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Featured Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Dave L, Aug 16, 2019.

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  1. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    But only through an apostle's hands. Why did Paul want to visit the Romans so he could impart spiritual gifts if they merely for the asking?
     
  2. Johan_1988

    Johan_1988 Member

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    Since it is only one way of transferring the gifts of the Spirit. 1 Cor 12:11 it explains that it is he( the Holy Spirit) that divide the different gifts to people. He can do it Himself or through the hands of an Apostle since it is His to give.
     
  3. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    John the Baptist told everyone that Jesus baptizes with the Spirit. He never specifically mentioned the apostles in that statement.
     
  4. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    His remaining 11 disciples. Matthias was not one of these, yet you said in post 81 that the 12 received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. So Matthias had not been told to wait until he received the Holy Spirit, yet he received him anyway.
    By the time the Spirit was poured out, the number of believers was 120 and they were all gathered together, praying.
    Or are you saying that God said, "my Holy Spirit is for only a few, not for you others"?

    Paul wasn't one of the 12, neither was he told to wait until he received the Holy Spirit, yet we know that he spoke in tongues, 1 Corinthians 14:6, 1 Corinthians 14:18, and laid hands on others so that they did.
     
  5. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    The church has grown today. People are being born again, being brought to Jesus, declaring him as Lord and being assured they are children of God. This is the work of the Holy Spirit, John 3:3, John 6:40, John 1:12, Romans 8:16, 1 Corinthians 12:3. Christians are being guided by the Spirit of truth, just as Jesus promised, John 16:13. Christians are speaking in tongues and receiving, and using, the gifts of the Spirit, as Paul taught, 1 Corinthians 12:4-11, 1 Corinthians 12:28, Ephesians 4:11. Christians are receiving, and walking in, the Spirit and being transformed, by him, into Jesus' image and likeness, 2 Corinthians 3:18.
    Christians today teach, evangelise, help others, serve and so on - all of which are gifts of the Spirit.
    These things are all Scriptural - I have shown you where they are Scriptural - and are all happening today.

    How do you think that Christians evangelise/teach/preach, without the help of the Spirit?
     
  6. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    I do, then you say I don't understand scripture.
     
  7. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    You know, after watching this thread and making the mistake of getting involved myself, I've come to some realizations about what is happening here. What you said above, I don't think that is by accident, and I'll leave it at that. End result, my suggestion to anyone reading this: drop it and move on. Avoid engaging with this... Stuff... Even if you agree with it.
     
  8. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member Supporter

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    But there were more languages spoken than just 12
     
  9. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Nowadays, they are the same thing.
     
  10. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    In these times, they are the same.
     
  11. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    It's a symbolic gesture. That's why man uses the three "names" and not "With the power of...."!

    It could have been I baptize you in the Spirit of....but that's a bit awkward.
     
  12. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    You have no proof that only the Apostles received the Baptism with the Spirit.
    Here is FURTHER proof that the gift, the promise and the Baptism with the Holy Spirit are the same things.

    Acts 1:4-5
    On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
     
  13. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Corinthians had the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and were horribly carnal minded and out of order. The fullness of the Spirit is not the Baptism. It is the New Birth and the fullness of the Spirit that comes through repentance Acts 2:38.
     
  14. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Apostles and those they laid their hands on received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Jesus told the 12 only;

    “...... that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.” Acts 1:4–5 (KJV 1900)
     
  15. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Here's what happened. (You won't hear this in a Pentecostal Church). The 12 spoke in one heavenly language to God. Paul says those who speak in tongues do not speak to men but unto God. And the devout Jews from all nations heard them, each in his own foreign tongue. These also received the gift of interpretation. Had it been millions present, the same would hold true.
     
  16. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If scripture does not support your position, you need to abandon it and go only by what scripture says.
     
  17. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    All believers have the Holy Spirit. Those who lead holy lives have the fullness of the Spirit. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the gifts helped launch NT Christianity. But being incomplete and fragmentary, scripture replaced them giving the full revelation when finally completed in the Book of Revelation.
     
  18. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The 12th had been chosen by time Pentecost. Earlier I said the 12 (one pending). Perhaps you missed this.
     
  19. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    He said "he will baptize you" = 2nd person plural = those present. Not those off in the future. Pharisees and Sadducees were there too. Do you think he meant they would receive the Holy Spirit too.
     
  20. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If so, why did Paul need to go to Rome to distribute spiritual gifts?
     
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