why would a God who is omniscient needs to test anyone? He knows everything, he knew before hand what Abraham would or wouldn't do.....the only reason why we conduct a test is to find out a result like in RL.

Ask yourself, who compiled the bible? what's the moral of the story here? What message is the author of the story trying to convey? Could it be blind obedience? Obey the authority of the church regardless of whether you like it or not?

 

[Rebecca12]

What about the fact that we all eventually die? When God first created humans, we were made to live forever. But when man fell into sin, death came. Would you say God allowing us to die is also immoral? He also gave us the means of living forever again, which I'd say is far beyond moral.

This is so hypothetical that it is difficult to answer. Living forever? I doubt our minds can wrap around the immensity of what that would be like. I don't think we have the mental capacity to handle forever on earth. And we couldn't have children to love because we would fill the earth with them. So many problems.

The second part, allowing us to live forever again has problems too. What if your children didn't make it to heaven, you have an eternity of loss or you have God wiping out your memory or you don't care. None of these work for me. And how can you envision a heaven that doesn't become tedious after a millennia? And if it is an eternity of peace, is that really you or some shadowy remains of you? I am not sure eternal life is moral unless humanity underwent a significant redesign.

 

[RDKirk]

I'm with Ana. If this was all a show, and Abraham knew that he was never actually going to kill his son, then why tie him up and terrify the life out of him by putting him up on the altar and hold a knife over him?

If that's what happened, rather than Abraham saying to Isaac, "Watch this...this is going to be so cool...."

 

[RDKirk]

The real question is,...why would a God who is omniscient needs to test anyone? He knows everything, he knew before hand what Abraham would or wouldn't do.....the only reason why we conduct a test is to find out a result like in RL.

Ask yourself, who compiled the bible? what's the moral of the story here? What message is the author of the story trying to convey? Could it be blind obedience? Obey the authority of the church regardless of whether you like it or not?

No, the lesson is that Abraham believed God would do what He said He would do: Create a nation explicitly from Isaac. The lesson is for Abraham's successors.

 

[JD16]

No, the lesson is that Abraham believed God would do what He said He would do: Create a nation explicitly from Isaac. The lesson is for Abraham's successors.

To create a nation out of Isaac, and Ishmael,....was the 'test' necessary?
What purpose does it serve? God knows exactly what Abraham would do, he knew that Abraham would obey without questioning, even tho it hurts him and sadden him greatly as he was without offspring until his senior years.
What I get from it is that he really wanted offspring, and was really grateful when he had Isaac,....

He was precious to Abraham and he probably loved him more then life.....It seems like the emphasis of the story is to do as you are commanded no matter how much it goes against your instinct,....The lesson that Abraham's descendants learn would be blind obedience to spiritual authority IMHO

 

[RDKirk]

The lesson that Abraham's descendants learn would be blind obedience to spiritual authority IMHO

I already said that earlier in the thread. I'm fine with it.

 

[miknik5]

To create a nation out of Isaac, and Ishmael,....was the 'test' necessary?
What purpose does it serve? God knows exactly what Abraham would do, he knew that Abraham would obey without questioning, even tho it hurts him and sadden him greatly as he was without offspring until his senior years.
What I get from it is that he really wanted offspring, and was really grateful when he had Isaac,....

He was precious to Abraham and he probably loved him more then life.....It seems like the emphasis of the story is to do as you are commanded no matter how much it goes against your instinct,....The lesson that Abraham's descendants learn would be blind obedience to spiritual authority IMHO

To make the distinction between those who, in all seasons and circumstances, in peace and in trials hold steadfast to their faith and hope and trust in GOD that HE, because HIS PROMISES are sure, will make due on all HIS PROMISES

Even when we can't see before us and understand the how's and whys of the circumstances, still our trust is in HIM

Hebrews 11 identifies some of those whose faith were in GOD

 

[PsychoSarah]

Yep
Once again, the hedge (of GOD's protection.) will be removed and there will be another "season of Job" coming

Instead of taking issue in it, study what Job said and did

-_- I don't feel the need to worry about the potential actions of a deity I don't believe exists. Furthermore, why bother with what Job said or did if the deity is going to punish worshipers and nonbelievers alike? Seems to me that I shouldn't be overly bad or overly good, to avoid attracting attention.

 

[FreeinChrist]

The whole story of Abraham and Issac was to show what was to be. God shared His prophecy to people through 'pictures' or actions.

- Issac was Abraham's only begotten son via Sarah - Jesus is the only Begotten of God (though that is a role, but that is another topic)
- The place where Abraham was told to go is where Jesus was later crucified
- Issac carried the wood up the hill like Jesus had to carry the wooden cross

The 'picture' of what was planned was right there.

- Abraham had such great faith that he knew that what God takes away, He will give. Abraham had faith that God could bring Issac back.
- God stopped Abraham say, ""I will provide the sacrifice" and in the future, Jesus who is God Incarnate, was the sacrifice. God Himself provided it.

So it is not a simple story of testing Abraham's faith.

 

[Aldebaran]

I am not sure eternal life is moral unless humanity underwent a significant redesign.

After the resurrection, we get new bodies that last forever. We don't stay in the body we have now (thank goodness!).
I know it's tempting to think of eternity in Heaven in terms of what we're used to experiencing here and now. We think of things as we're used to them at this time, usually based on our personal experience. Believe it or not, I've actually heard people who are blind from birth say that if they were offered the gift of sight, they wouldn't want it because they think it would be too much to handle. They never had sight before and can't comprehend what it would be like. They're used to being blind and don't know existence any other way. It's pretty much the same way for us here on earth being told about eternal life. It's not something you can wrap your mind around, and some people say they wouldn't want it because they can't comprehend it. But trust me, I think you'd enjoy it!

 

[Ygrene Imref]

Except that he actually demanded a human sacrifice.

Just because he stopped it in the last second, doesn't change the fact that he demanded one.

Not to mention that the entire new testament is about celebrating an actual human sacrifice.

I suspect you have not played with the occult, or magick.

Human sacrifice is a very powerful form of encantation and divination. The people at the time who indulged in human sacrifice may have been ignorant of the purpose, but it was to "enpower" those who instilled the practice. That is why pagan human sacrifice was outlawed. Most people who mess with magick don't realize what it does to the SPIRIT, let alone the body. Those who enacted the practice know, however.

But, still: the point was not for Abraham to murder his son, it was to highlight the painful decision of a father to let his son die/kill him for an ultimate good (in this case, for God - as loving someone more than God is breaking commandment 1 and 3 (so, by consequence also commandments 2 and 4.)

It was a foreshadow to Christ's sacrifice, and an insight into the mind of the Father when He delivers His Son to be taken. It really had nothing to do with a juxtaposition between human sacrifice and God''s command to Abraham.

 

[miknik5]

-_- I don't feel the need to worry about the potential actions of a deity I don't believe exists. Furthermore, why bother with what Job said or did if the deity is going to punish worshipers and nonbelievers alike? Seems to me that I shouldn't be overly bad or overly good, to avoid attracting attention.

What do you think it means when GOD removes HIS HEDGE? (Job 1)
What do you think it means when HE who holds all things back is taken out of the way? (2 Thessalonians 2)

 

[JD16]

What do you think it means when GOD removes HIS HEDGE? (Job 1)

"I don't feel the need to worry about the potential actions of a deity I don't believe exists."

You do understand that right? To you, scripture carries authority, to an Atheist it's meaningless

What do you think it means when HE who holds all things back is taken out of the way? (2 Thessalonians 2)

Ditto

 

[miknik5]

"I don't feel the need to worry about the potential actions of a deity I don't believe exists."

You do understand that right? To you, scripture carries authority, to an Atheist it's meaningless



Ditto

How do you offer your input on what GOD was doing through Abraham?

 

[miknik5]

The real question is,...why would a God who is omniscient needs to test anyone? He knows everything, he knew before hand what Abraham would or wouldn't do.....the only reason why we conduct a test is to find out a result like in RL.

Ask yourself, who compiled the bible? what's the moral of the story here? What message is the author of the story trying to convey? Could it be blind obedience? Obey the authority of the church regardless of whether you like it or not?

To create a nation out of Isaac, and Ishmael,....was the 'test' necessary?
What purpose does it serve? God knows exactly what Abraham would do, he knew that Abraham would obey without questioning, even tho it hurts him and sadden him greatly as he was without offspring until his senior years.
What I get from it is that he really wanted offspring, and was really grateful when he had Isaac,....

He was precious to Abraham and he probably loved him more then life.....It seems like the emphasis of the story is to do as you are commanded no matter how much it goes against your instinct,....The lesson that Abraham's descendants learn would be blind obedience to spiritual authority IMHO

"I don't feel the need to worry about the potential actions of a deity I don't believe exists."

You do understand that right? To you, scripture carries authority, to an Atheist it's meaningless



Ditto

You freely offer your personal suggestions on what GOD might have said and meant?

Yet you don't know or believe in HIM

You do understand that your suggestions hold no authority over GOD's WORD regardless of whether you believe in HIM or not

 

[JD16]

You freely offer your personal suggestions on what GOD might have said and meant?

Yet you don't know or believe in HIM

You do understand that your suggestions hold no authority over GOD's WORD regardless of whether you believe in HIM or not

Its my take on a hypothetical situation, do I need to believe before I can analyse? And why can't I comment?

And it's not my intent to hold any authority over random verses written by man regardless of what believers might revere over,

just telling you that quoting the bible to an Atheist, you might as well speak in tongues

 

[Honoluluwindow]

God said in the Bible that human sacrifice (which is what the pagan nations did) is an abomination and wicked, and its one of the reasons that God used the Israelites to judge the pagan nations that lived in the holy land. However, God told Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac to him. Now, Christian apologists argue that God only told Abraham to do it to test his faith, and God stopped him because he didnt really want him to do it. However, why would God tempt people into doing sinful actions, just to test their faith, even if he was going to stop them? Saying "God was just testing Abraham and he didnt really want Abraham to sacrifice Isaac" could also be used to argue, "God asked Abraham to steal or lie or commit idolatry, just to test his faith". God wouldnt lead people into sin just to test him. So why did God tell Abraham to sacrifice Isaac? It seems kind of inconsistent in my opinion.

First let me correct this please. Child please. Ha.
You're reading into Abraham's knowledge the commntents of the Mosaic Covenant, the Law of Moses' 613 commandments.
Abraham was not told that human sacrifice was a sin. Of course we know it is even without faith of any kind, it goes against our human conscience. But as far as holding God accountable in asking Abraham to do something that God had pronounced as sin is simply reading into the story something that cannot be proved to have been prohibited.
The closest thing to it would be in the Noahic covenant where God pronounced capital punishment for pre meditated murder. But this was not a case of murder was it?

 

[Honoluluwindow]

The requirement of faith for Abraham's salvation was to believe God for a son. He did and he was spiritually born again as a result. From then on since God audibly spoke to Abraham in some fashion, it was Abraham's obligation to hear and obey. Abe could have disobeyed and he still would have remained God's chosen person to bring Messiah thru but he didn't, he listened and obeyed. The focus was on Abe's understanding of the goodness of God and the faithfulness of God to complete all that God had promised Abe. He promised a son. He promised that a great nation would come from that son. Thus Abe fully believed God would raise his some from death in order to fulfill God's oath made to him.

 

[Honoluluwindow]

You freely offer your personal suggestions on what GOD might have said and meant?

Yet you don't know or believe in HIM

You do understand that your suggestions hold no authority over GOD's WORD regardless of whether you believe in HIM or not

I enjoyed you question. Did you get my correction?

 

[Honoluluwindow]

Hmmm silenced