Why Trinitarian theology is important

[2ducklow]

John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, AND I work. 18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal WITH God.

Jesus didn't break the sabbath, the Jews thought he broke the sabbath, and they thought that by saying God was his Father that he was making himself equal with God is the meaning of verse 18. If Jesus broke the sabbath, then he was a sinner, but he didn't break the sabbath, and he didn't make himself equal with God, Jesus own words testify to this. the jews merely accused him of breaking the sabbath and making himself equal with God.


John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Since God the Father is greater than Jesus in his own words, then Jesus cannot be equal to God.

Got a utube video comeback for this?

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

there is nothing in your blue verses to even suggest that Jesus is God. If I do what my Dad does, (He was a barber) does that make me my dad? Jesus did what what his Father did because Jesus spoke what his father gave him to speak and because Jesus did his Father's works because the Father was in him doing the works for Jesus could do nothing of his own self but it was his Father that did the works not Jesus. you keep ignoring these scriptures and come back with I'm a buddhist for believing them. which is unbelieveable.

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

God the Father did the works, Jesus said so, not Jesus. Jesus was the vessel that God flowed through unhindered.

you have no comeback for these verses except to call me a buddhist. which is ridiculous in the extreme.

 

[johnd]

lol

 

[johnd]

Not that this hasn't been a real hoot, but I don't expect you to ever see the truth and it is really a waste of time debating with a Buddhist in denial such as yourself.

Jesus could do nothing of himself because if he had he would have not been truly human and had to refrain from doing his own miracles. It did not say he was unable to do them by nature. And later it says he like his Father in fact IS able to do these things by his own nature.

Again, you have to remember according to the Bible Jesus (in preicarnate form created all things created).

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Which he did alone / by himself

Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

The Father did not do this and could not have otherwise the ONLY BEGOTTEN (anything) could not have applied to the Father.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Jesus said the Father in John 14:28 is greater, not better, not of a different nature, not "he's God and I'm not."

The Father has ultimate authority. The Father was in heaven receiving worship at the time while Jesus was down here on earth being reviled by the very people he came to save.

Amazing how many Watchtower J.W. arguments you resort to in order to defend your ultimate Buddhism.

LOL

 

[johnd]

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

"being in the form of God" in the Greek morphe theos huparchon literally never ceasing to be God.

"robbery" actually means grasped after as in something to foist on others like being an American used to be "you can't do this to me, I'm an American." Grasping after privilege.

In stead, Jesus came down from the exalted position of Godhood while never ceasing to be God equal with God (the Father and the Spirit) he took upon himself the form of a man created by his Father (Hebrews 10:5). And he humbled himself to servanthood and unto death on a cross to be the Redeemer.

Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

 

[johnd]

Got a utube video comeback for this?

Um, let's see...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXaILQ-7KEE
​

 

[2ducklow]

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

"being in the form of God" in the Greek morphe theos huparchon literally never ceasing to be God.

incorrect that is not the literal meaning.

(Greek/English Interlinear (tr) NT) Philippians 2:6 oV <3739> {WHO,} en <1722> {IN [THE]} morfh <3444> {FORM} qeou <2316> {OF GOD} uparcwn <5225> (5723) {SUBSISTING,} ouc <3756> {NOT} arpagmon <725> {RAPINE} hghsato <2233> (5662) to <3588> {ESTEEMED IT} einai <1511> (5750) {TO BE} isa <2470> {EQUAL} qew <2316> {WITH GOD;}

http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm
subsisting, not never ceasing.

"robbery" actually means grasped after as in something to foist on others like being an American used to be "you can't do this to me, I'm an American." Grasping after privilege.

In stead, Jesus came down from the exalted position of Godhood while never ceasing to be God equal with God (the Father and the Spirit) he took upon himself the form of a man created by his Father (Hebrews 10:5).

you say 'in the form of god subsisting " means he never ceased to be God, I say he was subsisting in the form of God because all the fullness of the character of God dwelt in him, and it did because Jesus spoke what his Father gave him to speak, and did what his father told him to do which resulted in Jesus always exibiting the morphe of god.
there is no scripture saying Jesus is God, therefore you cannot interpret phil. 2.6 to mean this based on any direct statement to that effect anywhere. whereas my interpretation is based on several scirptures that specifically say what I intepret it to mean, I have already quoted those scriptures several times to you if you have read my posts then you should be familiar with them, I don't know that you have since you never comment on my intepretations.

And he humbled himself to servanthood and unto death on a cross to be the Redeemer.

saying that Jesus is equal with god only proves that he is not God for in order for the meaning to be that Jesus is God the bible would have to say that there are 2 gods, but of course it doesn't , it says there is only one God. So also, There is only one God and if Jesus were equal with the one and only God, then it would mean he wasnt God, for we are not the person or being we are equal with. I am equal with any other american as far as the law is concerned, but I am not you even though we are equal in american justice and law. Do you see the difference in saying "Jesus is God" and "Jesus is equal with God."? So your logic is faulty in the extreme here.

[

Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

(ASV) Philippians 2:6 who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Jesus did not consider grasping at equality with God because he knew it was a no no. Satan did it, and look what happened to satan, Jesus surely wasn't going to make the same mistake.

 

[2ducklow]

Not that this hasn't been a real hoot, but I don't expect you to ever see the truth and it is really a waste of time debating with a Buddhist in denial such as yourself.

Jesus could do nothing of himself because if he had he would have not been truly human and had to refrain from doing his own miracles. It did not say he was unable to do them by nature. And later it says he like his Father in fact IS able to do these things by his own nature.

one major fallacy with that interpretation amongst many is this, there is only one God so if Jesus is God and he refrained from being God, then there would be no God to do the miracles. your interpretation fails the testt of common sense and logic. among many other things. twice in scriptures the unbelieving Jews leveled the charge of Jesus making himself god or equal to God and you base your belief on what unbelieving Jews hurled at Jesus as slander.

[SIZE=+0](ASV) John 10:33 The Jews answered him, For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. [/SIZE]

John 5:18 For this cause therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only brake the sabbath, but also called God his own Father, making himself equal with God.asv

Again, you have to remember according to the Bible Jesus (in preicarnate form created all things created).

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Which he did alone / by himself

the literal reading, which you do not have here, is that all things were created through, in and unto Jesus, figuratively all things were created through and in Jesus , but prob. literally all things were created unto jesus, at any rate the meaning is that Jesus is the reason for all creation.

Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

The Father did not do this and could not have otherwise the ONLY BEGOTTEN (anything) could not have applied to the Father.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Jesus said the Father in John 14:28 is greater, not better, not of a different nature, not "he's God and I'm not."

irrelevant. the point is that God the Father is g reater than Jesus so Jesus cannot be equal to god. thus it was the jews accusation that Jesus was claiming to be equal with God. do you understand the difference between equal and better? I think not for you fail to respond to the question which is "Is God greater than JEsus or equal to Jesus.?"
[do you believe Jesus when he said god the father is greater than him, or do you believe the unbelieving Jews who say Jesus claimed to be equal with God? you are on the side of the unbelieving Jews on this matter.face it.it's a fact jack

 

[2ducklow]

Amazing how many Watchtower J.W. arguments you resort to in order to defend your ultimate Buddhism.

well lets see I've been born again by the word of God, I am spirit filled and have several gifts of the spirit mentioned in 1 cor. 12, I praise Jesus and God the Father in church. Last night I was shouting stuff like "Praise you Jesus," 'glory" 'Hallelujah" thank you JEsus" ""Praise you Father" . and according to you i was reall worshipping Buddha. can I get a big LOL to but buddha charge folks? Interesting t hough our pastor commented on john 5,.18 last night in his sermon. He said that the unbelieving Jews were saying that Jesus was claiming to be God because he said he was the son of God and because Jesus did not explain HOW he was the son of god so they assumed he would be Equal to God because they coinceived of someone being fathered by god as taking on the nature of God , but in reality what happened was that God created male seed , and God the father is the father of Jesus that way, not that god the father had spiritual seed that he fertilized marys egg with. the reason according to my pastor, and I agree with it, that Jesus did not explain how he was the son of God, is because god never told him to explain it. Jesus spoke what his FAther gave him to speak, regardless o f the consequences, and the consequence of Jesus saying he was the son of God was that he was crucified for it. which was what God wanted.

 

[johnd]

well lets see I've been born again by the word of God, I am spirit filled and have several gifts of the spirit mentioned in 1 cor. 12, I praise Jesus and God the Father in church. Last night I was shouting stuff like "Praise you Jesus," 'glory" 'Hallelujah" thank you JEsus" ""Praise you Father" . and according to you i was reall worshipping Buddha. can I get a big LOL to but buddha charge folks? Interesting t hough our pastor commented on john 5,.18 last night in his sermon. He said that the unbelieving Jews were saying that Jesus was claiming to be God because he said he was the son of God and because Jesus did not explain HOW he was the son of god so they assumed he would be Equal to God because they coinceived of someone being fathered by god as taking on the nature of God , but in reality what happened was that God created male seed , and God the father is the father of Jesus that way, not that god the father had spiritual seed that he fertilized marys egg with. the reason according to my pastor, and I agree with it, that Jesus did not explain how he was the son of God, is because god never told him to explain it. Jesus spoke what his FAther gave him to speak, regardless o f the consequences, and the consequence of Jesus saying he was the son of God was that he was crucified for it. which was what God wanted.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

You see, Duck, what you and others who try to tell God how to exist do not realize, it's God's kingdom, God's universe. And only doing what he says the way he says will make you a Christian and therefore saved. So you can either go to heaven God's way or to hell your own way.

Suit yourself. I'm going God's way and unlike you I am not going to impose what I want or want to believe upon God who tells us like it is in scripture.

And you don't even see how your theology is flawed because the Bible puts it ultimately in the nirvana category according to your own Buddhist definitions. You only dress them up in Christian-ese.

 

[2ducklow]

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So if I interpret "god was in Christ" to mean "god was in Christ" that means God will reject me according to you. So when I believe that "My Father is greater than I (jesus speaking)" means God is greater than Jesus God will reject me according to you. so when I believe that "I (Jesus speaking) can do nothing of my self" and "My Father he doeth the works" means Jesus can do nothing of his ownself but it is his Father that doeth the works then God will reject me according to you. It has to be this because this is what we have b een discussing and the interpetations which prompted you to call me a buddhist. I don't know how you can say that I am a buddhist because of this with a straight face, really.

You see, Duck, what you and others who try to tell God how to exist do not realize, it's God's kingdom, God's universe. And only doing what he says the way he says will make you a Christian and therefore saved. So you can either go to heaven God's way or to hell your own way. And you don't even see how your theology is flawed because the Bible puts it ultimately in the nirvana category according to your own Buddhist definitions. You only dress them up in Christian-ese.

So what you're saying is that Buddhist shout for joy saying things like "Praise you Jesus", "Glory", '"Hallelujah", "thank you Jesus" etc. and Buddhists get saved by the word of God, come to know Jesus and God the Father personally, get baptised in Jesus name, Must be cause that is the post you made this reply to.
all you have done is explain your beliefs ignore my responses, and call me a buddhist.

 

[johnd]

No, I am saying that the Bible forces your erroneous theology into a doctrinal corner. For what you say to be true means ultimately that nirvana is what happens to Jesus and believers shall be like him.

So you believe ultimately in Buddhism. I just thought I'd point that out so you can cut right to the chase of your theology and stop wasting yours and Christian's time.

 

[2ducklow]

No, I am saying that the Bible forces your erroneous theology into a doctrinal corner. For what you say to be true means ultimately that nirvana is what happens to Jesus and believers shall be like him.

So I am condemned to hell because I believe that "god was in christ" means "god was in christ". and I am condemned to hell because I believe "My Father is greater than I" means "My Father is greater than I", and I am condemned to hell because I believe that when Jesus said "My father does the works" athat he meant "My Father doeth the works. And I am condemned to hell because when the bible says "we shall be like him" that I believe it means "we shall be like him." and I am suppose to believe that "My father is greater than I" means God isn't better than Jesus as you stated previously, otherwise I"m a budhist. are you for real? so believeing exactly what those scriptures say is nirvana and I am thus a buhhdist. I say ridiculous is too kind a word for your doctrine. what you are saying in effect is if you believe the bible you are a buddhist.

So you believe ultimately in Buddhism. I just thought I'd point that out so you can cut right to the chase of your theology and stop wasting yours and Christian's time.

you don't know how ridiculous what you are saying is. You need to research what a christian is and what a buddhist is.

 

[johnd]

you don't know how ridiculous what you are saying is. You need to research what a christian is and what a buddhist is.

Buddhist believes that losing one's own self / individuality is the ultimate goal to achieve the state of nirvana. Oneness theology to do away with the problem of Oneness theology (namely John 1:1 and John 1:14 that the Word WAS God and the Word was WITH God and the Word became flesh the ONLY begotten of the Father) you have to make it figurative and split hairs over the noun kai noun clause and redefine it as qualitative versus quantitative expression of theos rendering ho logos as a personless manifestation of divine speech through which you claim the Father created all things...

Trouble (for you) is...

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Jesus is praying to return to that preincarnate state. Which Oneness theology insists is personless ho logos. And if we are going to be like him ( 1 John 3:2 ) then nirvana is our destiny too. So if the Oneness theologians are right then the Buddhists are ultimately right.

You sir are a closet Buddhist and you haven't even figured it out yet.

How har har hardy har har it is to laugh.

 

[2ducklow]

[oooops mistakeo.

 

[2ducklow]

Buddhist believes that losing one's own self / individuality is the ultimate goal to achieve the state of nirvana.

Mark 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Oneness theology to do away with the problem of Oneness theology (namely John 1:1 and John 1:14 that the Word WAS God and the Word was WITH God and the Word became flesh the ONLY begotten of the Father) you have to make it figurative

Psalms 119:105 NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Can you say per son i fi ca tion John?

Psalms 107:20 He sendeth his word, and healeth them, And delivereth them from their destructions.

Psalms 119:89 For ever, O Jehovah, Thy word is settled in heaven.

Psalms 147:15 He sendeth forth his commandment upon earth: his word runneth very swiftly.

and split hairs over the noun kai noun clause and redefine it as qualitative versus quantitative expression of theos rendering ho logos as a personless manifestation of divine speech through which you claim the Father created all things...

The car is red. the house is blue, Hitler is Germany, God is Love, love is kind. the word was god. all the same thing grammatically. Uh grammer isn't a dirty word johnd.
Your attempts to make grammer (figurative, qualitative predicate nominative) dirty words is comical johnd.

Trouble (for you) is...

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

no trouble cause

John 17:22 And the glory which thou hast given me I have given unto them; that they may be one, even as we are one;

john 17.22 explains what Jesus did with the glory he asked for. so your interpretation of john 17.5 is inccorrect because Jesus didn't keep the glory he asked for he gave it to us.

you have no explanation, which is par for the course, for why Jesus would ask for the glory of god's own self when Jesus already had the glory of god's own self through out his ministry. to you no explanation gets around all kinds of theological explanations, I have observed from your refuseale to respond to anything I say.

Jesus is praying to return to that preincarnate state. Which Oneness theology insists is personless ho logos. And if we are going to be like him ( 1 John 3:2 ) then nirvana is our destiny too. So if the Oneness theologians are right then the Buddhists are ultimately right.

You sir are a closet Buddhist and you haven't even figured it out yet.

and you are rejecting your brothers in Christ soley because of Trinity. I don't see any trinitarians out preaching "believe the trinity and thou shalt be saved." so you guys are not living up to what you preach. what trinitarians do is try and convert people who are already saved by faith in Jesus christ to their nonbiblcal tirnity doctrine. you try and convert the converted. to false teaching and deny they are saved because of it. No one, I mean no one trys to win people to christ by teaching the trinity doctrine..

ow har har hardy har har it is to laugh.

enjoy your laugh then.

 

[johnd]

Now that I realize what you really are a Christian wanna be Buddhist in denial, all your posts sound like you are just quacking to beat the band.

Quack quack quack quack....

Ahahahahahahahahahaha!

 

[2ducklow]

Now that I realize what you really are a Christian wanna be Buddhist in denial, all your posts sound like you are just quacking to beat the band.

Quack quack quack quack....

Ahahahahahahahahahaha!

your response to all the scriptures that I posted to show that the word is personified in the bible is "quack quack quack". perhaps you could elucidate how "quack quack quack" proves that the word is never personified in the bible.

Psalms 119:105 NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.



Psalms 107:20 He sendeth his word, and healeth them, And delivereth them from their destructions.

Psalms 119:89 For ever, O Jehovah, Thy word is settled in heaven.

Psalms 147:15 He sendeth forth his commandment upon earth: his word runneth very swiftly.

Or John does "quack quack quack" mean the word is personified but you aren't going to let facts get in the way of your doctine?
or does quack quack quack means all grammar is evil and stupid and there is no grammar in the bible? Not sure what you mean by "quack quack quack".

trinity was stolen from the hindus. Trinitarians are practicing hinduism they just change the names but it's the same doctrine that was stolen from hinduism. vishnu was changed to Jesus, and Brahma was changed to God the father, otherwise trinity is just hinduism in disquise. The Jews in babylon picked up the hindu trinity and put it in their kabala, The Greek philosopher Philo who was a kabalist Jew was the key figure in the formation of the trinity doctrine. It was the pharasees who fostered the confusing doctrine of the trinity on unsuspecting christians. Beware of the leaven of the pharasees (which is trinity) as Jesus warned us to do.
Matthew 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Matthew 16:12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Some Oneness researchers, such as William Chalfant, have noted something very odd about the one who played the key role in the development of Trinitarian theory - he was a Jew! Not a Christian. His name? Philo of Alexandria. Pike has inside info on him too; Philo, he says, was a Kabbalist "initiate of the mysteries."

"Because Jewish gnosticism ultimately spread throughout the ancient world to become one of the most compelling philosophies of the first several centuries AD, it is natural that it exert a subtle influence upon orthodox Christianity. There can be little doubt that the contempt for the flesh which resulted in the asceticism, celibacy, and monasticism of the 2nd and 3rd centuries AD can be laid squarely at the feet of Gnostic influence. If gnosticism, then, is a Jewish creation as the Jewish Encyclopedia insists, we are forced to conclude that the Pharisees introduced an element of confusion into Christian theology which we still have not emerged from." ​

No wonder Jesus said "beware of the leaven of the Pharisees!" Matt. 16:6.
As vast an impact upon Christianity as Gnostic Kabbalism has made, yet it is but one of the many subversions of the Great harlot, "Mystery Babylon the great." Not only in religious matters but also in politics, economics, and occultism - "... for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived," Rev. 18:23.











Note: Many have rightly noted the powerful influence of Greek philosophy and the pagan "trinities" of the world in the development of the Trinity doctrine. The Hindu trinity of Brahma, Vishnu, & Shiva, for instance, during the early centuries of the Christian era (the Hindu trinity's origin is Babylon, where it was incorporated by the Jews into the Kabbalah, during their long stay in Babylon. The names of Brahma, Vishnu, & Shiva being transposed into Jewish names of the "sephiroths"). But God bypasses these, his ire and wrath, instead, directed towards an apostate, occult, religious harlot - the REAL culprit.

K. Kirkland, Pastor - This article is Copyright © 1999, All rights reserved.​

http://www.endtime-truth.com/articles1.html ​

It is no coincidence that the hindu and christian trinitys are practically identical. So trinitarians it's time to chant your mantra and go deeper into trinitarianism.​

 

[johnd]

Then follow your theology to the ultimate conclusion. If the Word is without individuality, and Jesus prays to be restored to that state in John 17:5 and in 1 John 3:2 we are all going to be like him.... your theology is therefore Buddhist.

In other words for everything else in the Bible to be true about our (and Jesus') outcome being everything BUT nirvana, then your oneness theology is wrong and dead in the water. The way oneness theology has to depersonalize the Word in John 1 puts the theology itself into a Buddhist versus YHVH conclusion.

So rather than saying Jesus was the word every time it is mentioned in the Bible, it is rather calling Jesus by than name in his preincarnate state.

Psalm 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

 

[2ducklow]

Then follow your theology to the ultimate conclusion. If the Word is without individuality, and Jesus prays to be restored to that state in John 17:5 and in 1 John 3:2 we are all going to be like him.... your theology is therefore Buddhist.

The first error with your reasoning above is that you have a wrong interpretation of John 17.5. I have attempted numerous times to discuss it with you but you refuse to.

Secondly, you have misquoted JOhn 17.5. It does not say 'restore to the state of indiduality with God. read it again.

.John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.ASV
Glorify thou me with thine own self does not mean restore the state of individuality with God. It means restore the Glory of God's own self to Jesus (figuratively). because Jesus already had the glory of God's own self, Jesus stated repeatedly that his father was with him in him doing the works, giving him the words to speak etc. So Jesus had the glory of God's own self throughout his ministry. you are changing scripture here with this individuality = god's own glory. blatantly.
Or a second possibility is that Jesus is asking for the glory of God' own self to be restored to his body, which body all christians are. We are his body he is our head. But it's really the same thing, Jesus is asking as a stand in for the first adam,that the glory of God's own self be restored to Adam (that be us). It is the only possible meaning that takes into account 1 pet. 1.20 and john 17.22.

In other words for everything else in the Bible to be true about our (and Jesus') outcome being everything BUT nirvana, then your oneness theology is wrong and dead in the water. The way oneness theology has to depersonalize the Word in John 1 puts the theology itself into a Buddhist versus YHVH conclusion.

i gave numerous examples of the word being personified. you refuse to comment on it. you call personification depersonalizing the word. the personification of the word as a lamp, as being settled, being sent by God,and as it running swiftly as the verses I quoted state etc. doesn't mean I am a buddhist. It would mean that anyone who believes that the word of God is not literally a lamp is a buddhist. you just absoultely refuse to deal with anything that contradicts your thinking or doctrine such as the scriptures I quoted that are undeniablly personifications of God's word. Except to call me a buddhist.

So rather than saying Jesus was the word every time it is mentioned in the Bible, it is rather calling Jesus by than name in his preincarnate state.

the error with this reasoning is that Jesus had no preincarnate state. I have given numerous scriptures to support it but you will not deal with them. 1 pet. 1.20 for example proves Jesus did not exist before the world began.

1 Peter 1:20 who was foreknown indeed before the foundation of the world, but was manifested at the end of times for your sake,ASV

Jesus was foreknown beforethe foundation of the world, that means he didn't exist for if he did God would have known him not foreknown him. thus john 17.5 cannot mean that Jesus was asking for the glory of God's own self for himself, amognst other reasons I have stated but which you refuse to deal with.

Psalm 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

i don't know what your point is about this verse, but it does go hand in hand with john 1.1.

YOu still haven't dealt with the numerous examples I posted where the word has to be a personification. and if it is personified numerous times else where in the bible, and it is, then there is no valid argument that the word could not possibly be being personified in john 1. your counter to all the points I raise is basicallly , 2ducklow is a buddhist. anyone who cannot deal with facts that counter one's doctrine isn't being honest with themselves IMO. THe word is personified in the old testament, your counter is 2ducklow is a buddhist.

 

[2ducklow]

Guess John got tired of saying "2ducklow is a buddhist" to everything I said.