WHY THE LORD'S DAY IS NOT SUNDAY

[SabbathBlessings]

Absolutely. Reading God's 4th commandment regarding the time of the Sabbath is like someone inviting you for a meeting today on a set time and us turning up the next day when the meeting is over.

Sadly, its very true. The scriptures are so plain, I don’t think our Savior could have made it more clear than He did.

 

[klutedavid]

Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins, but that doesn't mean its okay to sin. The commdmants of God are eternal. Do you think its okay to lie, cheat, steal, murder or break any of His commandments? If Gods law was "done away" than why would the devil be enraged by those who are keeping His commandments if it didn't matter anymore? Revelations 12:17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

There is a promise in the Bible for those who keep His commandments Revelation 22: 14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

I would say keeping Gods commandments are very important. I am surprised how many people try to find a way to not keep them, instead of just keeping them in our hearts and minds.

You said that the ten commandments are eternal laws.

Here is a commandment that you said is eternal.

Exodus 20:14
You shall not commit adultery.

Matthew 22:29-30
But Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven."

So if there is no marriage in heaven, how can the law against committing adultery be an eternal law?

 

[prodromos]

You said that the ten commandments are eternal laws.

Here is a commandment that you said is eternal.

Exodus 20:14
You shall not commit adultery.

Matthew 22:29-30
But Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven."

So if there is no marriage in heaven, how can the law against committing adultery be an eternal law?

After the resurrection there will be no death, so neither will anyone be able to kill or be killed.

 

[klutedavid]

After the resurrection there will be no death, so neither will anyone be able to kill or be killed.

Good point. So how can the ten commandments be eternal?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You said that the ten commandments are eternal laws.

Here is a commandment that you said is eternal.

Exodus 20:14
You shall not commit adultery.

Matthew 22:29-30
But Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven."

So if there is no marriage in heaven, how can the law against committing adultery be an eternal law?

How is not marrying in Heaven committing adultery?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Good point. So how can the ten commandments be eternal?

The commandment is thou shalt not murder and there will be none of that in Heaven either.

 

[prodromos]

Good point. So how can the ten commandments be eternal?

I'm wondering where they came up with this concept of eternal commandments in the first place. They only pertain to mankind, and there was a time where man did not exist, therefore these commandments did not exist then either.

 

[klutedavid]

How is not marrying in Heaven committing adultery?

The term adultery refers to sexual acts between a married person and someone who is not that person's spouse.

So you cannot commit adultery unless one of the persons is married. If there is no wedlock in heaven, then committing adultery is impossible.

So how can the law against adultery be eternal?

 

[klutedavid]

The commandment is thou shalt not murder and there will be none of that in Heaven either.

Which means there is no use for that law in heaven. Hence the law against murder is not eternal.

 

[klutedavid]

I'm wondering where they came up with this concept of eternal commandments in the first place. They only pertain to mankind, and there was a time where man did not exist, therefore these commandments did not exist then either.

So they are temporary?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

ARE GOD'S 10 COMMANDMENTS ETERNAL?

All of God's 10 commandments are eternal. That is why God spoke them and wrote them on tables of stone *Exodus 20:1-17; Exodus 32:16. They were spoken by God alone and were the work of God alone written on two tables of stone. The scriptures teach that whatever God does, It shall be forever. Nothing can be added to it, And nothing taken from it. God does it, that men should fear before Him (Ecclesiastes 3:14). God's 10 commandments were the direct spoken Words of God *Exodus 20:1-17. The scriptures teach also that God's Word is forever and we are to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God All the 10 commandments came directly out of the mouth of God *Exodus 20:1-17 therefore Gods' Word (10 commandments) are eternal *1 Peter 1:25; Matthew 4:4; Psalms 119:85; Isaiah 40:6-8; Matthew 24:35; Isaiah 55:11. God's 10 commandments were the work of God alone written on stone and directly spoken by God alone making them God's work and Gods' Word which the scriptures teach are forever. Sin in the scriptures is defined as breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments *James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4 or not believing and following God's Word *Romans 14:23. There will be no sin (breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments or not believing and not following His Word in heaven). Those who continue to practice known unrepentant sin will not enter into God's Kingdom according to Paul *Hebrews 10:26-31 so all of God's 10 commandments will be obeyed forever and never more broken! So no there will be no murder no adultery, no stealing no lying, no covetousness, dishonoring our parents, no idols, no worshiping other Gods, no using God's name in vain and of course we know we will still continue to remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy according to God's 4th commandment *Isaiah 66:23. So simply in summary God's Word is and is law is eternal. There will no longer be sin (breaking Gods' commandments) in Heaven.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[The Liturgist]

No, we are to follow God's word, which in the early years was an oral, not written Tradition.

Indeed. Also, Sunday worship is enjoined by the Didascalia, a first century book of church order similar to the Didache, which is considered canonical Scripture by the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, which is also the most Judaic of churches, given that nearly all Ethiopians were Jews before the Emperor converted to Christianity in the Fourth Century, and many remained Jews, and the only difference between Ethiopian Jewish and Orthodox Christian worship is that instead of Holy Communion, the Jews practice animal sacrifices, but the vestments their clergy wear, much of the hymnody, and the contents of the Ge’ez Old Testament, and indeed the use of the Ge’ez language (a Semitic language, formerly the main language in Ethiopia, but since supplanted by a newer Semitic tongue, Amharic, not to be confused with Aramaic). So if anyone was going to reject Sunday worship, it would be the Ethiopian Orthodox; they even have an ark on their altar containing tablets of the law, which serves a similar liturgical function to the Byzantine antimension and the Syriac tablitho.

 

[klutedavid]

ARE GOD'S 10 COMMANDMENTS ETERNAL?

All of God's 10 commandments are eternal. That is why God spoke them and wrote them on tables of stone *Exodus 20:3-17; Exodus 31:16. They were spoken by God alone and were the work of God alone written on two tables of stone. The scriptures teach that whatever God does, It shall be forever. Nothing can be added to it, And nothing taken from it. God does it, that men should fear before Him (Ecclesiastes 3:14). God's 10 commandments were the direct spoken Words of God *Exodus 20:3-17. The scriptures teach also that God's Word is forever and we are to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God All the 10 commandments came directly out of the mouth of God *Exodus 20:3-17 therefore Gods' Word (10 commandments) are eternal *Peter 1:25; Matthew 4:4; Psalms 119:85; Isaiah 40:6-8; Matthew 24:35; Isaiah 55:11. God's 10 commandments were the work of God alone written on stone and directly spoken by God alone making them God's work and Gods' Word which the scriptures teach are forever. Sin in the scriptures is defined as breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments *James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4 or not believing and following God's Word *Romans 14:23. There will be no sin (breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments or not believing and not following His Word in heaven). Those who continue to practice known unrepentant sin will not enter into God's Kingdom according to Paul *Hebrews 10:26-31 so all of God's 10 commandments will be obeyed forever and never more broken! So no there will be no murder no adultery, no stealing no lying, no covetousness, dishonoring our parents, no idols, no worshiping other Gods, no using God's name in vain and of course we know we will still continue to remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy according to God's 4th commandment *Isaiah 66:23. So simply in summary God's Word is and is law is eternal. There will no longer be sin (breaking Gods' commandments) in Heaven.

Hope this is helpful.

Was the entire law of Moses spoken by God or someone else?

If the entire law was spoken by God, then the entire law is eternal also.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Was the entire law of Moses spoken by God or someone else?

If the entire law was spoken by God, then the entire law is eternal also.

Only Gods 10 commandments were spoken directly by God and given by God to all of Gods people and then written by God with God's own finger on two tables of stone (Exodus 20:1-17; Exodus 32:16). It is the only law that is directly spoken by God alone and written by God alone on two tables of stone meaning it is an eternal law as shown in the scriptures in post # 1171. (Exodus 20:1-17; Exodus 32:16; Ecclesiastes 3:14; 1 Peter 1:25; Matthew 4:4; Psalms 119:85; Isaiah 40:6-8; Matthew 24:35; Isaiah 55:11). God spoke the rest of the Mosaic laws only to Moses and told him to write them in a book to give to the people.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Indeed. Also, Sunday worship is enjoined by the Didascalia, a first century book of church order similar to the Didache, which is considered canonical Scripture by the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, which is also the most Judaic of churches, given that nearly all Ethiopians were Jews before the Emperor converted to Christianity in the Fourth Century, and many remained Jews, and the only difference between Ethiopian Jewish and Orthodox Christian worship is that instead of Holy Communion, the Jews practice animal sacrifices, but the vestments their clergy wear, much of the hymnody, and the contents of the Ge’ez Old Testament, and indeed the use of the Ge’ez language (a Semitic language, formerly the main language in Ethiopia, but since supplanted by a newer Semitic tongue, Amharic, not to be confused with Aramaic). So if anyone was going to reject Sunday worship, it would be the Ethiopian Orthodox; they even have an ark on their altar containing tablets of the law, which serves a similar liturgical function to the Byzantine antimension and the Syriac tablitho.

Here your talking about the words of the teachings and traditions of men outside of the bible. There is no scripture that says God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day of rest. Even before your teachings here God's Sabbath was kept as verified in the scriptures since God gave it after creation to Jesus and the Apostles, to after the death and resurrection of Jesus, continued by the Apostles and disciples in the first century AD to the 20th century AD today. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them over the teachings and traditions of men that seek to break the commandments of God. Jesus says if we follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God we are not worshiping God in Matthew 15:3-9. So the question we should all be asking ourselves is who do we believe and follow; God or man?

 

[The Liturgist]

Here your talking about the words of the teachings and traditions of men outside of the bible. There is no scripture that says God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day of rest. Even before your teachings here God's Sabbath was kept as verified in the scriptures since God gave it after creation to Jesus and the Apostles, to after the death and resurrection of Jesus, continued by the Apostles and disciples in the first century AD to the 20th century AD today. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them over the teachings and traditions of men that seek to break the commandments of God. Jesus says if we follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God we are not worshiping God in Matthew 15:3-9. So the question we should all be asking ourselves is who do we believe and follow; God or man?

Firstly, the Didascalia, which is sacred scripture, included in the Broad Canon of the Ethiopian church, commends Sunday as a day of rejoicing in the resurrection of the Lord.

Secondly, the traditions of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, like those of many churches, are from God and not from man. The holiness of the Ethiopian church has been attested by the enormous amount of blood spilled by her martyrs over the centuries, and Ethiopians have been martyred by Muslims, Communists and Italian Fascists. I estimate the ratio of Ethiopian to Adventist martyrs is approximately a thousand to one.

Thirdly, when our Lord uses the phrase “traditions of men,” it is inevitably in response to questions involving the Jewish law and the emerging strictures established around it by the Pharisees. Some SDA policies about the Sabbath, such as the ban on shopping, strike me as a direct violation of our Lord’s declaration that the Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.

Fourthly, nowhere in my post did I say anything about supplanting Saturday with Sunday as the Sabbath. This literally makes no sense, because Saturday is the day of rest, and Sunday is the day of the creation and resurrection. It was on the first day that God created the heavens and Earth, it was on the sixth day He created man in His image, and it was on the seventh He rested. Likewise, it was on the first day that God entered Jerusalem on a colt, it was on the sixth day that He died, showing us through His death what it means to be human, as realized by the ashamed Pontius Pilate when he said “Ecce, homo” meaning “Behold the man.” And it was on the seventh day that God rested in a tomb, before rising again having remade mankind in His image on the eighth day.

Christians should observe the Sabbath to commemorate Christ resting in a tomb, in one of three ways: by attending Holy Communion when it is served on the Sabbath, which is virtually every Saturday in the Coptic and Ethiopian church, by attending Vespers that mark the end of the Sabbath and the beginning of the Day of Resurrection, on Saturday Evening, and most importantly, even if the other two services are impossible to attend, by attending Vespers on the evening of Good Friday, which marks the beginning of Holy Saturday, and by attending any and all services on Holy Saturday.

These three days, Friday, Saturday and Sunday, are the most important in Christianity, for on the sixth day, man was created, and recreated by Christ, the New Adam, on the Cross, on the seventh, God rested and furthermore rested in a tomb following His passion, and on the first and eighth day, the universe was created by the Word of God, and the universe was recreated by the Resurrection of the Word of God.

Sunday is therefore the most important day to attend church, but Friday and Saturday are also extremely important. Wednesday, the day of our Lord’s betrayal, is, like Friday, also important as a fasting day; this was the practice of the first Christians, and the practice of John Wesley.

Ideally, Christians would attend church on Wednesday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday, and on any other Holy Days, but the intrusion of secular pressure precludes this for many. Interestingly, in the Syriac Orthodox Church, the Eucharist can be celebrated only on Wednesday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday, plus any holy days on fixed dates, such as Christmas, the Transfiguration, the Dormition, and the Exaltation of the Holy Cross.

On a side note, on the few occasions I have visited SDA churches, I was dismayed by the lack of a cross. This was in the mid 1990s. Is it still the case that you have no crosses in the nave (or “sanctuary”) of your churches?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Firstly, the Didascalia, which is sacred scripture, included in the Broad Canon of the Ethiopian church, commends Sunday as a day of rejoicing in the resurrection of the Lord.

Secondly, the traditions of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, like those of many churches, are from God and not from man. The holiness of the Ethiopian church has been attested by the enormous amount of blood spilled by her martyrs over the centuries, and Ethiopians have been martyred by Muslims, Communists and Italian Fascists. I estimate the ratio of Ethiopian to Adventist martyrs is approximately a thousand to one.

Thirdly, when our Lord uses the phrase “traditions of men,” it is inevitably in response to questions involving the Jewish law and the emerging strictures established around it by the Pharisees. Some SDA policies about the Sabbath, such as the ban on shopping, strike me as a direct violation of our Lord’s declaration that the Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.

Fourthly, nowhere in my post did I say anything about supplanting Saturday with Sunday as the Sabbath. This literally makes no sense, because Saturday is the day of rest, and Sunday is the day of the creation and resurrection. It was on the first day that God created the heavens and Earth, it was on the sixth day He created man in His image, and it was on the seventh He rested. Likewise, it was on the first day that God entered Jerusalem on a colt, it was on the sixth day that He died, showing us through His death what it means to be human, as realized by the ashamed Pontius Pilate when he said “Ecce, homo” meaning “Behold the man.” And it was on the seventh day that God rested in a tomb, before rising again having remade mankind in His image on the eighth day.

Christians should observe the Sabbath to commemorate Christ resting in a tomb, in one of three ways: by attending Holy Communion when it is served on the Sabbath, which is virtually every Saturday in the Coptic and Ethiopian church, by attending Vespers that mark the end of the Sabbath and the beginning of the Day of Resurrection, on Saturday Evening, and most importantly, even if the other two services are impossible to attend, by attending Vespers on the evening of Good Friday, which marks the beginning of Holy Saturday, and by attending any and all services on Holy Saturday.

These three days, Friday, Saturday and Sunday, are the most important in Christianity, for on the sixth day, man was created, and recreated by Christ, the New Adam, on the Cross, on the seventh, God rested and furthermore rested in a tomb following His passion, and on the first and eighth day, the universe was created by the Word of God, and the universe was recreated by the Resurrection of the Word of God.

Sunday is therefore the most important day to attend church, but Friday and Saturday are also extremely important. Wednesday, the day of our Lord’s betrayal, is, like Friday, also important as a fasting day; this was the practice of the first Christians, and the practice of John Wesley.

Ideally, Christians would attend church on Wednesday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday, and on any other Holy Days, but the intrusion of secular pressure precludes this for many. Interestingly, in the Syriac Orthodox Church, the Eucharist can be celebrated only on Wednesday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday, plus any holy days on fixed dates, such as Christmas, the Transfiguration, the Dormition, and the Exaltation of the Holy Cross.

On a side note, on the few occasions I have visited SDA churches, I was dismayed by the lack of a cross. This was in the mid 1990s. Is it still the case that you have no crosses in the nave (or “sanctuary”) of your churches?

Should anything be considered more scared than the Bible? All supplemental writings should magnify Gods Word and not change it.

Just a couple quick notes on your post. The first day of the week is a day of creation, not the day of creation. Saturday Sabbath is more than a day of rest. The first verse of the 4th commandant God wrote “Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy”. Exodus 20:8 So its a Holy day, Sacred. There is nothing in the Bible where the first day of the week is Holy, Sacred or Blessed. Not keeping Sabbath Holy and instead keeping a day God considered a working day and not a Holy day is a tradition of man that we are warned about:

Mathew 15:

‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

The first day worshipping is a commandment of man, not God.

This is Gods commandment:
Exodus 20
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In ityou shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who iswithin your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lordblessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Do you follow what God wrote or do you follow man?

 

[CMDRExorcist]

Couldn't he also change what day the Sabbath is observed? FWIW, I maintain that keeping the Sabbath is not the same thing as worshiping God. Keeping the Sabbath is for your personal rest. Worshiping God, if you pay any attention to David, is not restful. Some of us, myself included, think we should do both. Keep the Sabbath and worship our Lord and Savior on Sunday.

Personally, I believe that he could. Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath. Although He is the same today and every day, that's not to say that he couldn't have changed things if he wanted to. I think it's less important to worry about what day we're supposed to observe the Sabbath and more important to ensure that we do take that time to rest and reflect on God.

 

[The Liturgist]

Should anything be considered more scared than the Bible? All supplemental writings should magnify Gods Word and not change it.

The Didascalia is a canonical part of the Ethiopian Orthodox New Testament.

Also, remember, the Word of God is Jesus Christ (John 1:1). Sacred scripture records his words, prophecies his birth and second coming, and proclaims His Gospel. But it is not the Word; it is a verbal icon of the Word.

Just a couple quick notes on your post. The first day of the week is a day of creation, not the day of creation. Saturday Sabbath is more than a day of rest. The first verse of the 4th commandant God wrote “Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy”. Exodus 20:8 So its a Holy day, Sacred.

God also wrote the Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. Our lord gathered food on the Sabbath, which outraged the Pharisees.

There is nothing in the Bible where the first day of the week is Holy, Sacred or Blessed.

That is frankly preposterous. How could the First Day, on which our Lord said “Let there be light!” thus creating the Universe, and on which our same Lord, the Incarnate Word of God, arose from the dead, be anything other than Holy, Sacred or Blessed? The creation account in Genesis 1 is enough to regard the first day as sacred. But as I stated in my previous post, the Sabbath is also Holy, for it was on that day that our God who created the Heavens and Earth rested in a tomb. He who is uncontainable was contained; the incarnate Son and Word of God trampled down death by death.

This renders your subsequent allegation that I somehow reject keeping the Sabbath Holy entirely without merit, for not only do I believe in the remembrance of the Great and Holy Sabbath and the repose of God after creation and in a tomb, but you also commit an error of gross eisegesis:

Not keeping Sabbath Holy and instead keeping a day God considered a working day and not a Holy day is a tradition of man that we are warned about:

Mathew 15:

‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

And just three chapters earlier, in Matthew 12, Jesus repudiated a legalistic interpretation of the sabbath, by collecting and eating grain, and healing the withered arm of a man over the objections of the Pharisees. And the commandments of men God our Savior is referring to are the legalistic decrees of the Pharisees, not the decisions of the Church. Unless someone wanted to dare to allege that the Council of Jerusalem’s decision that circumcision was not required for gentile converts was a “commandment of men.”

The first day worshipping is a commandment of man, not God.

This is again ridiculous considering that sacrifices were offered every day in the Temple, and Jewish synagogues as established by Ezra the Priest and Nehemiah the Prophet worshipped daily, and still do worship daily as long as they can get a minyan (a quorum of ten men in an orthodox or Masorti synagogue, or ten Jewish men and women in a Reform synagogue). And in Israel, you will see shopkeepers observing the thrice-daily prayers in the alleys of the marketplace where the nearest synagogue is too far.

This is Gods commandment:
Exodus 20
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In ityou shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who iswithin your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lordblessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Do you follow what God wrote or do you follow man?

I follow the Gospel and what the only begotten Son and Word of God, Jesus Christ, taught about the Sabbath. For this reason, I advocate that Christians attend Holy Communion on both Saturday and Sunday, that they attend Vespers on Friday and Saturday evening, and if nothing else, they should attend Good Friday and Holy Saturday, to commemorate the death, repose, and resurrection of God and His creation and recreation of the World. Holy Saturday is also the traditional day for baptizing catechumens, for we die and are reborn in the waters of Baptism, just as our Lord died on Friday and rose again on Sunday. It is also customary to read on Holy Saturday, in both the Eastern and Western liturgical rites, the scriptural prophecies concerning the passion, repose and resurrection of our Lord (in the Roman Rite, before Pope Pius XII ruined the Paschal Triduum, there were 12 prophecies read, and in the Byzantine Rite, 13 are read).

 

[The Liturgist]

By the way, I wish an SDA member would answer my question concerning the presence of crosses in SDA churches, as opposed to just falsely accusing me of failing to keep the Sabbath holy. Saturday is one of the two days of the week I hold church services.