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WHY UNIVERSALISM IS NOT TRUE?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by LoveGodsWord, Jul 4, 2021.

  1. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Well of course you are free to believe as you wish. That is between you and God and I do not judge you. The scriptures are provided against your teachings in the OP and a number of other posts on page one for all to see are only provided as a help and sent only in love for anyone that is interested in what Gods Word says on the subject. They are Gods' Word not mine and they are there for all to see. We should be careful as Gods' Word does not contradict itself. If we find that something that we believe is in contradiction with the scriptures it should be a warning to us that perhaps what we believe is in error and not biblical and lead us back to a prayerful study of God's Word asking God to be our guide and teacher. According to the scriptures only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2021
  2. The Liturgist

    The Liturgist Traditional Liturgical Christian

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    That sounds to me a bit like we would risk inflicting unending torment on ourselves if we argued any more; if either universalism or annhilationism are true, or if neither are true, it does not concern us since we are both saved Christians, so if the two of us are debating this point and others a quadrillion years in the future where has that gotten us?

    But then we might risk arguing for all time about who to moderate us!
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2021
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  3. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for providing your opinion. Our opinions do not really matter much according to the scriptures though. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them according to Romans 3:4 and Acts of the Apostles 5:29.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2021
  4. Lazarus Short

    Lazarus Short Well-Known Member

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    Odd, isn't it, that I would tell you much the same? Not too many years ago I subscribed to Hell and eternal conscious torment. I was aware of damnationism, annihilationism and universalism - at some point a few years ago, I decided it was time to investigate and decide. I set them up as theories, and examined a very ordinary KJV to see what theory fit the data (Biblical text) best. It took about two years, during which time I found little support for annihilationism. For damnationism, I kept finding that the verses supporting it were badly translated and/or tweaked. I became a confirmed universalist long before I reached the Revelation. I used Strong's and Young's Concordances, the Oxford English Dictionary and my God-given common sense. Of course I have read all the verses listed/quoted in your OP, but my interpretation is different. My notes grew into a 200+ page book, which I just now realized would qualify as a commentary, though you would not yet agree with its conclusions.
     
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  5. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Well the difference between us is that I have provided you with Gods Word which are not my words but God's. In response you provided me with your words denying the scriptures that are shared with you in love that disagree with you. So who should we believe and follow Gods Words or your words that disagree with Gods' Word?
    I do not believe in the Catholic doctrine of eternal burning hellfire. You must not have looked very hard in relation to what happens after the second coming in regards to the second death of the wicked. Even in the OP and the other posts provided on page one there is over 100+ scriptures posted that you say "There is little support". Either you did not see the scriptures provided in the OP here or you were not looking very hard. Of course you are free to believe as you wish. As posted earlier that is between you and God. The scriptures in the OP and on page one prove that Universalism is not biblical and a false teaching that makes a mockery of the gift of God's dear son and counts the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of Gods' grace according to the scriptures. Sorry dear friend but according to the scriptures there is no second chances at the second coming. His reward is with him to give every man according as his work shall be *Revelation 22:11-14.

    Something to pray about.
     
  6. Lazarus Short

    Lazarus Short Well-Known Member

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    I have prayed and studied. Did you think I crawled out from under a rock with my theology fully formed? I was a damnationist not so long ago. I just don't care to play proof-text ping pong anymore. I could do so, but a full exposition would require the full contents of my 200+ page book, after which, if you read it at all, you would without a doubt, dismiss it. In any case, it is FAR better to believe Jesus and worship the True God, than to go through what the wicked will surely endure before they too, bend the knee and confess Jesus as their Lord and God.
     
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  7. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    We must be careful who we seek the truth of God's Word from. We can seek it from God or man but it is only in Gods' Word that we should seek to know Gods' truth as we seek it by asking God to be our guide and teacher through a prayerful study of His Word claiming His promises (see John 14:26; John 16:13; John 7:17; John 8:31-36; Hebrews 8:11; 1 John 2:27). We can only know the truth of God's Word as we seek it in Christ and are guided by His Spirit. There are few things that I know of that are further from the truth than Universalism which makes a mockery of the death of Jesus and is a contradiction of the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ and the very scriptures as shown in the bible from both the old and new testaments.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2021
  8. Cormack

    Cormack “I bet you're a real hulk on the internet...”

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    It’s easily my least favourite of the ping pongs.
     
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  9. Lazarus Short

    Lazarus Short Well-Known Member

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    "Know"? Then how is it that I know otherwise? One or both of us are wrong. For myself, I seriously doubt I was deceiving myself, or being deceived, as my notes grew to 200+ pages. Here's an example of what I am trying to say - an aunt of mine came back from being a JW, and I had a look at her old New World Translation (if you can call it a translation). I checked the beginning of the Gospel of John, and was shocked at how the text was mangled to fit the theology. That is the failing of so many translations - the theology is set first, and translation follows. I believe it should go the other way. I am presently reading a version without "hell" or related words, and besides that, it is the clearest version I have ever read. Compared to most, it is like looking at the world through a sparkling-clean window after having been used to dirty windows.

    Further, I don't see how UR "...makes a mockery of the death of Jesus and is a contradiction of the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ...". I recall that He said that if He were lifted up, He would draw ALL men to Himself. I also recall the angels telling the shepherds at His birth about peace and goodwill toward men.
     
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  10. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    According to the scriptures sin separates us from God so that he will not hear us in Isaiah 59:9 and if we are living a life of known unrepentant sin God will not hear us (Proverbs 28:9; 13). Also, there is the question of who we seek to know Gods' truth from. Do we seek it from the teachings of men or do we ask God and seek to know the truth of God through His Word by the promise of His Spirit (see John 8:31-36; John 16:13; John 7:17; John 14:26; Hebrews 8:11; 1 John 2:27). The only test to know if someone knows God or does not know is found in 1 John 2:3-4 and the scriptures teach he who God sends speaks the Word of God for God gives not the Spirit by measure to him and he that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God stays on him *John 3:34; 36. Universalism is a message of peace and safety and the bible teaches "For when they shall say, peace and safety; then sudden destruction comes on them, as travail on a woman with child; and they shall not escape" - 1 Thessalonians 5:3. Therefore the scriptures are something to pray about, believe and follow and not take lightly.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2021
  11. Lazarus Short

    Lazarus Short Well-Known Member

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    So tell me, when we have peace & safety in the Kingdom, will you expect sudden destruction? I think you have taken the idea out of context, and made a straw man out of UR. You seem to think I take the Scriptures lightly, but I don't. Anyway, I never thought UR was a message of peace and safety, as if everyone, saints and sinners alike, enter the pearly gates under a shower of rose petals. Hardly - most will need to be salted with Fire. No, wait, I think the Scriptures say everyone. Do you even understand Godfire?
     
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  12. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    By the measure with which ye judge, so will ye be judged.

    Congrats, you've just condemned yourself.
     
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  13. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Dear friend, only God's Word has been shared in this OP. It is God's Word not my words. I do not judge you. What you believe or do not believe is between you and God. It is God's Word however that we accept of reject that will be our judge come judgement day according to the scriptures *John 12:47-48. If you feel condemned by the Word of God that is between you and God not me and you. According to the scriptures it is the Spirit of God the convicts the world of sin and righteousness and of the judgment to come *John 16:7-11.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2021
  14. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Your response here...
    Hello LS, the scripture quoted in 1 Thessalonians 5:3 are in context to what takes place before the second coming not after the second coming so is in context to the rest of the post you are responding to so I do not really understand what your saying here. What is it in the scriptures provided in the post you are responding to that you disagree with? Are you trying to claim that God tortures the wicked into repentance and believing and following him after the second coming? I do not know a God like that from reading my bible.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2021
  15. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    @Shrewd Manager. For me, he must increase and I must decrease. I only point all to the Word of God because it is there we find the one who loves us that we may love him. I know him and am known by him. All that he shows me I see and must show to all because indeed I am blind without Him but he opens my eyes though His Word so that I might see. He tells me it is those that say they see that do not see. These are they that have once known him or do not know him. There is only life in the living Word. These are his Words and not my own. Freely I give because freely I have received. I must speak in the light and what I hear preach in the housetops. Many will not hear because they do not know Him. He is the Word of God and those that believe him are those that he has chosen. They follow him because they love him and are loved by him. Many are called but few are chosen. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgment day. For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for he giveth not the Spirit by measure but many do not hear when they close their eyes to see and their ears to hear. Now what is it in the scriptures provided in the OP that you do not believe dear friend?
     
  16. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    I was thinking it should be our favorite according to 1 Peter 3:15; 2 Timothy 3:16; Acts of the Apostles 17:10-11. Gods' Word is a lamp unto our feet and a light unto our path Psalms 119:105 but many love darkness rather than the light according to the scriptures *John 3:19-21. How can we find our way when the road is dark and narrow if we have no lamp?
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2021
  17. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    Liked what you said here.

    "I say this as an ex-Adventist - I studied my way into it and then studied my way back out again."
     
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  18. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    That sounds a bit confusing.
     
  19. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    Why does that sound confusing?
     
  20. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Well for example you say you studied your way into it and studied your way out of it. That to me sounds confusing. How are the following scriptures not applicable in regards to those who depart the faith? (e.g. 1 Timothy 4:1; Hebrews 6:4-8; James 1:8 etc). I mean how do you know you did not study your way out of the truth of Gods' Word?
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2021
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