Why the King James Bible is Still the Best and Most Accurate

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,502
7,861
...
✟1,192,685.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
To all:

Now some people suggest that all English Bibles say the same thing and they all make up the Word of God. But this is simply not the case. Just compare Revelation 13:1 in the KJB vs. the NASB for starters. 1 John 5:7 (Which is a blessed and beautiful verse on teaching the Trinity) is removed in Modern Bibles. So people believe in the Trinity, and they have no way to truly back that up with the Bible because they prefer the corrupted Critical Text. But I can. I have a King James Bible. Run at the power of it. I have authority in standing behind the beautiful truths in God's Word. Do you?
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,502
7,861
...
✟1,192,685.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
To all:

But the real thing that rubs me the wrong way about those who do not have a perfect Word of God is this:

Who gets to decide what is true and what is false in the Bible?
How do you really know if no English translation is perfect and only the originals were perfect?
How do you know a dead language?

Surely looking at a Lexicon your whole life does not make you an expert in that language. You could be in grave error and not even know it. But with knowing a language that is close to your own (like the 1600's English), there is less room for error because we have old dictionaries, bible dictionaries, and the context of the Bible. I am not out to do my own thing and sort of have a close Word of God. I don't want to be partially under God's authority, but I want to be completely under His authority with a perfect Word that I can have a true assurance in knowing fully.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

BeingThere

Active Member
Dec 28, 2021
146
60
34
California
✟10,045.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
To all:

Now some people suggest that all English Bibles say the same thing and they all make up the Word of God. But this is simply not the case. Just compare Revelation 13:1 in the KJB vs. the NASB for starters. 1 John 5:7 (Which is a blessed and beautiful verse on teaching the Trinity) is removed in Modern Bibles. So people believe in the Trinity, and they have no way to truly back that up with the Bible because they prefer the corrupted Critical Text. But I can. I have a King James Bible. Run at the power of it. I have authority in standing behind the beautiful truths in God's Word. Do you?

Dear readers, if there be any new to this forum, the OP has been repeating talking points for several pages. Here is my response to this particular charge I made 10 pages ago:

As for Revelation 13:1: There is no Greek manuscript that actually says “dragon.” So they made it up. They put that into the translation. There is nowhere in the context of the Bible that would support this, either. That’s the problem with Modern Bibles. .

I appreciate your posts, and it is not my intention to get into a shooting match. I try to respond in pieces to make it easier to follow.

This is what the KJB says:

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
(Revelation 12:16, 17; 13:1, 2)

Notice how the dragon is present before during and after the beast's arrival. In some modern translations, the dragon is said to be standing on the seashore. This is likely for continuity, as the dragon is still present at the time of the beast's surfacing from the ocean. This is not the translators "inventing" the dragon. This is a nuance of translation: in order to make it more clear, some translators include words or sentences that they think clarifies the text. The King James translators did exactly the same thing. The devil had no part in it.
 
Upvote 0

BeingThere

Active Member
Dec 28, 2021
146
60
34
California
✟10,045.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Dear readers, here is a response to the charge about I John 5:7, and some critical commentary on the issue:

The following is regarding the verse of I John 5:7. Remember, scholarship attempts to determine the inspired writings of the original authors.

This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
(I John 5:6–8, KJV)​

6 This is he who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7 For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree.
(ESV)
Read the context, St. John is talking about three things, the Spirit, the water, and the blood. Here is a commentary on the issue of I John 5:7, from Barne's Notes on the Bible:

1 John 5 Barnes' Notes


I. It is missing in all the earlier Greek manuscripts, for it is found in no Greek manuscript written before the 16th century. Indeed, it is found in only two Greek manuscripts of any age ...

II. It is missing in the earliest versions, and, indeed, in a large part of the versions of the New Testament which have been made in all former times. It is wanting in both the Syriac versions - one of which was made probably in the first century; in the Coptic, Armenian, Slavonic, Ethiopic, and Arabic.

III. It is never quoted by the Greek fathers in their controversies on the doctrine of the Trinity ... If the passage were believed to be genuine - nay, if it were known at all to be in existence, and to have any probability in its favor - it is incredible that ... this passage should never have been referred to. But it never was; for it must be plain to anyone who examines the subject with an unbiassed mind, that the passages which are relied on to prove that it was quoted by Athanasius, Cyprian, Augustin, etc., (Wetstein, II., p. 725) are not taken from this place, and are not such as they would have made if they had been acquainted with this passage, and had designed to quote it.

IV. The argument against the passage from the external proof is confirmed by internal evidence, which makes it morally certain that it cannot be genuine.

(a) The connection does not demand it. It does not contribute to advance what the apostle is saying, but breaks the thread of his argument entirely. He is speaking of certain things which bear "witness" to the fact that Jesus is the Messiah; certain things which were well known to those to whom he was writing - the Spirit, and the water, and the blood. How does it contribute to strengthen the force of this to say that in heaven there are "three that bear witness" - three not before referred to, and having no connection with the matter under consideration?

(b) The "language" is not such as John would use. He does, indeed, elsewhere use the term "Logos," or "Word" - ὁ Λόγος ho Logos, John 1:1, John 1:14; 1 John 1:1, but it is never in this form, "The Father, and the Word;" that is, the terms "Father" and "Word" are never used by him, or by any of the other sacred writers, as correlative. The word "Son" - ὁ Υἱός ho Huios - is the term which is correlative to the "Father" in every other place as used by John, as well as by the other sacred writers. See 1 John 1:3; 1 John 2:22-24; 1 John 4:14; 2 John 1:3, 2 John 1:9; and the Gospel of John, "passim." Besides, the correlative of the term "Logos," or "Word," with John, is not "Father," but "God." See John 1:1. Compare Revelation 19:13.

(c) Without this passage, the sense of the argument is clear and appropriate ... To say that there are other witnesses elsewhere, to say that they are one, contributes nothing to illustrate the nature of the testimony of these three - the water, and the blood, and the Spirit; ...

V. It is easy to imagine how the passage found a place in the New Testament. It was at first written, perhaps, in the margin of some Latin manuscript, as expressing the belief of the writer of what was true in heaven, as well as on earth ... and then it became too important a passage in the argument for the Trinity, ... It was rendered into Greek, and inserted in one Greek manuscript of the 16th century, while it was missing in all the earlier manuscripts.

VI. The passage is now omitted in the best editions of the Greek Testament, and regarded as spurious by the ablest critics. See Griesbach and Hahn...

(1) even on the supposition that it is genuine, as Bengel believed it was, and as he believed that some Greek manuscript would still be found which would contain it , yet it is not wise to adduce it as a proof-text. It would be much easier to prove the doctrine of the Trinity from other texts, than to demonstrate the genuineness of this.

(2) it is not necessary as a proof-text. The doctrine which it contains can be abundantly established from other parts of the New Testament, by passages about which there can be no doubt.

(3) the removal of this text does nothing to weaken the evidence for the doctrine of the Trinity, or to modify that doctrine. As it was never used to shape the early belief of the Christian world on the subject, so its rejection, and its removal from the New Testament, will do nothing to modify that doctrine. The doctrine was embraced, and held, and successfully defended without it, and it can and will be so still.
 
Upvote 0

BeingThere

Active Member
Dec 28, 2021
146
60
34
California
✟10,045.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
There are two choices for the KJVO crowd:

  1. All Bible scholarship is unnecessary and evil: everyone must learn Greek and Hebrew
  2. Some Bible scholarship done 400 years ago is acceptable and perfect, but no longer: explain why the work on the KJV is perfect
If one must invent a position, defend it at all costs with manufactured half-truths, then that position should never have been taken in the first place. Our faith should be simpler.​
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,502
7,861
...
✟1,192,685.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Questions for the KJB Critics:

1. Since you’re smart enough to find “mistakes” in the KJB, why don’t you correct them all and give us a perfect Bible?

2. Do you have a perfect Bible?

3. Since you do believe “the Bible” is our final authority in all matters of faith and practice, could you please show us where Jesus, Peter, James, Paul, or John ever practiced your terminology (“the Greek text says…the Hebrew text says….the originals say…a better rendering would be….older manuscripts read….” etc.)?

4. Since you do not profess to have a perfect Bible, why do you refer to it as “God’s word”?

5. Remembering that the Holy Spirit is the greatest Teacher (John 16:12-15; I John 2:27), who taught you that the King James Bible was not infallible, the Holy Spirit or man?

6. Since you do believe in the degeneration of man and in the degeneration of the world system in general, why is it that you believe education has somehow “evolved” and that men are more qualified to translate God’s word today than in 1611?

7. There is one true God, yet many false gods. There is one true Church, consisting of true born-again believers in Christ, yet there are many false churches. So why do you think it’s so wrong to teach that there is one true Bible, yet many false “bibles”?

8. Isn’t it true that you believe God inspired His holy words in the “originals,” but has since lost them, since no one has a perfect Bible today? If it is true for you, this goes against Psalms 12:6-7, and Matthew 24:35.

9. What makes you think you are correct in defining words in biblical Hebrew and biblical Greek when chances are that you (or at least most Christians) don’t speak, write, or read these dead languages fluently? How can you have 100% certainty you are correct or the Lexicon is not being biased to the author’s own wrong beliefs?

10. Romans 10:17 says faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God. James 2:22 says works can perfect our faith. Works are merely our obeying the instructions in the Bible. But if our instructions are changed or effected in some way by an imperfect Bible, how can your faith be made perfect?

11. Do you often find yourself disregarding words in your English Bible in favor of a belief you prefer by going to the original languages?

12. How would you feel if people subtly changed words that you said? Now, imagine how God feels when others do the same with His Word.


Source used for numbers #1–#8.
Fighting Back! | True Vine Baptist Church
 
Upvote 0

BeingThere

Active Member
Dec 28, 2021
146
60
34
California
✟10,045.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
A perfect God, which we shall henceforth strive to understand in faith and humility, is not sought merely in the pages, but in truth and spirit:

17 So, I'm telling you this, and I insist on it in the Lord: you shouldn't live your life like the Gentiles anymore. They base their lives on pointless thinking, 18 and they are in the dark in their reasoning. They are disconnected from God's life because of their ignorance and their closed hearts... 20 But you didn't learn that sort of thing from Christ. 21 Since you really listened to him and you were taught how the truth is in Jesus, ... 23 Instead renew the thinking in your mind by the Spirit 24 and clothe yourself with the new person created according to God's image in justice and true holiness.
(Ephesians 4:17-24, CEB)

Has the Spirit said to anyone: the truth has been frozen in time, forever to age in a linguistic tomb? That is what is happening to the KJV, a beautiful, but time-bound document. The Gospel itself is timeless. The truth is in Jesus.
 
Upvote 0

BeingThere

Active Member
Dec 28, 2021
146
60
34
California
✟10,045.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Questions for the KJB Critics:

1. Since you’re smart enough to find “mistakes” in the KJB, why don’t you correct them all and give us a perfect Bible?

I am not trying to discredit the KJV, but defending the need for modern translations. I don't think the KJV's certain scholarly (not scriptural or doctrinal) inadequacies disqualify it as faithful to God's message. If you think the KJV is perfect, then prove it.

2. Do you have a perfect Bible?

I have a Gospel which was given to me by God-inspired men. This Gospel is not a mathematical formula arrived at by peculiar linguistic placement nor practiced by formulaic incantation. The Gospel is beyond words, though words can lead us there. Literary meaning is infinitely greater than the sum of words.

3. Since you do believe “the Bible” is our final authority in all matters of faith and practice, could you please show us where Jesus, Peter, James, Paul, or John ever practiced your terminology (“the Greek text says…the Hebrew text says….the originals say…a better rendering would be….older manuscripts read….” etc.

This is not my terminology, this is what scholars use to determine the facts. My (and their) ultimate goal is to follow what the Bible says, in a language most suitable to our culture. If we are always looking for a better way to say something, it should be because we already know what is meant and want to make it clearer for others to understand.

4. Since you do not profess to have a perfect Bible, why do you refer to it as “God’s word”?

God's word [his promise, his condescension, his son, his message] is perfect. Because we are clouded by fleshly thinking, we need words [as in language] to lead us to the water. I do not profess having a perfect Bible because I seek perfection beyond the mere written word; this does not hamper my faith in any way--I understand that human beings are errant, while God himself is perfect, as this is what all scripture says: the confirmation is in knowing [not reading].

5. Remembering that the Holy Spirit is the greatest Teacher (John 16:12-15; I John 2:27), who taught you that the King James Bible was not infallible, the Holy Spirit or man?

The spirit said nothing to me about the fallibility of one particular translation among hundreds. The spirit, instead, speaks about the truth of the gospel, defined not merely by the written word but by the meaning thereof. Who taught you that the KJV is the only translation that is God-breathed to fallible human beings?

6. Since you do believe in the degeneration of man and in the degeneration of the world system in general, why is it that you believe education has somehow “evolved” and that men are more qualified to translate God’s word today than in 1611?

Education has not evolved, our English language has. Mandating that all future generations learn the language and diction of an increasingly irrelevant English dialect is preposterous and inefficient. Men today are no more or less qualified to translate the Bible into our own time than the men of the 15th century were then. If you think a small minority of people today are qualified to prohibit all translations beyond the KJV of 4 centuries ago, you must explain why.

7. There is one true God, yet many false gods. There is one true Church, consisting of true born-again believers in Christ, yet there are many false churches. So why do you think it’s so wrong to teach that there is one true Bible, yet many false “bibles”?

You have not demonstrated that there is one true Bible. If the KJV is perfect, prove it. Rather, a logical human mind can reason that the Truth exists beyond the written word, in our broad and deep understanding of the message contained in scripture. This nuance does nothing to undermine faith in Christ, if that is what we are after. If, however, we are after a physical object to prove God's presence:

39 An evil and unfaithful [KJV reads "adulterous," but "unfaithful" is the true symbolic meaning and accurate to the manuscript] generation searches for a sign, but it won't receive any sign except Jonah's sign.
(Matthew 12:39)


8. Isn’t it true that you believe God inspired His holy words in the “originals,” but has since lost them, since no one has a perfect Bible today? If it is true for you, this goes against Psalms 12:6-7, and Matthew 24:35.

God inspired the Gospel, which bears witness to the gift of life, his son, to his people. His "word," [his promise, his message] remains in any translation which best speaks to us. The best translation of God's words is the one you will read.

9. What makes you think you are correct in defining words in biblical Hebrew and biblical Greek when chances are that you (or at least most Christians) don’t speak, write, or read these dead languages fluently? How can you have 100% certainty you are correct or the Lexicon is not being biased to the author’s own wrong beliefs?

  • I am certain you are oversimplifying here. There are thousands of comparative works, among other tools, which scholars use to come up with the correct meaning of ancient languages.

  • What makes you certain the KJV translators made all perfect decisions? Explain.

10. Romans 10:17 says faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God. James 2:22 says works can perfect our faith. Works are merely our obeying the instructions in the Bible. But if our instructions are changed or effected in some way by an imperfect Bible, how can your faith be made perfect?

Do you think the Word of God is limited to the words of the Bible? This is an error. The doctrines, story, gospel remain in agreement among all translations. If you think the KJV is perfect here, prove it.

11. Do you often find yourself disregarding words in your English Bible in favor of a belief you prefer by going to the original languages?

  • One cannot acquire different beliefs, different commandments, different doctrines, a different gospel by reading different translations.
  • If you always find yourself in complete agreement or thinking you know what God means any time you open your Bible, it means you do not understand what it is saying.
  • Words may change, but meaning does not. If I think a translation peculiar, I read another for clarification. No two translations are in contradiction. I pick up most often the one that speaks to me most effectively.

12. How would you feel if people subtly changed words that you said? Now, imagine how God feels when others do the same with His Word.

God gave us minds in order to understand the Bible. Those minds should be used to share the Bible in every language and dialect. The alternative is conscripting all the worlds people and forcing them to learn an increasingly obscure English dialect. Which is better for teaching all nations in the doctrine and commandments?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,502
7,861
...
✟1,192,685.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
To all:

We hear much talk these days about “older” and “more authoritative” manuscripts, but we aren’t hearing much about the origin of these manuscripts. It is a well established fact that there are only two lines of Bibles: one coming from Antioch, Syria (known as the Syrian or Byzantine type text), and one coming from Alexandria, Egypt (known as the Egyptian or Hesycnian type text). The Syrian text from Antioch is the Majority text from which our King James 1611 comes, and the Egyptian text is the minority text from which the new versions come. (Never mind Rome and her Western text, for she got her manuscripts from Alexandria.).

Egypt and Alexandria in the Bible is shown in a NEGATIVE light.

Egypt and Alexandria:

1. Egypt is first mentioned in connection with Abraham not trusting Egyptians around his wife (Gen. 12:10-13).

2. One of the greatest types of Christ in the Bible was sold into Egypt as a slave (Gen. 37:36).>

3. Joseph did not want his bones left in Egypt (Gen. 50:25).

4. God killed all the firstborn of Egypt (Exo. 12:12).

5. God calls Egypt “the house of bondage” (Exo. 20:4).

6. God calls Egypt an “iron furnace” (Deu. 4:20).

7. The Kings of Israel were even forbidden to get horses from Egypt (Deu. 17:16), so why should we look there for a Bible?

8. The Jews were forbidden to go to Egypt for help (Jer. 42:13-19).

9. God plans to punish Egypt (Jer. 46:25).

10. God calls His Son out of Egypt (Hos. 11:1; Mat. 2:15).

11. Egypt is placed in the same category as Sodom (Rev. 11:8).

12. The first time Alexandria is mentioned in the Bible, it is associated with unbelievers, persecution, and the eventual death of Stephen (Acts 6:9; 7:54-60).

13. The next mention of Alexandria involves a lost preacher who has to be set straight on his doctrine (Acts 18:24-26).

14. The last two times we read about Alexandria is in Acts 27:6 and Acts 28:11. Here we learn that Paul was carried to his eventual death in Rome by two ships from Alexandria.


Source used:
Fighting Back! | True Vine Baptist Church

Side Note:

One can confirm with Wikipedia that the Codex Vaticanus and the Codex Sinaiticus are of the Alexandrian text type.
 
Upvote 0

BeingThere

Active Member
Dec 28, 2021
146
60
34
California
✟10,045.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
For simplicity's sake, I have a suggestion:

Rather than stake our faith on the purity of human hands (translation), why don't we instead read the Bible and discover what faith is all about? Let's not take any person's word for it, but instead read the translations themselves and determine which feeds the spirit. Heeding the commandment of a few fundamentalist men is unbiblical.

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
(Ephesians 4:13, 14)

 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,502
7,861
...
✟1,192,685.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
To all:

The Bible versions issue is an important issue to say it lightly. From the beginning Satan has cast doubt on God’s Word – what He has stated – and it’s the epitome of gullibility to think the arch enemy of the LORD has ceased this activity. Remember how he added just one word to what God had said to the man and woman? And, that caused their fall? See Genesis 2:17; Genesis 3:4. Jesus says “Satan cometh immediately and taketh away the word.” (Mark 4:15) We are not to be “ignorant of his devices”and we learn that he continues to use the same exact tactics (2 Corinthians 2:11; 1 Corinthians 10:13).

Source:
4 Verse KJV Comparison - SafeGuardYourSoul
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,502
7,861
...
✟1,192,685.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
To all:

Just so that folks may know: I believe it is necessary to repeat some verses and or points in defense of the King James Bible because folks do not know just how serious this issue is.

1. Where did Matthew 17:21 go in your Modern Bible?
2. In your Modern Bible, why is Romans 8:1 chopped in half?
3. Why was the very blood of Christ removed from Colossians 1:14?
4. In 1 John 5:7, why was the clearest verse in all of God’s Word of the Triune Nature of the Godhead butchered or removed?


Source:
4 Verse KJV Comparison - SafeGuardYourSoul
 
Upvote 0

BeingThere

Active Member
Dec 28, 2021
146
60
34
California
✟10,045.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
For simplicity's sake, I have a suggestion:

Rather than stake our faith on the purity of human hands (translation), why don't we instead read the Bible and discover what faith is all about? Let's not take any person's word for it, but instead read the translations themselves and determine which feeds the spirit. Heeding the commandment of a few fundamentalist men is unbiblical.

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
(Ephesians 4:13, 14)

Which position requires the fabrication and maintenance of a narrative superficial to the Bible? KJV as God's Perfect Translation.

Which position requires we perpetuate a dying language [1600's English?]. The KJV-Only

Which position forsakes God-endowed reason and scientific fact? KJV-Only

What does the Bible say? It speaks of Christ, his commandments, his atonement.

Which translation teaches you these things? They all do, but the one you will read is the best translation of them all.

17 So, I'm telling you this, and I insist on it in the Lord: you shouldn't live your life like the Gentiles anymore. They base their lives on pointless thinking, 18 and they are in the dark in their reasoning. They are disconnected from God's life because of their ignorance and their closed hearts... 20 But you didn't learn that sort of thing from Christ. 21 Since you really listened to him and you were taught how the truth is in Jesus, ... 23 Instead renew the thinking in your mind by the Spirit 24 and clothe yourself with the new person created according to God's image in justice and true holiness.

(Ephesians 4:17-24, CEB)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

BeingThere

Active Member
Dec 28, 2021
146
60
34
California
✟10,045.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
In your Modern Bible, why is Romans 8:1 chopped in half?

This is the reason, and it is the same reason all such points are easily refutable:

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(Romans 8:1, KJV)

1 So now there isn't any condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
(Romans 8:1, CEB)
Other places the Bible tells us to "walk in the spirit":

16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
(Galatians 5:16, 25; KJV)


16 I say be guided by the Spirit and you won't carry out your selfish desires.
25 If we live by the Spirit, let's follow the Spirit.
(Galatians 5:16, 25; CEB)

As Christians, we should walk in the spirit: this fact is neither negated nor undermined by the modern translations. No doctrine, commandment, story or teaching is contradicted. If we prefer one translation over another, let us be content with it. If we think another translation more readable, let us forgive the minute differences as superfluous, which they are.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

BeingThere

Active Member
Dec 28, 2021
146
60
34
California
✟10,045.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
In 1 John 5:7, why was the clearest verse in all of God’s Word of the Triune Nature of the Godhead butchered or removed?

It was rather added spuriously by an unnamed scribe or scholar. Elsewhere in the Bible is the trinity outlined. This verse portion you speak of was not mentioned by any Church authority, nor do most Greek manuscripts speak of it.

I read the KJV, quote from it, and respect it. It does not contradict, nor is it contradicted by, any modern translation. Needing a physical "sign," people deify a book. Simple as that:

39 An evil and unfaithful generation searches for a sign, but it won't receive any sign except Jonah's sign.
(Matthew 12:39)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Strong in Him

Great is thy faithfulness
Site Supporter
Mar 4, 2005
27,861
7,970
NW England
✟1,050,238.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
So praise be unto the Lord Jesus Christ.
I am thankful I have a Word I can understand and completely trust.

Except for the bits you don't understand and have to use "corrupt" Bibles to clarify.

I, too, have the word of God and completely trust it.
 
Upvote 0

Strong in Him

Great is thy faithfulness
Site Supporter
Mar 4, 2005
27,861
7,970
NW England
✟1,050,238.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
s. 1 John 5:7 (Which is a blessed and beautiful verse on teaching the Trinity) is removed in Modern Bibles. So people believe in the Trinity, and they have no way to truly back that up with the Bible

How would anyone know about the Trinity if it were not in their Bible?
 
Upvote 0

SamInNi

God's Riches At Christ's Expense
Jan 4, 2022
121
105
Ireland
Visit site
✟29,040.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
I personally have been unable to find a single sound reason why any unbiased person would choose the 1769 KJV over the best translations produced in recent times. However, I do understand why those of a certain age (such as my 89-year-old uncle, a former elder in his church) prefer it over other translations in normal English.

And there are those who have been brought up in churches that exclusively use the KJV. Having the KJV imposed on them makes independent choice and unbiased analysis quite difficult. It’s frowned upon, to say the least.

The KJV certainly isn’t the most accurate translation out there. For example, it has been proved that in the Synoptic Gospels alone the New KJV is more accurate than the 1769 KJV. You can see the incontestable evidence for this here:

http://jesusiscreator.org/?p=45

A similar approach would show that the NASB and ESV, etc. are generally superior too.

Those who tell the world that the KJV is the best translation out there cannot get past the most fundamental of problems: our God-breathed scriptures are not in English, and never were in English. Various illogical spins are put on the facts and even history to get around this, but the truth remains that God did not use any form of the English language to give us the scriptures.

So, if for example you are German and don’t understand English, to read God’s Word you will need a Bible that translates into German the languages God originally chose (Hebrew, Aramaic and a form of ancient Greek). This most fundamental of misunderstandings leads to incongruous argumentation that can get a bit embarrassing.

When Samuel Gipp, a very vocal defender of the supposed supremacy of the KJV, went on TV and was asked, “So if a guy is in Russia and he really wants to get to the truth of the Word of God, would he have to learn English?” he replied, “Yes.”

Many fervent KJV supporters will try to tell you that it’s better to read 2nd Corinthians 6:11-13 in the KJV than in any of the “modern” translations. Really? “O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged. Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels. Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged.”

I’ve personally tried to cut the KJV a lot of slack, but I kept coming back to the same unavoidable conclusion: for the modern unbiased believer the KJV throws a veil over the clarity of the Scriptures. Not everywhere to the same degree, but in general. Key points of my conclusions are routinely disputed, but not at all convincingly:

Recently someone who wrote to me praised the "majesty" of the KJV text, suggesting perhaps that in some way its style offers an advantage over the "modern" versions. Maybe this view is to be expected among those who have fondly used the AV for decades or are under the leadership of those who will not teach from any other translation. But the believer's goal should always be accuracy and comprehensibility, not a personal fondness for a majestic form of English that's hundreds of years out of date. Surely it goes without saying that anything that makes Scripture harder to understand—that even slightly impairs clarity—cannot possibly be a good thing.

It can be demonstrated that the KJV's archaic language does make it harder to understand Scripture, even in the 1769 revision that everyone uses today. (This edition differs from the original 1611 version in over 75,000 details, often due to printing errors.) Awkward out-of-date phrases are undeniably unhelpful. For example: "purchase to themselves a good degree", "superfluity of naughtiness", "fruits meet for repentance", "the lively oracles", "devour widows' houses", "altogether on a smoke", "we do you to wit of the grace of God", "thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing", "they are lively, and are delivered ere the midwives come in unto them", "in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest", "clouted upon their feet", "the scall".

Those who regularly read the KJV will come across a large number of words that are no longer commonly used today, such as "cockatrice", "hoised", "cotes", "stomacher", "blains", "fanners", "scrabbled", "strawed", "froward", "sackbut", "wimples", "habergeon", "crookbackt", "cieled", "glistering", "suretiship", and so on.

No one can deny that the defunct language and style of the KJV clearly interfere with the clarity and readability of the text. We must wonder how that can ever be acceptable. It certainly isn't helpful. No heartfelt appeal to the alleged importance of grand and majestic language will entirely justify a dead mode of expression. But much worse than outdated language is a lack of accuracy in many places. Let's briefly examine some of these.

Historic errors that were made during textual transmission were unwittingly included in the original KJV translation and first printing, and remain to this day. In the Book of Revelation you will find examples of errors that have no support in any ancient Greek manuscript. "It remains a fact that a dozen or so readings in the KJV find no support in any Greek manuscript whatsoever. In the last few verses of Revelation, a half dozen such inventions occur. These can be traced directly to the fact that Erasmus had to prepare a Greek manuscript for these verses by translating back from the Vulgate" (D. A. Carson, The King James Version Debate).

In Revelation 16:5 the words "shalt be" are not supported by any Greek manuscript. In Acts 9:6 the words "and he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? and the Lord said unto him" do not exist in any manuscript. The passage at 1st John 5:7, 8 is found in only four late manuscripts, the earliest from the fourteenth century. (It's important to remember that Bible verses were set in place before the 1611 version was translated and are still in use today. In the muddled thinking of some this makes it appear that some words and verses have been "left out" or “deleted” in "modern" versions. But this is not the case.) In Matthew 23:24 the early printing error "strain at a gnat", which should read, "strain out a gnat", remains uncorrected in all KJV Bibles today.

While reading through the KJV you will come across renderings that can obscure the meaning or sense of the original language: "found mules" for the correct "found water", "God" for "judge", "fish" for "soul", "thou hast destroyed thyself" in place of the correct "he destroyed you", "the master and the scholar" in place of "aware and awake", "Abstain from all appearance of evil" rather than the more accurate "Abstain from every form of evil" (NKJV), "changed" rather than the more accurate "exchanged" (Romans 1:25), "to feed" for the more accurate "to shepherd", "such as should be saved" for "those who were being saved", "which is corrupt" for "which is being corrupted", "world" rather than "age", "Do violence to no man" for "Do not intimidate anyone", "a lover of good men" rather than the more accurate "a lover of what is good", "the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" rather than the accurate "our great God and Savour, Christ Jesus", "For in many things we offend all" for "For we all stumble in many ways", "for the errors of the people" rather than "for the sins of the people committed in ignorance", "every one that is joined unto them" for "anyone who is captured", "Thou shalt not kill" for "Do not murder", "Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?" for "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?", "churches" for "temples", "itself" rather than "Himself" in reference to the Holy Spirit in Romans 8:26.

Although it's possible to find questionable readings in all reputable formal translations—none claims to be perfect—I'm bound to ask, Does the 1611 King James Version have more than we should allow? When a believer opens a Bible it's his or her heart's desire to understand as clearly and directly as possible what God has said. In this context then, I'd take the view that it makes sense not to choose the KJV as a benchmark translation. This is especially true of those who are young or have recently accepted Christ as Saviour.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

tampasteve

Pray for peace in Israel
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Angels Team
CF Senior Ambassador
Site Supporter
May 15, 2017
25,359
7,327
Tampa
✟775,629.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I can equally say the same of Modern Scholarship or MBVO (Modern Bible Versions Only) or OAO (Original Autograph Only)
Are there really any "MBVO" people? I have never met anyone that is.

I have met plenty of people that prefer a "modern" version, but never to the point of saying the KJV is not to be used or un-inspired, as KJV-O will go to the length of. I have met and read compelling arguments as to why a more modern version using different text sets is more accurate, but again, not to the point of placing the "modern" version on a pedestal it is not intended to be on.
 
Upvote 0