Why the Left Think They are Better by Peter Hitchens

[Peter J Barban]

Former Leftist, Peter Hitchens explains how the Left thinks about morality and why it is difficult to debate with them in this short video.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Former Leftist, Peter Hitchens explains how the Left thinks about morality and why it is difficult to debate with them in this short video.

"Think" they are better? They know they are better! Even when you prove them wrong, they refuse to change.

 

[disciple Clint]

"Think" they are better? They know they are better! Even when you prove them wrong, they refuse to change.

You left out the fact that when you prove they are wrong they immediately insult you because it is your fault that they are wrong.

 

[Evan Jellicoe]

The following could be directed at many on the Left, and justly so. However, Jesus directed it at those who professed to be believers in God. That would be Christians today. How do we measure up?

And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
[Luke 18:9-14]

 

[muichimotsu]

Seems he's doing the very thing he accuses the left of doing, just in reverse, appealing to conviction in some higher law so that he can justify his positions and hold them intransigently while acting like merely because he's more civil that he's in the right instead of actually having the intellectual humility and honesty to consider that a position held absolutely is one held dogmatically more often than not, especially when you polarize and ignore finding common ground and only emphasize the bad traits in order to make yourself look better by comparison.

And it's not a left or right thing, I've never seen it that way, it's ideological bents that are more about appealing to a particular source for authority and power, one side tending to go with emotional appeal and the other to pure authority or duty as if you can sever emotions entirely from the discussion. Why is it somehow a bad idea to take a middle ground here?

 

[Landon Caeli]

I was once around people who would refer to me as a "bootlicker" if I dared support Donald Trump or any policy Trump supported. This was long after Hillary Clinton called Trump supporters a "basket of deplorbles".

...It's de-humanization. I'm very leery of anyone who dehumanizes others.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Is this thread going to get shut down for flaming, too?

 

[Tom 1]

Former Leftist, Peter Hitchens explains how the Left thinks about morality and why it is difficult to debate with them in this short video.

Lol how is this any less applicable to any group? He criticises what he calls 'the left' for generalising by generalising. Plenty of examples from threads on this forum of people of the opposite persuasion stubbornly refusing to even consider reading something they automatically don't agree with.

 

[Strathos]

Didn't we just have this thread?

 

[Landon Caeli]

Lol how is this any less applicable to any group? He criticises what he calls 'the left' for generalising by generalising. Plenty of examples from threads on this forum of people of the opposite persuasion stubbornly refusing to even consider reading something they automatically don't agree with.

I don't think it was generalizing that he had a problem with, but "recoiling like a sorted snail", in that liberals seem to find conservativism inherently immoral.

 

[A_Thinker]

...It's de-humanization. I'm very leery of anyone who dehumanizes others.

Like when Trump refers to people as "scum" ???

 

[Landon Caeli]

Like when Trump refers to people as "scum" ???

Exactly. Dehumanization is always wrong.

 

[A_Thinker]

I don't think it was generalizing that he had a problem with, but "recoiling like a sorted snail", in that liberals seem to find conservativism inherently immoral.

As if the reverse isn't true (for some conservatives) ???

I think that the truth is that the vast majority of people concede the right their neighbors to adopt their own ethics, though there is a broad middle of views which we share.

It is only the extremes that feel the need to discount/dehumanize their neighbors.

Or those who have come to the end of their own viable arguments ...

 

[Peter J Barban]

Seems he's doing the very thing he accuses the left of doing, just in reverse, appealing to conviction in some higher law so that he can justify his positions and hold them intransigently while acting like merely because he's more civil that he's in the right instead of actually having the intellectual humility and honesty to consider that a position held absolutely is one held dogmatically more often than not, especially when you polarize and ignore finding common ground and only emphasize the bad traits in order to make yourself look better by comparison.

And it's not a left or right thing, I've never seen it that way, it's ideological bents that are more about appealing to a particular source for authority and power, one side tending to go with emotional appeal and the other to pure authority or duty as if you can sever emotions entirely from the discussion. Why is it somehow a bad idea to take a middle ground here?

Hitchens says he was a lefty and this is how he thought. It's his personal testimony.

 

[Silmarien]

Former Leftist, Peter Hitchens explains how the Left thinks about morality and why it is difficult to debate with them in this short video.

I think a couple things should be pointed out: he identifies as a former Trotskyist, so some of what he's talking about only applies within schools of Marxism. People on the right often use the words "liberal" and "leftist" interchangeably, but they're not, especially in Europe. Actual leftists do tend to be a lot more ideologically rigid and intolerant than liberals are, especially once they start identifying as Marxists.

He describes women being forced into the workplace as "wage slavery," which is the type of term that is deeply lodged in left wing thought, so if he is now a right winger, he is a bit of a strange one.

 

[Albion]

Lol how is this any less applicable to any group? He criticises what he calls 'the left' for generalising by generalising. Plenty of examples from threads on this forum of people of the opposite persuasion stubbornly refusing to even consider reading something they automatically don't agree with.

There actually is a difference, although we know that not every last person on either side can be categorized that way.

 

[Albion]

I think a couple things should be pointed out: he identifies as a former Trotskyist, so some of what he's talking about only applies within schools of Marxism. People on the right often use the words "liberal" and "leftist" interchangeably, but they're not, especially in Europe.

Don't you really think that this is because liberalism has become illiberal?

There are complaints if self-described socialists get called socialists, but AOC and Bernie Sanders, for example, surely aren't correctly described by the term liberal.

And it's no secret that "people on the left" have themselves attempted to replace the term in favor of "progressive."

 

[Tom 1]

I don't think it was generalizing that he had a problem with, but "recoiling like a sorted snail", in that liberals seem to find conservativism inherently immoral.

A Trotskyist might, others might also. I’ve exchanged posts with people on this site who don’t seem to grasp that political positions can be pragmatic, they are not emotional commitments for everyone as they are for some, neither are they absolutes and there are observable differences between how similar ideas are applied in different places. Denmark for example has a right wing, conservative, pro-business government which also adopts policies people would think of as socialist. The current conservative govt in the U.K. appears to strongly in favour of maintaining the NHS. Spain’s socialist government is pro-enterprise and entrepreneurship. The issue I sometimes have with conservatives is that their views, as expressed on this site anyway, don’t often match up with things that can be said to be observably real, like the frequently extreme and alarmist views on anything that might be thought of as socialist in some way - a concept that changes over time. That’s my experience anyway. The notion that conservatism is ‘evil’ or something of that sort has nothing to do with it. I think that idea largely only exists in the minds of some conservatives, for example labelling any criticism of Trump automatically as ‘hate’, or those who imagine that when anyone disagrees with their views or beliefs they are being ‘persecuted’ or that the other is ‘dishonest/fake’. These are things that seem to me to be utterly ridiculous, but as for people putting other people in absolute categories of evil that goes on across every spectrum of thought and belief.

 

[Silmarien]

Don't you really think that this is because liberalism has become illiberal? There are complaints of self-described Socialists are called Socialists, but AOC and Bernie Sanders, for example, surely aren't correctly described by the term liberal.

And it's no secret that "people on the left" have themselves attempted to replace the term in favor of "progressive."

Do I think liberalism has become illiberal? Not really. I have liberal friends and I have leftist friends. The liberals are still tolerant of differences of opinion; the leftists (and progressives) can often be another story.

AOC and Bernie Sanders are socialists and progressives. They are definitely not liberals. Liberalism vs. progressivism is a tricky issue--some people (myself included) see them as distinct groups, but I've also spoken to people who identify as progressives because they think a progressive is a liberal who is more of an activist.

 

[Peter J Barban]

I think a couple things should be pointed out: he identifies as a former Trotskyist, so some of what he's talking about only applies within schools of Marxism. People on the right often use the words "liberal" and "leftist" interchangeably, but they're not, especially in Europe. Actual leftists do tend to be a lot more ideologically rigid and intolerant than liberals are, especially once they start identifying as Marxists.

He describes women being forced into the workplace as "wage slavery," which is the type of term that is deeply lodged in left wing thought, so if he is now a right winger, he is a bit of a strange one.

Yes, I've heard that leftists hate liberals.