WHY THE LORD'S DAY IS NOT SUNDAY

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SabbathBlessings

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Doesn't the Son of Man have ultimate authority over the Sabbath and can decide what happens and when on that day? I'm not really sure he could break it given that he could (and did) change the rules at will.
That’s not what Jesus said. He said He kept His Fathers commandments, meaning He never sinned. John 15: 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in His love.

John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

Jesus never changed the commandments of God, He kept them and asked us to do the same.
 
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klutedavid

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What commandments exactly are you referring to?

The new covenant say this:
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. Hebrews 8:10

What does this mean? It's Gods commandments magnified. We are to obey His laws in actions (minds) and in our hearts, because we love Him. Do you want to abide in His love like you quoted? He tells you how, which means you keep all of His laws, which includes His 4th commandment. I pray this helps.
I am referring to the new commandments. What commandments are you referring to?

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him.

Are you keeping these two commandments?

What law do you think that God will write on your heart?
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Doesn't the Son of Man have ultimate authority over the Sabbath and can decide what happens and when on that day? I'm not really sure he could break it given that he could (and did) change the rules at will.
It's not really a matter of changing the rules, it's a matter of knowing which rules were spoken by God, and which ones were added by man later. Only Jesus can really know that. We might get a hint when we extensively apply something and the advertised fruit simply does not spring forth.

But most importantly, Jesus operated on the foundation the law was based on, so the law was like paper mashay to the reality that Jesus was aware of and lived according to.

This is why the body is referred to as Christ, and the law is referred to as shadow.

to follow the law, when we're given the Holy Spirit, means to walk in darkness.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Actually Michael Jesus never broke the Sabbath
But the gospel of John said he did though. So maybe your idea of what Jesus musted have done is wrong?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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But the gospel of John said he did though. So maybe your idea of what Jesus musted have done is wrong?
No Michael. Jesus did not break the Sabbath it is impossible as he was the creator and maker of the Sabbath who knows how to keep it. Jesus breaking the Sabbath was according to the man-made teachings and traditions of the Scribes and the Pharisees which were not based on the scriptures. Jesus was sinless. If Jesus broke God's 4th commandment he was a sinner like you and me and could not be our sinless sacrifice for sin and we are all lost. No dear friend, Jesus was sinless! (Please see; 1 Peter 2:22; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 4:15; 1 John 3:5; 1 Peter 1:18-19).
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I am referring to the new commandments. What commandments are you referring to?

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him.

Are you keeping these two commandments?

What law do you think that God will write on your heart?
God wrote His laws in our hearts and minds (second covenant) before Jesus came. God commdmants are found in Exodus 20 (first covenant) Second covenant are the same laws, but magnified.

The new commandments you are referring to from Jesus are Gods 10 commandments summarized. The first 4 how we show God our love and the last 6 how we show love to each other.

How do you show God our love? He tells us by keeping His commandments, 1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Keeping all of Gods commandments is showing Him our love.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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No Michael. Jesus did not break the Sabbath it is impossible as he was the creator and maker of the Sabbath who knows how to keep it. Jesus breaking the Sabbath was according to the man-made teachings and traditions of the Scribes and the Pharisees which were not based on the scriptures. Jesus was sinless. If Jesus broke God's 4th commandment he was a sinner like you and me and could not be our sinless sacrifice for sin and we are all lost. No dear friend, Jesus was sinless! (Please see; 1 Peter 2:22; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 4:15; 1 John 3:5; 1 Peter 1:18-19).
I know Jesus was sinless, in the eyes of God.

So whatever was observed as an offense was in the eyes of man.

In any case, the way Jesus operated, the Sabbath rules didn't matter much, now did they?

I recall someone even gathering food on the sabbath back in Moses' day lead to the death penalty. So by the time Jesus came along and picked grain with the disciples because they were hungry, apparently picking left over grain that was meant for the poor on the sabbath is not considered work. If only the lying scribes of Jeremiah 8:8 hadn't omitted that fine point that was probably written previously.

Since scripture records dishonest scribes, only Jesus could have fulfilled what was written about Him because only He knew what He said.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I know Jesus was sinless, in the eyes of God.

So whatever was observed as an offense was in the eyes of man.

In any case, the way Jesus operated, the Sabbath rules didn't matter much, now did they?
Jesus kept the Sabbath the way it was intended for all of us. To suggest otherwise is making it sound like Jesus was a sinner, and Jesus clearly tells us He kept all of the commdmants, which includes the 4th and He asked us to do the same John 15:10
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Jesus kept the Sabbath the way it was intended for all of us. To suggest otherwise is making it sound like Jesus was a sinner, and Jesus clearly tells us He kept all of the commdmants, which includes the 4th and He asked us to do the same John 15:10
What I'm observing is that you are proposing a following of the law as if Jesus hadn't died on the cross. I of course disagree because the new testament teachings tell me to do so.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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What I'm observing is that you are proposing a following of the law as if Jesus hadn't died on the cross. I of course disagree because the new testament teachings tell me to do so.
Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins, but that doesn't mean its okay to sin. The commdmants of God are eternal. Do you think its okay to lie, cheat, steal, murder or break any of His commandments? If Gods law was "done away" than why would the devil be enraged by those who are keeping His commandments if it didn't matter anymore? Revelations 12:17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

There is a promise in the Bible for those who keep His commandments Revelation 22: 14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

I would say keeping Gods commandments are very important. I am surprised how many people try to find a way to not keep them, instead of just keeping them in our hearts and minds.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins, but that doesn't mean its okay to sin. The commdmants of God are eternal. Do you think its okay to lie, cheat, steal, murder or break any of His commandments? If Gods law was "done away" than why would the devil be enraged by those who are keeping His commandments if it didn't matter anymore? Revelations 12:17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

There is a promise in the Bible for those who keep His commandments Revelation 22: 14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

I would say keeping Gods commandments are very important. I am surprised how many people try to find a way to not keep them, instead of just keeping them in our hearts and minds.
In the New Testament scriptures we are provided summaries of the commandments so we can determine how to make a course of action.

Romans 13 lists a bunch of the commandments and then says these and any other commandment are summed up in a brief saying that love does not harm their neighbor. The next chapter also has a useful general statement about sin that anything that is not of faith is sin. James chapter 3 around the end gives a good illustration of what good wisdom is and bad wisdom is based on the character of the person speaking. Having summaries like this allows people to know what they should do based on what is right, instead of following rules that have been manipulated so they can wrong people.

Furthermore, in Matthew 5:28 and also in 1 John 3:15 passages are introduced indicating that just keeping up appearances on the outside is not enough. Since lusting at someone is the same thing as having sex with them, and hating someone is the same as murdering them: This reveals there is an intent based criteria that we are now responsible for.

Since we are responsible for spiritual adultery and spiritual murder, observing a spiritual sabbath is also important in interest of consistency.

The old way is not the new way, there is simply more to it.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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In the New Testament scriptures we are provided summaries of the commandments so we can determine how to make a course of action.

Romans 13 lists a bunch of the commandments and then says these and any other commandment are summed up in a brief saying that love does not harm their neighbor. The next chapter also has a useful general statement about sin that anything that is not of faith is sin. James chapter 3 around the end gives a good illustration of what good wisdom is and bad wisdom is based on the character of the person speaking. Having summaries like this allows people to know what they should do based on what is right, instead of following rules that have been manipulated so they can wrong people.

Furthermore, in Matthew 5:28 and also in 1 John 3:15 passages are introduced indicating that just keeping up appearances on the outside is not enough. Since lusting at someone is the same thing as having sex with them, and hating someone is the same as murdering them: This reveals there is an intent based criteria that we are now responsible for.

Since we are responsible for spiritual adultery and spiritual murder, observing a spiritual sabbath is also important in interest of consistency.

The old way is not the new way, there is simply more to it.
Yes, of course you are referring to Gods 10 commandments but “magnified” in the second covenant, the same laws are now to be in our hearts and minds. We are still to obey the same commandments but we do so with a happy heart in both spirit and letter.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Who do you think benefits the most when we worship God not on the day He asked us to keep Holy? Satan is the greatest deceiver, but if you know and understand the scriptures, you will know when something is false. The Bible warns us about it a head of time, so we will not be deceived.
Absolutely. Reading God's 4th commandment regarding the time of the Sabbath is like someone inviting you for a meeting today on a set time and us turning up the next day when the meeting is over.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Yes, of course you are referring to Gods 10 commandments but “magnified” in the second covenant, the same laws are now to be in our hearts and minds. We are still to obey the same commandments but we do so with a happy heart in both spirit and letter.
Though there's probably more to be said, I see that this is a good stopping point, thanks for the discussion imge and LoveGodsWord.
 
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Root of Jesse

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Because we believe in all 10 of God’s commandments and not just nine? How confusing would it be for God to say “Remember” His Holy seventh day Sabbath when he actually meant “Forget” which is what some people want to believe. God says He is unchanging so I am going to trust Him when He asked us to Remember that He meant it.
You cannot prove that we only believe 9...I'm not talking about individual practice, but doctrinal. You want to say that Sunday isn't the Sabbath, that's an opinion you hold, but we believe Christ fulfilled the law.
 
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Root of Jesse

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Doesn't the Son of Man have ultimate authority over the Sabbath and can decide what happens and when on that day? I'm not really sure he could break it given that he could (and did) change the rules at will.
Couldn't he also change what day the Sabbath is observed? FWIW, I maintain that keeping the Sabbath is not the same thing as worshiping God. Keeping the Sabbath is for your personal rest. Worshiping God, if you pay any attention to David, is not restful. Some of us, myself included, think we should do both. Keep the Sabbath and worship our Lord and Savior on Sunday.
 
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Root of Jesse

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Who do you think benefits the most when we worship God not on the day He asked us to keep Holy? Satan is the greatest deceiver, but if you know and understand the scriptures, you will know when something is false. The Bible warns us about it a head of time, so we will not be deceived.
Keeping the Sabbath is not the same thing as worshiping God. Though in that day and age, they worshiped on that day they weren't in the fields working...
We also know that we aren't to change Scripture (as the founder of SDA did).
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Keeping the Sabbath is not the same thing as worshiping God. Though in that day and age, they worshiped on that day they weren't in the fields working...
We also know that we aren't to change Scripture (as the founder of SDA did).
God is the one telling us to keep His Sabbath Holy See Exodus 20 8-11 and if you do not like worshipping Him on His Holy Sabbath on this earth will you want to on the New Earth?
Isaiah 66:23
And it shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the LORD.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Couldn't he also change what day the Sabbath is observed? FWIW, I maintain that keeping the Sabbath is not the same thing as worshiping God. Keeping the Sabbath is for your personal rest. Worshiping God, if you pay any attention to David, is not restful. Some of us, myself included, think we should do both. Keep the Sabbath and worship our Lord and Savior on Sunday.
God Blessed, sanctified, made Holy and asked us not to forget His seventh day Sabbath, but yet you prefer to worship Him on day He said was a working day and not a Holy day?
 
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You cannot prove that we only believe 9...I'm not talking about individual practice, but doctrinal. You want to say that Sunday isn't the Sabbath, that's an opinion you hold, but we believe Christ fulfilled the law.
It’s not my opinion, its Gods Word that He both wrote and spoke Exodus 20 8-11 and asked us to REMEMBER which means we are not supposed to forget.
 
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