WHY THE LORD'S DAY IS NOT SUNDAY

[Carl Emerson]

Not according to the scriptures. God's 4th commandment Sabbath in the new covenant is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 andif we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11.

Hebrews 4:9 THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH

God bless

That is not the wording of the verse...

"There remains a sabbath rest for the people of God...

 

[Carl Emerson]

"six days you shall labor... for in six days the LORD MADE..." Ex 20:8-11... it is a day of the week.

It is a day of the creation week that is being referenced.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

That is not the wording of the verse...

"There remains a sabbath rest for the people of God...

Sure it is. HEBREW 4:9 THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH is the Aramaic version and the most accurate translation of this text but your version is also ok. The context is the seventh day sabbath at creation in Hebrews 4:1-5.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It is a day of the creation week that is being referenced.

Indeed. This is the Sabbath which is the seventh day of the week which is Gods 4th commandment that has it's origin in creation *GENESIS 2:1-3; EXODUS 20:8-11

 

[Der Alte]

for all eternity after the cross, in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

You omitted part of the verse. Why? "From new moon to new moon" = month to month. From Sabbath to Sabbath = from week to week.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

sorry wrong post

 

[Carl Emerson]

Indeed. This is the Sabbath which is the seventh day of the week which is Gods 4th commandment that has it's origin in creation *GENESIS 2:1-3; EXODUS 20:8-11

This is a permanent joining with Him in rest that has nothing to do with days of the week on earth.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

We all agree that Sunday is what the Bible calls "week-day-1".

The reason it is not the "Lord's Day" is that there is no bible text that says "week-day-1 is the Lord's Day".

We do have

1. The Son of Man is LORD of the Sabbath Mark 2:28
2. "The Sabbath - the Holy Day of the LORD" Isaiah 58:13

But there is no "week day 1 is the Lord's day"
There is the fact of meeting "every Sabbath" for worship and gospel preaching in Acts 18:4

But there is no "meeting every week-day-1 for worship and gospel preaching" in all of the NT

Yes good post Bob, and that is the point of this thread. There is no scripture that says Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day" This is a false teaching handed down from the mother church to all of christianity foretold in Daniel 7:25 [25], And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

God bless

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

We all agree that Sunday is what the Bible calls "week-day-1".

No, we can't. The Bible never called Sunday anything. It didn't exist in the Hebrew lunar calendar. It was those pesky pagan Romans who declared Sunday to be the first day of the week.

Can you show me a single scripture that says Sunday is "the Lords day"?

You can't show me a single scripture that calls Saturday the Lord's Day. Saturday is not a Biblical day. The concept of Saturday did not exist under any name in the Hebrew lunar calendar.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

This is a permanent joining with Him in rest that has nothing to do with days of the week on earth.

Scripture please?

 

[Carl Emerson]

I have already referenced Heb 4.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You can't show me a single scripture that calls Saturday the Lord's Day. Saturday is not a Biblical day. The concept of Saturday did not exist under any name in the Hebrew lunar calendar.

Why would you think that? It was already posted in the OP...

MATTHEW 12:8 [8], FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY

The Greek used in Revelation 1:10 is to the "Lords ownership of the day"

The word "κυριακη" (translit. "kuriake") is an Adjective - Dative - Singular - Feminine. This means it is being used as a 'possessive' as ownership or belonging to ("of", see 1 Corinthians 11:20, "the Lord's supper"), which means the "day" in context belongs to "the Lord". It is literally "the Lord's (belonging to) day".

blessings

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I have already referenced Heb 4.

The context of Hebrews 4 is talking about the Sabbath *HEBREWS 4:1-5
HEBREWS 4:9 THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Why would you think that? It was already posted in the OP...

MATTHEW 12:8 [8], FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY

The Greek used in Revelation 1:10 is to the "Lords ownership of the day"

The word "κυριακη" (translit. "kuriake") is an Adjective - Dative - Singular - Feminine. This means it is being used as a 'possessive' as ownership or belonging to ("of", see 1 Corinthians 11:20, "the Lord's supper"), which means the "day" in context belongs to "the Lord". It is literally "the Lord's (belonging to) day".

blessings

Thanks for proving my point. Saturday is nowhere mentioned. The Bible does refer to the seventh day, but never to Saturday. The seventh day was declared the Sabbath at a time when the Israelites followed a lunar calendar. Therefore, the seventh day was not Saturday, even by another name, because the schedule would have been asynchronous.

 

[Carl Emerson]

LGW

That verse is usually rendered...

"There remains therefore s a sabbath rest for the people of God..."

The two renderings carry entirely different meanings, I suggest we get this sorted out first given that your argument hinges on an unusual translation.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Thanks for proving my point. Saturday is nowhere mentioned. The Bible does refer to the seventh day, but never to Saturday. The seventh day was declared the Sabbath at a time when the Israelites followed a lunar calendar. Therefore, the seventh day was not Saturday, even by another name, because the schedule would have been asynchronous.

Your point was not proven. It was dismissed with MATTHEW 12:8

MATTHEW 12:8 [8], FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY

In the Hebrew and the Greek they did not use the same names of the days that we have today. They simply used God's names which were (in our days); day 1 (Sunday), day 2, (Monday), day 3 (Tuesday), day 4 (Wednesday), day 5 (Thursday), day 6 prepration before the Sabbath (Friday) and Sabbath (day 7).

Hope this helps

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LGW

That verse is usually rendered...

"There remains therefore s a sabbath rest for the people of God..."

The two renderings carry entirely different meanings, I suggest we get this sorted out first given that your argument hinges on an unusual translation.

True both are acceptable and prove my point when applied to the context of Hebrews 4:1-5. Yet it is the Aramiac rendering I believe that is most accurate to the orginal Greek.

HEBREWS 4:9 [9], SO THEN IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

Now notice Hebrews 4, verse 9: “There remains therefore a SABBATH rest to the people of God.” In verses 1, 3, 4 and 8, the Greek word for “rest” is katapausin. It means “rest.” But in verse 9, the Greek word for “rest” is sabbatismos, which is a Hebrew word—Sabbat, which means “the Sabbath”—combined with a Greek suffix—ismos, which means “a keeping of” or “a doing of.” Put together, sabbatismos means “a keeping of the Sabbath (noun).” When correctly translated, Hebrews 4:9 should read, “There remains therefore a keeping of the Sabbath to the people of God.” Sabbatizo is the verb form of sabbatismos

GREEK INTERLINEAR
HEBREWS 4:9 άρα (Then) απολείπεται (there is left) σαββατισμός (a Sabbath rest) τω (to the) λαώ (people) του θεού (of God)

STRONGS LEXICON
So ἄρα (ara) Conjunction Strong's Greek 686: Then, therefore, since. Probably from airo; a particle denoting an inference more or less decisive.
there remains ἀπολείπεται (apoleipetai) Verb - Present Indicative Middle or Passive - 3rd Person Singular Strong's Greek 620: From apo and leipo; to leave behind; by implication, to forsake. a Sabbath rest σαββατισμὸς (sabbatismos) Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular Strong's Greek 4520: A keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest. From a derivative of sabbaton; a 'sabbatism', i.e. the repose of Christianity. for the τῷ (tō) Article - Dative Masculine Singular Strong's Greek 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the. people λαῷ (laō) Noun - Dative Masculine Singular Strong's Greek 2992: Apparently a primary word; a people. of God. Θεοῦ (Theou) Noun - Genitive Masculine Singular Strong's Greek 2316: A deity, especially the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very.

STRONGS CONCORDENCE
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest Definition: a sabbath rest Usage (DOING): a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

BDAG
σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ (σαββατίζω; Plut., Mor. 166a cj.; Just., D. 23, 3) sabbath rest, sabbath observance fig. Hb 4:9 a special period of rest for God’s people modeled after the traditional sabbath (CBarrett, CHDodd Festschr. ’56, 371f [eschat.]).—S. on κατάπαυσις HWeiss, CBQ 58, ’96, 674–89. M-M. TW.

ENGLISHMAN'S CONCORDANCE
Hebrews 4:9 N-NMS GRK: ἄρα ἀπολείπεται σαββατισμὸς τῷ λαῷ NAS: there remains a Sabbath rest for the people KJV: therefore a rest to the people INT: Then remains a sabbath rest to the people

HEBREWS 4:9 [9], SO THEN IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

God bless

 

[eleos1954]

That is not the wording of the verse...

"There remains a sabbath rest for the people of God...

Hebrews 4:9
Hebrews 4:9 Greek Text Analysis


Strong's Greek: 4520. σαββατισμός (sabbatismos) -- a sabbath rest

Word Origin
from a derivation of sabbaton

Strong's Greek: 4521. σάββατον (sabbaton) -- the Sabbath, i.e. the seventh day (of the week)

sabbaton: the Sabbath, i.e. the seventh day (of the week)
Original Word: σάββατον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: sabbaton
Phonetic Spelling: (sab'-bat-on)
Definition: the Sabbath, the seventh day (of the week)

Word Origin
of Hebrew origin shabbath

Exodus 20:8
HEB: אֶת־ י֥֨וֹם הַשַּׁבָּ֖֜ת לְקַדְּשֽׁ֗וֹ
NAS: Remember the sabbath day,
KJV: Remember the sabbath day,
INT: Remember day the sabbath to keep

 

[pasifika]

Hi All,

This thread is for scripture only. We would like to show that based on the scriptures alone the "LORD'S DAY" that many proclaim is SUNDAY is a false teaching and you will not find this in God's WORD.

Let's start by looking at your scriptures that many use to claim SUNDAY is the "LORD'S DAY"

REVELATIONS 1:9-11 [9] I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. [10], I was in the Spirit on the LORD'S DAY, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, [11], Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What you see, write in a book, and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia; to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.

................

No doubt about it Revelations 1:10 clearly says that John was in the SPIRIT on the "LORD'S DAY"! NOW the only problem you have is the need to show scripture that says SUNDAY IS THE LORD'S DAY.

................

The challenge I am putting out there is if you believe Sunday is "the Lord's day" please prove that Sunday of the "first day of the week" is the Lord's day by scripture alone!

................

If you cannot find any scriptures to say that SUNDAY is the "LORD'S DAY" then you have a problem. Now let's look at the scriptures that give the answer to our question

Q. WHAT DAY IS THE "LORD'S DAY" ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE?
A. MATTHEW 12:8 [8], For THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY.

Which day is the Lord's Day? THE SABBATH DAY (MATTHEW 12:8; MARK 2:27-28)

God's WORD says that the SABBATH DAY IS THE LORD'S DAY!

There is NO scripture that says Sunday or the FIRST DAY of the week is the Lords Day. God's Word says the Lord's day is the Sabbath day. This is the day God rested on, he set apart and made a Holy day at the completion of the creation week and made a memorial for all mankind (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11). Jesus is the God of creation and he is the Lord of the Sabbath day (Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:27-28)

.............

Now friend's the SABBATH is the 4th Commandment of God's 10 Commandments and there is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says that God's 4th Commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY. The same as there is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says that SUNDAY is the LORD'S DAY.

John in the book of REVELATIONS 1:10 was in the SPIRIT on the SABBATH DAY not SUNDAY!

.............

HOW WAS THE LORD'S DAY CHANGED TO SUNDAY?

SUNDAY Worship is a teaching and tradition of men handed down by the Roman Catholic Church that has lead many to break and ignore God's 4th Commandment (Exodus 20:8-11)

.............

ARE YOU UNKNOWINGLY FOLLOWING A MAN MADE TRADITION IN SUNDAY WORSHIP?

God's WORD is very clear. If we follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God then we are not following God...

MATTHEW 15:3-9
[3], But he answered and said to them, WHY DO YOU ALSO TRANSGRESS THE COMMANDMENT OF GOD BY YOUR TRADITION?
[4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
[5], But you say, Whoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatever you might be profited by me;
[6], And honor not his father or his mother, he shall be free. THUS HAVE YOU MADE THE COMMANDMENT OF GOD OF NONE EFFECT BY YOUR TRADITION.
[7], YOU HYPOCRITES, WELL DID ESAIAS PROPHESY OF YOU, SAYING,
[8], THIS PEOPLE DRAWS NEAR TO ME WITH THEIR MOUTH, AND HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS; BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR FROM ME.
[9], BUT IN VAIN THEY DO WORSHIP ME, TEACHING FOR DOCTRINES THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN.

Who do we believe and follow? The teachings and traditions of men or the WORD of God? Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

.................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

In times of ignorance God winks at but when as knowledge of the truth has come God calls on all men everywhere to repent and believe his Word (Acts 17:30-31)

God's is calling his people to come out from following the traditions of men to worship him in Spirit and in truth.

..................

God knows many follow these traditions from ignorance because they do not know any better. He loves all and is calling all who have ears to hear and eyes to see. Seek him in prayer asking for his Spirit to guide and teach you. He promises to be your guide and teacher. (John 14:26; 16:13: 7:17)

(FRIENDLY DICUSSION PLEASE)

Hello, Revelation 1:10 is not referring to either Sunday or Saturday...the Lords Day is the Day of His second coming...that Day has Not yet come...

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Your point was not proven. It was dismissed with MATTHEW 12:8

MATTHEW 12:8 [8], FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY

Irrelevant. I don't see any mention of Saturday, nor any synonym of it.

In the Hebrew and the Greek they did not use the same names of the days that we have today.

That's a half-truth. Not only did they not use the same names, they didn't even number them by the same method. A lunar calendar is asynchronous to a solar one, so the seventh day of the lunar week has no synonymous solar week equivalent.

They simply used God's names which were (in our days); day 1 (Sunday), day 2, (Monday), day 3 (Tuesday), day 4 (Wednesday), day 5 (Thursday), day 6 prepration before the Sabbath (Friday) and Sabbath (day 7).

It doesn't work like that. A lunar week is 7.38 days long. What? Yeah. Line up an even 7-day solar week against a 7.38-day lunar week, and the first day of one does not always coincide with the first day of the other. The name of the sabbath day in the Hebrew lunar week has no solar week equivalent. There is no synonymy. Saturday is not a Roman translation of the Hebrew lunar seventh day.