WHY THE LORD'S DAY IS NOT SUNDAY

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BobRyan

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Acts 20
"7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight."

The disciples had a meal after the Sabbath (Saturday, sundown) and he preached til midnight, which would be early Sunday morning, not Monday morning as we would assume today.

That's how I heard that explained.

Either way, I don't see enough there or in that other verse to say that the early "church" esteemed what we know as Sunday, above any other day.

Excellent point.

7 Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight.

That day where midnight is a part of it - began at sunset. If that was a first-day meeting that began at Sunset - then the "plan" was for ALL DAY TRAVEL - on Sunday.

IF on the other hand "the first day of the week is the Lord's day" and one of the Bible writers wanted to make that clear - this would have been a great place to explain why they were meeting on week-day-1 and great place to STOP calling it "week day 1" every time, and START calling it "the Lord's Day" having just informed the reader that "week day 1 IS the LORD's day"
 
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BobRyan

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1 Corinthians 16:2
"Upon the first day of the week let each one of you lay by him in store, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come."

This just says do some work on the first day and organize goods to be donated.

Nothing about gathering for "church".

Amen to that!

1 Cor 16
2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

It refers to each person alone at home setting funds aside - by himself.


Robertson –

Lay by him in store (par' eautwi titetw thsaurizwn).


By himself, in his home.
Treasuring it (cf. Matthew 6:19. for thsaurizw). Have the habit of doing it, titetw (present imperative).


BB Dr.Walter on Robertson –

“Dr. Robertson is considered one of the greatest Greek grammarians that has ever lived and I will take his word for the genitive absolute participle ”



Wycliffe New Testament (WYC)

2 one day of the week. Each of you keep at himself [Each of you keep, or lay up, at himself], keeping that that pleaseth to him(self), that when I come, the gatherings be not made.


KJV
2Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.


Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

2 On the first day of the week, each of you is to set something aside and save to the extent that he prospers, so that no collections will need to be made when I come.


Amplified Bible (AMP)

2On the first [day] of each week, let each one of you [personally] put aside something and save it up as he has prospered [in proportion to what he is given], so that no collections will need to be taken after I come.


Darby Translation (DARBY)

2On [the] first of [the] week let each of you put by at home, laying up [in] whatever [degree] he may have prospered, that there may be no collections when I come.
 
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BobRyan

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In fact the promise of the land was given to Abraham way before Moses and it is the faith of Abraham, the Father of All Who Have Faith, that saves us, not the keeping of the Law or Sabbath day.
...
And Abraham was a gentile when He was promised the land...



You called Abraham a Gentile. Gentiles are not called 'Gentiles' until Jews are first defined. A Gentile is anyone who is not a Jew.



Rom 4
10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised.

Eph 2
11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

And the New Covenant on the other hand --

Jer 31
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
 
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Carl Emerson

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For those of us who choose to be under the NEW Covenant of Jer 31:31-44 and Heb 8:6-12 "The law is written on the heart".
Yes... but the law written on the Heart is the 'Law of the Spirit of Life' - not the written law.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Rom 4
10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised.

Eph 2
11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

And the New Covenant on the other hand --

Jer 31
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

The israel being referred to here is the New Israel comprising all believers Jew and Gentile.
 
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klutedavid

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Amen to that!

1 Cor 16
2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

It refers to each person alone at home setting funds aside - by himself.


Robertson –

Lay by him in store (par' eautwi titetw thsaurizwn).


By himself, in his home.
Treasuring it (cf. Matthew 6:19. for thsaurizw). Have the habit of doing it, titetw (present imperative).


BB Dr.Walter on Robertson –

“Dr. Robertson is considered one of the greatest Greek grammarians that has ever lived and I will take his word for the genitive absolute participle ”



Wycliffe New Testament (WYC)

2 one day of the week. Each of you keep at himself [Each of you keep, or lay up, at himself], keeping that that pleaseth to him(self), that when I come, the gatherings be not made.


KJV
2Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.


Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

2 On the first day of the week, each of you is to set something aside and save to the extent that he prospers, so that no collections will need to be made when I come.


Amplified Bible (AMP)

2On the first [day] of each week, let each one of you [personally] put aside something and save it up as he has prospered [in proportion to what he is given], so that no collections will need to be taken after I come.


Darby Translation (DARBY)

2On [the] first of [the] week let each of you put by at home, laying up [in] whatever [degree] he may have prospered, that there may be no collections when I come.
Why were they putting aside money on the first day of the week?

This does not make any sense. If someone puts aside money for Paul at home say. Why would Paul mention that this is to be done on first day?

When is this money collected or gathered, so that no collection of money occurs when Paul arrives?

Your translation of the Greek is nonsensical.
 
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klutedavid

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Rom 4
10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised.

Eph 2
11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

And the New Covenant on the other hand --

Jer 31
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
Can you explain what you mean Bob.

Was Abraham a Jew?

Was everyone else in the world apart from Abraham, Gentiles?
 
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BobRyan

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Yes... but the law written on the Heart is the 'Law of the Spirit of Life' - not the written law.

God wrote them both and makes sure they do not conflict.. Jeremiah is writing to his contemporary readers and knows they all know exactly what the "Law of God" is ... and that is a very helpful detail when trying to rightly interpret the text.

Paul says in Eph 6:1-2 that it includes "honor your father and mother" as the "first commandment with a promise" in that unit of Law well known to both Jeremiah's readers and to Paul's readers.
 
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BobRyan

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Why were they putting aside money on the first day of the week?

Why do people set aside money at the very start to make sure it is not spent before the Sabbath ... if they intend to dedicate it to some project related to the church?

Is that really the question?

This does not make any sense.

Maybe it is something only people in America do and people in the area where Paul was living.
 
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BobRyan

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1 Cor 16
2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

It refers to each person alone at home setting funds aside - by himself.


Robertson –
Lay by him in store
(par' eautwi titetw thsaurizwn).
By himself, in his home. Treasuring it (cf. Matthew 6:19. for thsaurizw). Have the habit of doing it, titetw (present imperative).


BB Dr.Walter on Robertson –

“Dr. Robertson is considered one of the greatest Greek grammarians that has ever lived and I will take his word for the genitive absolute participle ”


Wycliffe New Testament (WYC)
2
one day of the week. Each of you keep at himself [Each of you keep, or lay up, at himself], keeping that that pleaseth to him(self), that when I come, the gatherings be not made.

KJV
2Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.


Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
2
On the first day of the week, each of you is to set something aside and save to the extent that he prospers, so that no collections will need to be made when I come.


Amplified Bible (AMP)
2
On the first [day] of each week, let each one of you [personally] put aside something and save it up as he has prospered [in proportion to what he is given], so that no collections will need to be taken after I come.


Darby Translation (DARBY)
2On [the] first of [the] week let each of you put by at home, laying up [in] whatever [degree] he may have prospered, that there may be no collections when I come.

Your translation of the Greek is nonsensical.

Send them a letter.

Now back to Robertson -

Verse 2

Upon the first day of the week (κατα μιαν σαββατου — kata mian sabbatou). For the singular σαββατου — sabbatou (sabbath) for week see note on Luke 18:12 and note on Mark 16:9. For the use of the cardinal μιαν — mian in sense of ordinal πρωτην — prōtēn after Hebrew fashion in lxx (Robertson, Grammar, p. 672) as in Mark 16:2; Luke 24:1; Acts 20:7. Distributive use of κατα — kata also.

Lay by him in store (παρ εαυτωι τιτετω τησαυριζων — par' heautōi tithetō thēsaurizōn). By himself, in his home. Treasuring it (cf. Matthew 6:19. for τησαυριζω — thēsaurizō). Have the habit of doing it, τιτετω — tithetō (present imperative). As he may prosper (οτι εαν ευοδωται — hoti ean euodōtai). Old verb from ευ — eu well, and οδος — hodos way or journey, to have a good journey, to prosper in general, common in lxx. In N.T. only here and Romans 1:10; 3 John 1:2. It is uncertain what form ευοδωται — euodōtai is, present passive subjunctive, perfect passive indicative, or even perfect passive subjunctive (Moulton, Prolegomena, p. 54). The old MSS. had no accents. Some MSS. even have ευοδωτηι — euodōthēi (first aorist passive subjunctive). But the sense is not altered. οτι — Hoti is accusative of general reference and εαν — ean can occur either with the subjunctive or indicative. This rule for giving occurs also in 2 Corinthians 8:12

===========================next: elephant in living room

This would have been an extremely backhanded way to say "and by that ... I really mean... let each of you gather together for worship on the first day of each week because that is the Lord's Day and we keep in as a memorial of Christ's resurrection".

Instead of that .. it is still limited to the term "week day 1" and still not assigned a title such as "Lord's day" as in "Week day 1 is the Lord's day"
 
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Carl Emerson

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God wrote them both and makes sure they do not conflict.. Jeremiah is writing to his contemporary readers and knows they all know exactly what the "Law of God" is ... and that is a very helpful detail when trying to rightly interpret the text.

Paul says in Eph 6:1-2 that it includes "honor your father and mother" as the "first commandment with a promise in that unit of Law well known to both Jeremiah's readers and to Paul's readers.

Not correct...

The Law of the Spirit of Life cannot be written in like manner as the OT law.

It is a dynamic voice of His presence guiding us in righteousness in every life circumstance like the OT law could never do.

Christ in us, opens the way to a totally new relational obedience that makes the OT law fully redundant. This does not mean that we do not refer to the OT law but the Law of the Spirit of Life has set us free from the law of sin and death.
 
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BobRyan

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Yes... but the law written on the Heart is the 'Law of the Spirit of Life' - not the written law.

God wrote them both and makes sure they do not conflict.. Jeremiah is writing to his contemporary readers and knows they all know exactly what the "Law of God" is ... and that is a very helpful detail when trying to rightly interpret the text.

Paul says in Eph 6:1-2 that it includes "honor your father and mother" as the "first commandment with a promise" in that unit of Law well known to both Jeremiah's readers and to Paul's readers.

Not correct...

On the contrary - Paul is quite correct.

Paul says in Eph 6:1-2 that God's Law still includes "honor your father and mother" as the "first commandment with a promise" in that unit of Law well known to both Jeremiah's readers and to Paul's readers.

The Law of the Spirit of Life cannot be written in like manner as the OT law.

It is a dynamic voice of His presence guiding us in righteousness

Same Law as Paul points out in Eph 6 and in Romans 7 and in Romans 13 and in ...

But not the same "mechanism" ... writing on stone... vs ... writing on the heart.

The point remains.
 
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Carl Emerson

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You have to be joking...

Instead of responding to what I wrote (if you understood it) you have just presented a standard cut and paste.

I can only conclude that you are unwilling or incapable of making a legitimate response to what I was saying...
 
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Tone

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the OT law but the Law of the Spirit of Life has set us free from the law of sin and death.

You think

The OT law = the law of sin and death?

You believe Moses was given a law of sin and death on the mountain and this was placed in the Ark of the Covenant?

If so, how did you come to this conclusion?
 
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klutedavid

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You think

The OT law = the law of sin and death?

You believe Moses was given a law of sin and death on the mountain and this was placed in the Ark of the Covenant?

If so, how did you come to this conclusion?
You break the Sabbath in Israel and you die. That is what the law of sin and death means. The law carried the death sentence for breaching the law.
 
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Tone

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You break the Sabbath in Israel and you die. That is what the law of sin and death means. The law carried the death sentence for breaching the law.

So is the OT law the law of sin and death?
 
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Carl Emerson

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You think
The OT law = the law of sin and death?

You believe Moses was given a law of sin and death on the mountain and this was placed in the Ark of the Covenant?

If so, how did you come to this conclusion?

Romans 8

1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin.
 
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Tone

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klutedavid

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God wrote them both and makes sure they do not conflict.. Jeremiah is writing to his contemporary readers and knows they all know exactly what the "Law of God" is ... and that is a very helpful detail when trying to rightly interpret the text.

Paul says in Eph 6:1-2 that it includes "honor your father and mother" as the "first commandment with a promise" in that unit of Law well known to both Jeremiah's readers and to Paul's readers.



On the contrary - Paul is quite correct.

Paul says in Eph 6:1-2 that God's Law still includes "honor your father and mother" as the "first commandment with a promise" in that unit of Law well known to both Jeremiah's readers and to Paul's readers.



Same Law as Paul points out in Eph 6 and in Romans 7 and in Romans 13 and in ...

But not the same "mechanism" ... writing on stone... vs ... writing on the heart.

The point remains.
Ephesians 6:1-3
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), so that it may be well with you, and that you may live long on the earth.

Sure looks like Paul is giving an instruction to the Ephesians which is mirrored in the law.

'Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.'
 
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Of course Paul refers to the law, but this misses the point entirely.

Like I said -

The Law of the Spirit of Life cannot be written in like manner as the OT law.

It is a dynamic voice of His presence guiding us in righteousness in every life circumstance like the OT law could never do.

Christ in us, opens the way to a totally new relational obedience that makes the OT law fully redundant. This does not mean that we do not refer to the OT law but the Law of the Spirit of Life has set us free from the law of sin and death.
 
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