Why the Nunes Memo Is, At This Moment, Hot Air

NotreDame

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Read the Full Text of the Nunes Memo

The full text of the memo can be read at the link above.

Here is the stated purpose of the memo:

1) raise concerns with the legitimacy and legality of certain DOJ and FBI interactions with the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC), and 2) represent a troubling breakdown of legal processes established to protect the American people from abuses related to the FISA process.
The Nunes memo states in October of 2016 a FISC found probable cause and issued an order to conduct electronic surveillance of Carter Page. The Nunes memo states, "The 'dossier' compiled by Christopher Steele (Steele dossier) on behalf of the Democratic National Committee (DNC) and the Hillary Clinton campaign formed an essential part of the Carter Page FISA application."

Nunes' memo, apparently, is objecting to the use of the dossier. Nunes' memo is also objecting to omission of information and/or facts. "[F]ISC’s rigor in protecting the rights of Americans...is necessarily dependent on the government’s production to the court of all material and relevant facts. This should include information potentially favorable to the target of the FISA application that is known by the government. In the case of Carter Page, the government had at least four independent opportunities before the FISC to accurately provide an accounting of the relevant facts. However, our findings indicate that, as described below, material and relevant information was omitted."

The rights of Americans are protected by the 4th Amendment. The 4th Amendment, as construed by the Court, requires a warrant, based on probable cause, to be issued by a neutral and detached magistrate before a search/seizure may be conducted, unless an exception to the warrant requirement exists. So, what difference does it make whether "material and relevant information was omitted"? The important question is whether the affidavit of probable cause did indeed establish probable cause? A related question is whether inclusion of the omitted "material and relevant information" would have negated the existence of probable cause?

The Nunes memo does not allege the application, order, and/or warrant lacked probable cause. The Nunes' memo does not claim inclusion of the omitted "material and relevant information" would have negated the existence of probable cause. Probable cause may still have existed even if the omitted "material and relevant information" was included.

The affidavit of probable cause submitted to the FISC would be very helpful in determining whether PC existed. If PC existed, and would have existed with the omitted information, then the Nunes' memo is not as alarming as Trump and other suggested. Indeed, the Nunes memo, as presented at this moment, is not alarming at all and should not alarm anyone. Much more information and facts need to be disclosed before justifying any hysteria in relation to what is in Nunes' memo.
 
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NotreDame

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Thank you for explaining this for us Notre Dame. I assume that the affidavit for PC is classified?

To my knowledge, the affidavit is presently classified. Hence, we have no way of verifying whether the house is truly burning down as Nunes' memo suggests.
 
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Arcangl86

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To my knowledge, the affidavit is presently classified. Hence, we have no way of verifying whether the house is truly burning down as Nunes' memo suggests.
You know, I hear the term all the time. What exactly is the standard for probable cause? Would the dossier being the result of oppo research effect that? Of course the memo doesn't mention if the information in the dossier was corroborated at all.
 
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NotreDame

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Ostensibly, the FISA court was aware the dossier was politically motivated.

"One official with knowledge of the matter told The Post that the DOJ made "ample disclosure of relevant, material facts" to the FISC which revealed "the research was being paid for by a political entity."

"No thinking person who read any of these applications would come to any other conclusion" other than that the dossier's production was carried out "at the behest of people with a partisan aim and that it was being done in opposition to Trump," they added.

The revelation appears to corroborate claims made in a 10-page rebuttal memo crafted by Democrats on the House Intelligence Committee. Sources told The New York Times on Friday that the Democratic memo also says the FBI informed the FISC that the dossier was politically motivated, but did not reveal which political entity specifically financed it."​

The central argument in the Nunes memo may have just been debunked
 
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NightHawkeye

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You know, I hear the term all the time. What exactly is the standard for probable cause? Would the dossier being the result of oppo research effect that? Of course the memo doesn't mention if the information in the dossier was corroborated at all.
On the one hand ... a politically inspired and paid for dossier.

On the other hand ... a politically generated memo. Golly, gee, which one to believe? Both? Neither? One should be consistent.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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essentialsaltes

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It's confirmed - Nunes himself admitted it.

But in an appearance on "Fox & Friends," Nunes was asked about reports over the weekend that the FBI application did refer to a political entity connected to the dossier. It is unclear precisely what language the application might have used.

Nunes conceded that a "footnote" to that effect was included in the application, while faulting the bureau for failing to provide more specifics.
 
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MoonlessNight

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We already know that the government spies on us through the NSA and other organizations all of the time without a warrant or with a warrant that probably shouldn't have been issued.

And we already know that government organizations like the IRS have used made politically motivated decisions to harm certain individuals.

This is the status quo of the current US.

Why care if it happened to the president's campaign? That just makes him like the rest of us, doesn't it?
 
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cow451

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We already know that the government spies on us through the NSA and other organizations all of the time without a warrant or with a warrant that probably shouldn't have been issued.

And we already know that government organizations like the IRS have used made politically motivated decisions to harm certain individuals.

This is the status quo of the current US.

Why care if it happened to the president's campaign? That just makes him like the rest of us, doesn't it?
If you are correct it explains why Trump is so angry. He detests the mere thought that he is “ like the rest of us “.
 
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NotreDame

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We already know that the government spies on us through the NSA and other organizations all of the time without a warrant or with a warrant that probably shouldn't have been issued.

And we already know that government organizations like the IRS have used made politically motivated decisions to harm certain individuals.

This is the status quo of the current US.

Why care if it happened to the president's campaign? That just makes him like the rest of us, doesn't it?

Spies on you without a warrant? Sounds frightening. Indeed, such gestapo techniques should cease. What conduct do you specifically reference?
 
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Hank77

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So is there going to be a "Why the Democrats rebuttal Memo is Hot Air" thread?
Sounds good to me. But....
Remember what cow451 said in response to your post. It's my understanding that the Dems want to release it but they can't, Trump has to allow it.
 
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Gigimo

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TLK Valentine

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Rion

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The memo itself is unsubstantiated, but apparently it's one of five memos, and some of the fallout from this memo has been far, far more interesting/potentially damning than this memo. Grassley and Graham's memo, for example, provided the FBI confirms it.

"We" already know this?

Some of us read more news sites than just CNN and Mother Jones.
 
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