Why the Children of Believers Ought to be Baptized

[Tree of Life]

Do you have chapter and verse on that?

In Acts 2:39 Peter uses the familiar covenant formula for salvation. "The promise is for you and for your children..." Compare with the same covenant formula used in Genesis 6:18 and Genesis 17:7.

 

[Dave-W]

Were OT believers saved in a different way than through Christ?

YES. They were saved by being faithful to the Mosaic covenant. There were a lot of laws (613 to be exact) but only a few carried the “cut off from the people” warning. That was an indicator that they were removed from the covenant. I.e. they lost salvation.

It was NOT thru Christ per se. Some could (and have) made round about theological arguments that eventually link back to Christ and His death; but convoluted arguments are NOT what this life is about.

 

[Dave-W]

In Acts 2:39 Peter uses the familiar covenant formula for salvation. "The promise is for you and for your children..." Compare with the same covenant formula used in Genesis 6:18 and Genesis 17:7.

True. Spoken to “devout JEWS.” Not gentiles.

I heard an interesting sermon by one of the early Messianic theologians on Romans 11. It was about the difference of Jewish children, born on the cultivated olive tree vs. gentile childeren born on the other tree. At some point, Jewish children are broken off due to unbelief. (Rom 11.20) He stated that in a Messianic Jewish family, the breaking off need never to happen. But the gentile child will STILL need to be cut from the wild tree of destruction in order to be grafted into the tree of salvation.

 

[Hank77]

Only for eating the Passover meal. It never says they became Israelites proper or were included in the Mosaic covenant.

Exo 12:48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.
Exo 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.
.
H8451
תּרה תּורה
tôrâh tôrâh
to-raw', to-raw'
From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.

Was Moses' Law, Torah? Are the 10 Commandments the covenant that God made with the people and is this Torah?

 

[Hank77]

They were saved by being faithful to the Mosaic covenant.

Were they saved by being faithful to Moses' Law or were they saved because they obeyed Moses' Law through their faith in God?

 

[Hank77]

In Acts 2:39 Peter uses the familiar covenant formula for salvation. "The promise is for you and for your children..." Compare with the same covenant formula used in Genesis 6:18 and Genesis 17:7.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

 

[Cis.jd]

I too have struggles in understanding certain catholic practices, not in a scriptural sense but if it is just a myth or superstition. I understand Baptism as a ritual but attaching beliefs to it such as salvation is hard to believe for me, regardless of the Bible saying so. I guess I rely too much on science over religious practices but I just don't get why a person who isn't baptized go to heaven?

To me, it's always been like an "initiation", like a welcoming or ritual to show the persons entering into christianity. Sorry for my fellow Catholics and other christians not being able to believe the supernaturalism or salvage necessity of it.

 

[Hank77]

I too have struggles in understanding certain catholic practices, not in a scriptural sense but if it is just a myth or superstition. I understand Baptism as a ritual but attaching beliefs to it such as salvation is hard to believe for me, regardless of the Bible saying so. I guess I rely too much on science over religious practices but I just don't get why a person who isn't baptized go to heaven?

To me, it's always been like an "initiation", like a welcoming or ritual to show the persons entering into christianity. Sorry for my fellow Catholics and other christians not being able to believe the supernaturalism or salvage necessity of it.

For me baptism is an outward sign of something that has taken place inwardly.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

Roman Catholics teach that children should be baptized so that they might be justified and regenerated from an early age in baptism.

Baptists teach that children should not be baptized because baptism is reserved only for those who are able to make a credible profession of faith and who are already justified and regenerated.

Both are wrong.

The apostles taught that the children of believers are to be baptized for covenantal reasons. This reasoning is rooted in Old Testament revelation and would be particularly understandable for a Jewish audience. But as the church grew beyond the bounds of Judaism into Gentile lands, the practice of infant baptism was retained, yet it gradually became unmoored from its covenantal framework. Pagan ideas crept into the church and began to influence thinking on baptism and baptism gradually became more magical as the church headed into the medieval era. The Reformation recovered the covenantal setting of baptism. Here's the proper rationale:

1. The Covenant in the OT and in the NT is essentially one, although administered differently. This is to say that both Abraham and the NT believer are in the same covenant of grace. Both Abraham and the NT believer are saved by Jesus Christ - by grace through faith. Jesus fulfills the promises given to Abraham rather than introducing something altogether new.
   
   
2. The children of believers were included in the OT administration of the covenant of grace. Not only Abraham but also his children were given the mark of circumcision and recognized as members of the covenant community. Circumcision was a sign and seal of faith but was not necessarily accompanied by faith in the one circumcised. All in Israel were called to circumcise their hearts.
   
   
3. There is an explicit connection made between circumcision and baptism in Colossians 2:11-12. Paul says that the one who has been baptized has been circumcised.
   
   
4. There is no New Testament command to not baptize children and to exclude them from the covenant. Since the NT administration continues the covenant that God began in the OT, and since in the OT the children of believers were included in the covenant, one would assume that the children of believers should also be included in the NT administration of the covenant. If they were not to be included and given the sign of inclusion, then one would think that the apostles would have explicitly said: "Don't baptize children like you circumcised them in previous times!" But there is no such command. Within a covenantal context, the silence is very telling.

1. A New covenant will be made:Jeremiah 31:31-34, Isaiah 28:10,13-19, Ezekiel 36:23-27,29-31
The Old Covenant will not stand:Isaiah 28:13-19
The New law will be written in their Hearts:Jeremiah 31:33-34, Ezekiel 36:26; Ezekiel 11:19
On a Tried stone will this Covenant be Made:Isaiah 28:16
This New Covenant will give the People a New Spirit:Ezekiel 36:26-27; Ezekiel 11:19
The New Covenant will be of the Promise of Faith:Isaiah 28:16
The Whole Covenant that was the Book of the Covenant would be Fulfilled/completed/ended:Isaiah 28:15,17

The First covenant that was the Law of the Covenant was weak by the Flesh(Romans 8:3-4). It was not of the spirit(Galatians 4:23,24,25,28,29; Romans 7:17,18,19,21,23,24,25; Galatians 6:7,8,12,13), nor was it by Faith(Galatians 3:12; Romans 3:28), nor salvation( Romans 3:20, Galatians 2:16), nor was it a law of life(Romans 8:2), nor even was it a law of Righteousness(Romans 10:5 Romans 3:21; Galatians 5:10,11), the Law of the Covenant was none of these things. The law was not of the Promise of Faith Given to Abraham(Galatians 3:12), it was given only because of Transgressions(Galatians 3:19) and to provide the way for Christ to come and fulfill the Promise of Faith(Galatians 3:24; Romans 4:13), in fulfilling this Promise he made an end of the Law(Romans 10:4), completing it(John 10:30; Hebrews 12:2).


The Promise of faith/law of faith was not yet in place under the Old testament law/covenant
Galatians 3:23-24
23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

The law was given because of transgressions (Galatians 3:19), until the seed of promise which is the Lord(Galatians 3:14,16) would come as a mediator(Galatians 3:19) of that promise(Galatians 3:,8,14,16,22,29). The Law of Moses was not against the promises of God(Galatians 3:21) but life could not come by the law(Galatians 3:21) so that before faith came we were kept under the law shut up in our faith(Galatians 3:23).

The OT covenant/law was not under Grace or of Grace
Romans 6:14-15
14For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.


The promise of Faith given to Abraham was not given to him by way of the law(first covenant), but by faith(Romans 4:3,5,6,7,9,11,12,13,16,20,21,22) that by the same promise of faith, which is Christ, we are justified by the righteousness of our faith and not by the works of the law(Romans 4:23,24,25) for if they which are of the Law be Heirs, then faith is made void and the promise of faith along with it(Romans 4:14,15). The Promise of Abraham(the just shall live by faith) was shut up until the seed came and made an end of the Old law not of grace(Galatians 3:24-25; Romans 10:4). So by looking at this we can see that the promise of faith had not yet come, and that the Circumsion of the Flesh and the Mosaic law that went along with it were not apart of this promise. The blessing of Abraham that was by faith(Galatians 3:6,7,8,9,14) was given to us by promise(Galatians 3:8,14,16,22) the covenant that was the law, which came 430 years after could not disannul this promise(Galatians 3:17).

We can clearly see from scripture that there is a clear divide between the Old law the New law. The Old covenant and the New covenant. That is why we are told we must be dead to one before we can be married to the other.


When we were yet young we were held under teachers and schoolmasters(Galatians 4:2,3; Galatians 3:25) there was yet no difference between the child of the heir and the child of the servant(Galatians 4:1) but when the fullness of time had come God sent forth his son to redeem those kept under the law that they might be heirs, sons and daughters, with him through Christ (Galatians 4:4,5,6,7) we should not turn again to the bondage and the teachers that we were once under(Galatians 4:9,10,11;Galatians 5:1). There are two written after the allegory of the bondwoman and the free(Galatians 4:22,23,24) the child of the bondwoman was born after the flesh(Galatians 4:23,29) but the child of the freewoman was born after the promise to be received(Galatians 4:23,28). The First covenant which is bondwoman was that which was received at Sinai, the book of the covenant(Galatians 4:23,24) those who are the keepers of this first covenant are the child of the bondwoman(Galatians 4:25) the second covenant which is the freewoman was given by the Heavenly jerusalem which is the mother of the free child(Galatians 4:26) we are as Isaac was, the children of promise, the children born of the freewoman(Galatians 4:27,28,31). The children of the flesh(bondwoman) that is to say the children of the book of the covenant persecute they which are the children born of the spirit(freewoman)(Galatians 4:29) . So just as before(Genesis 21:10) we must cast out the bondwoman, which is the book of the covenant (Galatians 4:23,24), and her son(those who keep the mosaic law)(Galatians 4:25) for they cannot be heirs with us who are the children of the freewoman(Galatians 4:30).

There is an Old and a new and they are separate.
Hebrews 8:
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


Isaiah 28:19
18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

Jeremiah 31:
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:


There is a mountain of evidence to show that the OT covenant and the New are completely separate. There is also a wealth of evidence to show that those under the Law/Mosaic covenant were not under grace. If we take the time to look at these facts we see that even to Abraham the time of grace had not yet come because it was only given as a promise for the future and not a law for that day.

Hebrews 11:
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

2. Now as shown this first circumcision was not part of the Law of Faith. To find out what the New covenant circumcision is and what is required we must look at the NT law and not the Old.

The New Covenant is After the Circumcision of the Heart and Spirit:Romans 2:28-29; Acts 15:7-9; Romans 10:8; Colossians 2:11-13; Philippians 3:3

We see that the circumcision of the heart comes by faith in Christ first
Acts 15:7-9
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.


It is this word of Faith that comes by faith that is put into a person's heart
Romans 10:8-
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

We see that the Circumcision is also in the Spirit and how we live our lives after the Law of the spirit.
Philippians 3:3
3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Romans 8:5-6
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

This is why Paul tells us our circumcision is of the heart and spirit by faith in Christ.
Romans 2:
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Colossians 2:11
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

So lets see what we have learned so far
1. The Circumcision of the Heart comes by faith.
2. By faith the Circumcision of the Heart puts God's word into us.
3. Those of the Circumcision of the Heart are also Circumcised in the spirit to follow the Law of God which is the Law of the Spirit.
4. The Circumcision of the Heart by Christ through the faith of the operation of God.
5. That only by confessing and understanding/believing that Christ is God and died for us can we be forgiven and saved.


3. By looking at the rest of scripture we see that one who has been circumcised(by faith in Christ) will be baptized and not the other way around.

4.
A. There is no command against it, but just like everyone else under the New covenant they must first do that which is commanded of them by God before baptism.
Faith in Christ and the understanding of what he did.
Confession with the person's mouth that Christ is God.
Repentance/confession of their own sins to God.
True forgiveness of everyone that has wronged them or they will not be forgiven.
Baptism in Christ's name alone in water.

B. As shown in Point one, if the NT was any part of the Old it would be of none effect. So we can see it is not a continuation of the Old Covenant.

C. He did, and so did the rest of the Apostles. They each told us that before baptism must come several things that an infant is unable to perform.

D. Far from being silent we find a wealth of evidence showing that an infant does not and cannot meet the requirements for baptism.

 

[1213]

...Pagan ideas crept into the church and began to influence thinking on baptism and baptism gradually became more magical as the church headed into the medieval era. ...

I think that magical thinking is problem even today. The meaning of baptism is to make person a disciple of Jesus. When that is done, it was required to teach what Jesus has taught. And then, those who remain in the teachings of Jesus are truly his disciples.

Therefore go, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
Mat. 28:19-20

Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, "If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
John 8:31-32

 

[Dave-W]

Was Moses' Law, Torah? Are the 10 Commandments the covenant that God made with the people and is this Torah?

“Torah” is poorly translated as “law.” It better means teaching or instruction. Ask anyone fluent in bibical Hebrew OTHER than Christian academicians.

The 10 are part of the Torah, but far from the entirety of it. In fact the 2 commands that Our Lord said were the foremost are not part of the 10: Love God with your whole heart mind and strength, and Love your neighbor as yourself. All of the Torah hangs on those 2 points. And that predates Christianity by a good 50 years. Rabbi Hillel said the same thing in the previous century.

 

[Dave-W]

Were they saved by being faithful to Moses' Law or were they saved because they obeyed Moses' Law through their faith in God?

Either or. The Mosaic covenant was not nearly as faith based as the New Covenant is.

 

[Dave-W]

I think that magical thinking is problem even today. The meaning of baptism is to make person a disciple of Jesus.

What is your alternative??? Naturalism?

Christianity is by nature a supernatural belief system. The God who created the universe can and does routinely set aside the natural order of things to superimpose HIS will on creation.

Even the presentation of the gospel should NEVER be done from an intellectual or logic-based argument, Paul said to do it with “demonstration of the Spirit and of Power.”
1 Cor 2.1-5

 

[Hank77]

“Torah” is poorly translated as “law.” It better means teaching or instruction. Ask anyone fluent in bibical Hebrew OTHER than Christian academicians.

Agree.

The 10 are part of the Torah, but far from the entirety of it. In fact the 2 commands that Our Lord said were the foremost are not part of the 10: Love God with your whole heart mind and strength, and Love your neighbor as yourself. All of the Torah hangs on those 2 points. And that predates Christianity by a good 50 years. Rabbi Hillel said the same thing in the previous century.

Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Lev 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

 

[Hank77]

Either or. The Mosaic covenant was not nearly as faith based as the New Covenant is.

Hmm....I agree with you on several things but not this one.

 

[Hank77]

“Torah” is poorly translated as “law.” It better means teaching or instruction. Ask anyone fluent in bibical Hebrew OTHER than Christian academicians.

Maybe you just haven't read some knowledgeable Christian theologians that didn't/don't just know Hebrew but studied other Jewish writings.

Adam Clarke's Commentary
The word תורה torah comes from the root ירה yarah, which signifies to aim at, teach, point out, direct, lead, guide, make straight, or even; and from these significations of the word (and in all these senses it is used in the Bible) we may see at once the nature, properties, and design of the law of God. It is a system of Instruction in righteousness; it teaches the difference between moral good and evil; ascertains what is right and fit to be done, and what should be left undone, because improper to be performed.....

Besides the NT says that it is a tutor.

 

[Dave-W]

Maybe you just haven't read some knowledgeable Christian theologians that didn't/don't just know Hebrew but studied other Jewish writings.

Maybe. The ones I have read seem to intentionally take the opposite tack of anything Jewish.

 

[PaulCyp1]

Jesus taught that no-one is saved unless they are reborn through water and the Spirit, an obvious reference to the holy sacrament of Baptism. Which is why the one Church He founded, which He said was to remain one, to which He promised the fullness of God's truth, has baptized babies since Apostolic times. The unbiblical manmade tradition of withholding baptism from them is only a couple of hundred years old.

 

[Stone-n-Steel]

Most of the Christians I talk to seem to focus more on their baptism than what Jesus did for them on the cross. I think I will stay away from any ritual that removes the focus from the cross (1Cor 1:17).

 

[step_by_step]

I'll admit I have a very loose understanding of baptism. I was baptized at age 11 because I believed I was ready to confess my faith. Also, there were questions of why I hadn't been baptized yet. It's just always been something that my family and church have done. I see it as a symbolic washing away of sins. You go under the water and die to your flesh, then you're resurrected with Christ. That's what my parents always taught me.

That being said, I don't think that it's totally...necessary. Like if someone followed Christ all their life and was very devoted to Him and ministered and preached the words, etc, but was never baptized, I don't think that they would go to Hell for that. Again, though, my understanding of the situation is vague.