Why the Copts are NOT Monophysites:

[minasoliman]

It seems that many so-called "Orthodox" do nothing but act like Pharisees to affirm their Antiochian terminology, without even realizing that they are Antiochians in terminology.

The temporary split between Cyril and John showed what can happen when both sides misunderstand one another. With confusion, the emperor had to punish them both. Here is an example where imperial politics never took sides.

The permanent split between Dioscorus and Leo resulted in Marcian and Theodoret supporting the Chalcedonian cause. Putting St. Dioscorus under house arrest, the council (and not all the bishops of the council) found it fitting to depose St. Dioscorus after an unexplained triple summons.

The faith of "one Incarnate nature" is the faith that was upheld by St. Cyril. John of Antioch confesses "of two natures" or "from two natures." Nestorius confessed "in two natures."

Now let's look at later history. Dioscorus confesses "one Nature" and later in Chalcedon argued to accept "of two natures." Eutyches confessed "one nature" but in a heretical manner. Flavian and Leo confessed "in two natures," a new terminology that was neither confessed by John nor Cyril. Yet, its terminology is still Antiochian, specifically fanatic Antiochian, or Nestorian.

Thus, here's where the confusion started. Flavian knowing exactly that Eutyches believes in a confusion "one nature" decided to go for a strict "in two natures." Dioscorus receiving a word from Eutyches that the heresy of Nestorius has been revived, while not knowing of Eutyches' shortcomings, had to defend the Cyrillian terminology against "supposed" Nestorians. The Council of Chalcedon, except the Nestorians who were "hailed" there, namely Theodoret and Ibas, had to defend a strict Antiochian theology against a supposed "Eutychian."

The following websites I offer as a defense on behalf of the OO's:

http://www.orthodoxunity.org/articles.html

http://www.metroplit-bishoy.org/files/Christology/siteseverus.doc
http://www.metroplit-bishoy.org/files/Christology/Christological%20Controversies.doc

http://www.metroplit-bishoy.org/files/lectures/lecture%201.doc
http://www.metroplit-bishoy.org/files/lectures/lecture%202.doc
http://www.metroplit-bishoy.org/files/lectures/lecture%203.doc
http://www.metroplit-bishoy.org/files/lectures/Lecture%204.doc

http://www.metroplit-bishoy.org/files/Dialogues/Byzantine/CHRSTAGR.doc
http://www.metroplit-bishoy.org/files/Dialogues/Byzantine/CYRIL2.DOC

I believe this is enough for now. Notice, I do not condemn the Byzantines of Nestorianism, but I present objective facts as they were. The fact of the matter is that both the Chalcedonian and non-Chalcedonian fathers were either ignorant or misunderstanding.

God bless.

 

[CopticGirl]

Great post Mina.

I really start to get frustrated when these people are telling me what I believe.

And I'm starting to think one or two of them are posting these statements such as "Monophysite Pope Shenouda III" on a forum where we cannot debate, just to get us worked up.

I'm really proud of your persistance, Mina.

God Bless you.

 

[Yeznik]

In the Armenian Liturgy the deacons proclaim, " Yev yevus khaghaghootyamp uzDer aghachestook" which means - " In peace let us beseech the Lord ". So don't get frustrated about peoples opinions. Its not the first time Churches have been misinterpreted its not the last. Stand firm in the Faith of our ancestors, and remember that Salvation comes from Grace.

 

[sin_vladimirov]

It is a sad, sad division. I read the other day about fratricide that EO have commited on OO and I am so unhappy because of this.

I am new to the faith and especialy to the Theology and History behind the Ecumenical councils but reading whatever I could find on the internet about this it amazes me how stupid and narrow minded people can be.

I was so touched by sacrifice of the Coptic Christians that is continuing to these days. Moved by Armenian History, it is the oldest Christian state. So impressed by steadfast keeping of the faith by all other Orthodox Churches of three Ecumenical Councils.

There is so much power. So much beauty.

God bless you all...

Forgive the sinns of the fathers, to their sons.

in ICXC
Stefan+



Lord have mercy.

 

[Yeznik]

It is a sad, sad division. I read the other day about fratricide that EO have commited on OO and I am so unhappy because of this.

I am new to the faith and especialy to the Theology and History behind the Ecumenical councils but reading whatever I could find on the internet about this it amazes me how stupid and narrow minded people can be.

I was so touched by sacrifice of the Coptic Christians that is continuing to these days. Moved by Armenian History, it is the oldest Christian state. So impressed by steadfast keeping of the faith by all other Orthodox Churches of three Ecumenical Councils.

There is so much power. So much beauty.

God bless you all...

Forgive the sinns of the fathers, to their sons.

in ICXC
Stefan+



Lord have mercy.

Thank you for your post, may we all try to do God's Will.

 

[erinipassi]

Thank you Mina for taking the time to post this thread. Its incredibly hurtful to know that some Eastern Orthodox are mis-representing our beliefs in a public forum and we are not even allowed to clarify this mis-representation. I was very hurt by the actions that was taken when they deleted my post when I tried to clarify the Coptic Orthodox beliefs. When we dont get the chance to clarify our position in a public forum, what this means is that not only are they allowing this incorrect information to spread, but for prejudices to grow unchecked against the Coptic Orthodox.

I want to stress what a great love I have for my Easter Orthodox brothers and Sisters, but that I am still trying to recover from the really hurtful comments that was posted in the Eastern Orthodox Forum calling the Oriental Orthodox as "Heretical" and have "pagan practices".

I would like to take this chance to clarify our position and hope to get the chance to do it.

Some Eastern Orthodox believe that the Coptic Orthodox Church are Monophysites and this is incorrect. The doctrine of Monophysites believe that “Jesus was not human, but exclusively divine, and God himself, therefore he could not have died.” And this doctrine is incorrect.



The book called the nature of Christ by His Holiness Pope Shenouda the third, he makes it clear what we believe and I would like to post an extract:



“The Divine nature (God the Word) was united with the human nature which He took of the Virgin Mary by the action of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit purified and sanctified the Virgin’s womb so that the Child to whom she gave birth would inherit nothing of the original sin; the flesh formed of her blood was united with the Only-Begotten Son. This Unity took place from the first moment of the Holy Pregnancy in the Virgin’s womb. As a result of the unity of both natures-the Divine and the human-inside the Virgin’s womb, one nature was formed out of both: "The One Nature of God the Incarnate Logos" as St. Cyril called it.”



“……the point of discussion was St. Cyril’s expression "One Nature of God the Incarnate Logos" (Mia Physis Tou Theou Logou Sesarkwmene).



The expression "One Nature" does not indicate the Divine nature alone nor the human nature alone, but it indicates the unity of both natures into One Nature which is "The Nature of the Incarnate Logos". The same applies when we speak about our human nature which comprises two united natures: the soul and the body. Thus, man’s nature is not the soul alone nor the body alone, but their union in one nature called human nature. We will discuss this point in detail later on. St. Cyril the Great taught us not to talk about two natures after their unity.



So we can say that the Divine nature united hypostatically with the human nature within the Virgin’s womb, but after this unity we do not ever speak again about two natures of Christ. In fact, the expression "two natures" implies in itself division or separation, and although those who believe in "the two natures" admit unity, the tone of separation was obvious in the Council of Chalcedon - a matter which prompted us to reject the Council and caused the exile of St. Dioscorus of Alexandria.”



That is why we call ourselves Miaphysite from the words of St Cyril that says "One Nature of God the Incarnate Logos" (Mia Physis Tou Theou Logou Sesarkwmene).

This One nature refers to the Devine and the Human nature that coexists together.
Now in regards to tattoing, the Coptic Orthodox Church discourages anyone from getting a tattoo that is not a cross. So if you went to get a tattoo of a rose, that is considered placing unneccesary mark on the temple of God, our body. But if you are placing a cross on your hand, its not only proclaiming your faith, but the sign of the cross is holy and can only bring blessing to your body. Its the same as wearing a cross, why do people wear the necklace of the Cross??? Even more, why look down on the Coptics who tattoo a cross, yet many people wear earing in their ears and its ok?

I believe its an unfair remark to say that the Coptic Orthodox is "Heretical" when the Coptic Orthodox Church has contributed so much to the Orthodox faith. For example, the Creed, the Easter date calculations, iconography, Monastacism and many more.

It is also unfair, to label Coptic Orthodox Church with pagan practices in regards of tattoing of the cross without first asking a coptic person why it is done.

I’ve posted this for the sake of clarification of the doctrines in Coptic Orthodox Church. And again I want to stress, how much the Eastern Orthodox are our much loved brothers and sisters in Christ. May God have mercy on us all and have mercy on me a sinner.



Blessings and love

erini

 

[domi]

what's a Monophysite?

 

[CopticGirl]

Domi,

If you read erini's post above yours it gives a great explaination, but I'll give another brief one here.

So basically, we all know that Jesus is God--he is a divine being, right?
We also know that Jesus came down to earth and was human. He had human needs, desires, emotions--all that.

So Jesus was fully Divine and fully human. And these are both natures--a divine nature and a human nature.

As Coptic Orthodox Christians, we believe that his Human nature and his Divine nature are combined into one being. So just as I am one person, there are two parts of me. I have a body and I have a soul, and together they make me--Elizabeth. It's the same way with Jesus, he has his divinity and his humanity to make one being. This belief that Jesus Christ is one combined nature is called Miaphysite, and that is what we are.

Now, as for Monophysites, it originated in the 5th century when a man named Euchytes started to teach that Jesus Christ's humanity dissolved in his Divinity and he was only divine--therefore having only one nature. Mono=one and therefore monophysite. Now clearly this is wrong. We all know that it is a historical fact that Jesus Christ was a living, breathing human being. During this time, we were wrongly accused of being Monophysites and following this man's teachings, when in fact we excommunicated him from the church.

Soooooo, to sum it up:

1) We believe Christ has one combined nature. He is fully human and fully divine.
2) This believe is called Miaphysitism.
3) Usually when people call us Monophysites they mean it as an insult and accuse us of being heretics.

I hope this makes sense. Ask any questions you like!

God Bless,
Elizabeth

 

[domi]

ooo so a mono whatever means that chirst was divine not human...that makes sence. Thanks Elizibeath. Yah tha't snot right. GOD that's ANOYING! I seeeee the agrvation...AHHH GOD!...right chill...hehehe. Thankies

 

[Xpycoctomos]

Great OP. Thanks for that!

One problem I have.

It seems that many so-called "Orthodox" do nothing but act like Pharisees to affirm their Antiochian terminology, without even realizing that they are Antiochians in terminology.

I think this is uncharitable. Look, there are Orthodox who TRULY understand your beelief this way. They simply see things another way. Not because they dont want to believe you (at least I haven't come across any in TAW who are like that) but because their consciences and indepth study (which cannot be done in CF) has lead them to no other conclusion. What I mean is that their intentions are (form my POV) are good, holy and admirable, even if you don't agree with their conclusions (and I am often in agreement with you guys on this subject, that you are NOT monophysites.. at least not in the heretical way the term has been defined, but that's beside the point).

So please, don't throw around the term "pharisee" to insult others. It's unfair, inaccurate and only causes more room for misunderstanding and hardened hearts.

John

 

[CopticGirl]

John,

The issue I have is not the fact that some disagree with our description of the nature of Christ. I understand that not everyone is going to agree on these topics.

My issue is where we explain to someone numerous times that we are not Monophysites, yet Miaphysites. Nerevertheless that one person continues to refer to us as "monophysite Coptic Christians" and our Pope as "Monophysite Pope Shenouda". Now clearly this person has had conversations with myself and others and knows that we don't agree with or like the use of the term monophysite here.

I mean it appears to me that he is clearly making snide remarks, (that he knows will upset us) on a forum where we cannot even defend ourselves or clarify our position or beliefs! That just isn't right.

I mean we are not starting topics here calling you guys polyphysites.

We are brothers and sisters in Christ. Eastern Orthodox Christians are the closer to us than any other Christians. I just don't see how this one topic can all of a sudden turn us into heretics. Look at our history, we are a blessed Church. There are so many miracles that occur in our church and through our Coptic Orthodox Saints. I mean St. Mary appeared above one of our churches for 3 years straight, or study about H.H. Pope Kyrillos VI, and all the documented miracles that he performed in his life and continues to perform.

We are not heretics.

God Bless,
Elizabeth

 

[Yeznik]

Great OP. Thanks for that!

One problem I have.



I think this is uncharitable. Look, there are Orthodox who TRULY understand your beelief this way. They simply see things another way. Not because they dont want to believe you (at least I haven't come across any in TAW who are like that) but because their consciences and indepth study (which cannot be done in CF) has lead them to no other conclusion. What I mean is that their intentions are (form my POV) are good, holy and admirable, even if you don't agree with their conclusions (and I am often in agreement with you guys on this subject, that you are NOT monophysites.. at least not in the heretical way the term has been defined, but that's beside the point).

So please, don't throw around the term "pharisee" to insult others. It's unfair, inaccurate and only causes more room for misunderstanding and hardened hearts.

John

John, thanks for the post, as I have said in other posts, most people who have done the study based on a baised basis (western historians). I have done an in depth study, and consulted with priests and bishops regarding the issue. All the facts the west has are inconsistent from all the facts the east has ( I am speaking specifically about the Armenian Church, unfortunately I haven't done an in depth study on my Sister Churches, my apologies to them).

Now here is a question I want you guys to think about. I want you to look at all the people who attend our Churches, both EO and OO. I want you to look and all the kids, parents, and grand parents. Now, do all these people in Church know what a monophysite or a diophysite? Do people really understand the doctrine and theology of Communion when they are taking it? Think about it.

 

[erinipassi]

Hi Yeznik and Xpycoctomos,



To Yeznik:

Please forgive me, I’m not clear about the point you are trying to make. But if your point was, since most children enjoy the faith, without understanding the details of the faith and could form good relations with other churches because of their lack of knowledge, then my response is: If you had a parent or a priest who is teaching you that anyone who is Eastern Orthodox is heretical, then it will damage future relations with the Eastern Orthodox Church. Likewise, if Eastern Orthodox people are teaching each other that Oriental Orthodox are heretical then it will damage future relations with Oriental Orthodox people.



What’s even worse the word “heretical” is thrown at the Oriental Church because some people in the Eastern Orthodox haven’t studied in detail what Monophysitism is about. If they have studied it well, they would never say that about the Oriental Orthodox Church. Just like we would never degrade the Eastern Orthodox Church by labeling them heretical or have pagan practices because they are diophysite and have what appears on the outside teachings similar to Nestorianism.

What I mean is that their intentions are (form my POV) are good, holy and admirable, even if you don't agree with their conclusions (and I am often in agreement with you guys on this subject, that you are NOT monophysites.. at least not in the heretical way the term has been defined, but that's beside the point).

So please, don't throw around the term "pharisee" to insult others. It's unfair, inaccurate and only causes more room for misunderstanding and hardened hearts.

John

To Xpycoctomos (John):

The term used by Mina when he said “act like the Pharisee”, is about how a Pharisee thinks. A Pharisee thinks that they have understood everything and no one can communicate or explain anything to them because they already have the “correct” understanding about everything in their opinion. To truly understand anything, you must read well the subject in great detail and look beyond the biases. I ask you John, was it very fair and “holy” when they labeled Oriental Orthodox people as heretical and have pagan practices in the thread called “Coptic Tattoos” in the EO forum? Was it very fair and holy when they said that because the Oriental Orthodox are heretical, efforts of unity should not resume? Was it very fair or holy when they didn’t allow the Coptic Orthodox to clarify their position??? What do you think we felt when they said that? It hurt us beyond any words to see this coming from our dearly loved brothers and sisters. Jesus says, “Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.” (Matthew 25: 40) May we not wound each other like this, because when we hurt each other, we are hurting the heart of Jesus. In Jesus’ eyes we are all his precious Children, whether we are Eastern Orthodox, Oriental, Catholic or protestant.



Please forgive me Yeznik and John, I know my weaknesses are great and the sins of my tongue are many, but I have not recovered from the hurt yet. Please pray for me a sinner and I pray that God may bring understanding, wisdom, the spirit of discernment, His peace and love to all our hearts.



Love and blessings

erini

 

[minasoliman]

Dear John,

Forgive me if that was insulting. If you want, I will edit it.

The problem is that I've tried to talk with someone by PM and to have a conversation with him. While he spends a HUGE amount of time in TAW, he (or she) tells me that "I have no time for this." Someone who acts as a charitable and true Orthodox in public, who mentions that "he (or she) has had discussions with these type of people before" tells me that he has no time. I thought a true Christian would try to refute my arguments in order to hit me with some "truth" that he learned.

This is why I feel that many (and I did not say all...for I PRAISE so many Orthodox who are not Oriental, such as Fr. John Romanides-who with Fr. VC Samuel are my heros in theology, and I wish after the union, hopefully, that a church will be built under BOTH their names-and Fr. Peter Gillquist, who inspires me to evangelize to non-Orthodox) act like Pharisees.

I've had a discussion once with a Copt DEFENDING Leo, something that Copts do not like to do if you know what I mean. I don't even think the Church hereirchs like to do that much either. But I am not afraid of the truth. I love my Coptic Church, but I've also come to understand we misunderstood your fathers as well.

Pray for me.

Mina

 

[minasoliman]

And plus, if I may John,

What doesn't make sense in this website is the "debating" issue. You can ask questions, but you can't debate. And I did hear that they used to have the Copts and Oriental Orthodox under the same thread as the Eastern Orthodox, and because of some "scholars," the forum has been split, and we are not allowed to debate with one another again.

Suppose I start a debate about how Nestorian your Church is or was. And then you try to clarify your Church, but rather, I complain to admins that you are "debating" in the thread, so your parts are deleted/editted. I mean it's just RIDICULOUS that you can't debate in the same place. While you guys call us Monophysite, we may continue to call you Nestorian here, and instead of a debate, we end up talking against each other without really talking to each other. It's like those verbal fights where rather than insulting the person in front of you, you talk to the person next to him to tell "his friend" the insults.

This website really has a problem. I hope this message is not deleted though. Sigh.

What I wish and pray to see for once is an EO defending us, but that I don't even see. Sometimes, when I defend you and your fathers, I feel I am doing so in vain, especially in the things I read here.

Pray for me. I have sinned.

Mina

 

[Xpycoctomos]

Well, Im not holy enough to judge, but I miss where you've "sinned". Point taken from many of you about the "Pharisee" comment. I have not once entered the Tatoo thread because.... well, qite frankly anything aobut Oriental Orthodox tends to turn into a divisive debate and the tatoo part sounded boring and uninteresting so.. it's still bolded orange on my screen.

I do see what you are saying however. While I beleive it is any Orthodox's right to believe that the Oriental Orthodox are in heresy (a belief I have not been convinced of, to the frustration of some of my brethern.... but I wouldn't even say most), there is a way to go about expressing this, and the intention (which I really cannot judge) must be pure. I have had their position explained to me which seems logical and uses primary texts, but I have equally seen OO arguments (or pro-OO arguments from EOs) that seem logical with primary texts and do a slightly better job at convincing me. But as I said, disagreement should be done with a fair and open mind and most of all with Charity at only seeking Truth (not to win an argument) and it seems to me that, in my past experience in threads regarding this controversy (the very ones that lead up to the creation of this very forum some months ago) most were debating from a very sincere and and educated POV (however biased it may have been... but we're all biased I suppose). But, there were certainly others who went below the belt and refused to listen to your side of the story. That made me very upset and embarrased.

I will admit that the circumstances under which this forum was created (which it seemed very obvious to me that it was a mutual decision, if I may add) were very unfortunate and sad. But, I think it is better this way. The fact is, while I tend to think that we are separated by politics rather than important theological virtues, the 7 ecumenical councils are tenets of our faith. They are not of yours and there has been no official statement from your Church saying that they can accept them, in fact there are problems that your Church has with ours. the fact is, while mystically I believe it is probable that we are indeed one body separated by earthly misunderstandings... we are none the less separated. the fact of the matter is that, being together with the EOs in TAW was a definite disadvantage to you guys. We always held the upperhand (by issue of sheer numbers) and although your POV was to be equally welcomed in TAW, I think those who were here in those days can attest to the fact that this was rarely so. Should we come into communion one day again (which I definitely think there is hope for, even if the event may be distant) there will have been serious obstacles for both of our bishops to overcome. While I am partial to the theory that thre is no important difference between miaphysites and us, I am not fully convinced only because I trust in my bishops wisdom more than my own from having read a few intriguing articles on both sides.

But I fervently pray that we are one again and this prayer is aided and rejuvenated by my own personal beliefs that the chasm which lies between us is not so great as that which may lie between us and the Vatican Catholic Church (a faithful flock I love and respect dearly).

That was long winded.

In the end, I don't (now) blame you for your frustration. TAW can certainly learn a few lessons in humility, but please understand that not all who disagree with you do so simply because they have not taken an honest look at what you have to say. (I mean, I know you "know" you're right which I think is fine, but I also "know" that Orthodox practices are good and correct and is easily seen if you just take an open look at the information that's available, but for some reason, sincere and loving protestants in my life just do not agree with me, even after having taken a sincere look at the info. I can only trust that they are acting out of pure motives and telling the truth. I can't understand how they can't come to my same conclusion... but I'm not them then. Do you see my comparison? Wow.. that was a very long parenthetical!)

God bless all of you and may we continually pray for unity... I truly believe this can be achieved!

John

 

[domi]

MAny problms i have let me put them in bold for u lol...

Great OP. Thanks for that!

One problem I have.



I think this is uncharitable. Look, there are Orthodox who TRULY understand your beelief this way. They simply see things another way. Not because they dont want to believe you (at least I haven't come across any in TAW who are like that) but because their consciences and indepth study (which cannot be done in CF) has lead them to no other conclusion. What I mean is that their intentions are (form my POV) are good, holy and admirable, even if you don't agree with their conclusions (and I am often in agreement with you guys on this subject, that you are NOT monophysites.. at least not in the heretical way the term has been defined, but that's beside the point).

So please, don't throw around the term "pharisee" to insult others. It's unfair, inaccurate and only causes more room for misunderstanding and hardened hearts.

John

All of those words cuz misundersatnds lolll and i dunn know what the heretical form of monophysites is lol....somebody help me lol

 

[Xpycoctomos]

OP- Original Post (the one that started this thread)

TAW- The Ancient Way (The Eastern Orthodox Forum)

CF = Christian Forums (this website)

Pharisee = biblical type. Back track the posts a little and there is an explanation for what is meant by ths word when it was used in the "OP"

POV = POint of View

intentions = the actual purpose or motive behind an action (did the person do this or that out of greedy intentions or good and pure intentions)... kind of like the state of mind one was in when they decided to do such and such an action.

hretical definition f monophysite: The word literally means "one nature" so TECHNICALLY Oriental Orthodox are monophysite...BUT, NOT in the way that the term is originally meant to be used. The term monophysite was used to describe those who thought either Jesus was JUST a man (having only ONE nature- the human one) or JUST God but not really man (having only ONE nature- the divine one). This in no way describes what Coptics believe so it is incorrect to call them monophysites since they would just as emphatically denounce the above beleifs as we would. They (you) beleive that Christ has ONE nature.... BUT it is a kind of God-man nature... He is both GOD and MAN (neither one is denied) and the Oriental Orthodox describe this as one nature for in this mindset it seems (or at least seemed so at the time, probably with good reason for their own culture) dangerous to split them up into two nautures and risk making a kind of schitzophrenic Jesus. Anyhow, Someone here will corrrect my mistakes and fill in the blanks.

John

 

[Rilian]

What doesn't make sense in this website is the "debating" issue. You can ask questions, but you can't debate. And I did hear that they used to have the Copts and Oriental Orthodox under the same thread as the Eastern Orthodox, and because of some "scholars," the forum has been split, and we are not allowed to debate with one another again.

There was friction on both sides unfortunately. I liked having us as one forum, I was sad to see it split.

 

[domi]

OP- Original Post (the one that started this thread)

TAW- The Ancient Way (The Eastern Orthodox Forum)

CF = Christian Forums (this website)

Pharisee = biblical type. Back track the posts a little and there is an explanation for what is meant by ths word when it was used in the "OP"

POV = POint of View

intentions = the actual purpose or motive behind an action (did the person do this or that out of greedy intentions or good and pure intentions)... kind of like the state of mind one was in when they decided to do such and such an action.

hretical definition f monophysite: The word literally means "one nature" so TECHNICALLY Oriental Orthodox are monophysite...BUT, NOT in the way that the term is originally meant to be used. The term monophysite was used to describe those who thought either Jesus was JUST a man (having only ONE nature- the human one) or JUST God but not really man (having only ONE nature- the divine one). This in no way describes what Coptics believe so it is incorrect to call them monophysites since they would just as emphatically denounce the above beleifs as we would. They (you) beleive that Christ has ONE nature.... BUT it is a kind of God-man nature... He is both GOD and MAN (neither one is denied) and the Oriental Orthodox describe this as one nature for in this mindset it seems (or at least seemed so at the time, probably with good reason for their own culture) dangerous to split them up into two nautures and risk making a kind of schitzophrenic Jesus. Anyhow, Someone here will corrrect my mistakes and fill in the blanks.

John

thanks John. U rock my socks! Intentions how could i not know intentions? I must have been tired.