Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today

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Dave L

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Ok got that one wrong ,faith is a fruit then yes since it is the Holy Spirit that gives you the faith to be born again. Now there is a difference between the fruit and the manifestation. Any believer can manifest the fruit since the are born of the Spirit.

These are the manifestations of the Holy Spirit:

1Cor 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Cor 12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Cor 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
1Cor 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Cor 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Cor 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Cor 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1Cor 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
But only through an apostle's hands. Why did Paul want to visit the Romans so he could impart spiritual gifts if they merely for the asking?
 
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Johan_1988

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But only through an apostle's hands. Why did Paul want to visit the Romans so he could impart spiritual gifts if they merely for the asking?

Since it is only one way of transferring the gifts of the Spirit. 1 Cor 12:11 it explains that it is he( the Holy Spirit) that divide the different gifts to people. He can do it Himself or through the hands of an Apostle since it is His to give.
 
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Strong in Him

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Who did Jesus tell to wait in Jerusalem until they receive power from God?

His remaining 11 disciples. Matthias was not one of these, yet you said in post 81 that the 12 received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. So Matthias had not been told to wait until he received the Holy Spirit, yet he received him anyway.
By the time the Spirit was poured out, the number of believers was 120 and they were all gathered together, praying.
Or are you saying that God said, "my Holy Spirit is for only a few, not for you others"?

Paul wasn't one of the 12, neither was he told to wait until he received the Holy Spirit, yet we know that he spoke in tongues, 1 Corinthians 14:6, 1 Corinthians 14:18, and laid hands on others so that they did.
 
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Strong in Him

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If you look further, besides the two outpourings the baptism only came through an Apostle's hands. You need to prove it didn't by showing other examples in scripture. Until then you are adding to scripture.

The church has grown today. People are being born again, being brought to Jesus, declaring him as Lord and being assured they are children of God. This is the work of the Holy Spirit, John 3:3, John 6:40, John 1:12, Romans 8:16, 1 Corinthians 12:3. Christians are being guided by the Spirit of truth, just as Jesus promised, John 16:13. Christians are speaking in tongues and receiving, and using, the gifts of the Spirit, as Paul taught, 1 Corinthians 12:4-11, 1 Corinthians 12:28, Ephesians 4:11. Christians are receiving, and walking in, the Spirit and being transformed, by him, into Jesus' image and likeness, 2 Corinthians 3:18.
Christians today teach, evangelise, help others, serve and so on - all of which are gifts of the Spirit.
These things are all Scriptural - I have shown you where they are Scriptural - and are all happening today.

How do you think that Christians evangelise/teach/preach, without the help of the Spirit?
 
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topher694

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I do, then you say I don't understand scripture.
You know, after watching this thread and making the mistake of getting involved myself, I've come to some realizations about what is happening here. What you said above, I don't think that is by accident, and I'll leave it at that. End result, my suggestion to anyone reading this: drop it and move on. Avoid engaging with this... Stuff... Even if you agree with it.
 
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CharismaticLady

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Only the 12 received the baptism with the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost. Apart from the two outpourings only they could bestow it. It was part of the signs and wonders that confirmed apostleship. Philip was an evangelist who received the baptism through the apostle's hands. But he could not convey it to others. This is why the apostles visited the Samarians to baptize them in the Holy Spirit.

But there were more languages spoken than just 12
 
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SkyWriting

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They are not the same. The New Birth is not the Baptism. OT believers were born again but not baptized with the Holy Spirit until Pentecost.
Nowadays, they are the same thing.
 
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SkyWriting

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They are mislead by popular trends. Many confuse the New Birth and the fullness of the Spirit that comes through repentance with the Baptism. But they are not the same.
In these times, they are the same.
 
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SkyWriting

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I baptise you in the name of the Father, Son and 'Holy Spirit'.

Does it mean those words are meaningless then?

It's a symbolic gesture. That's why man uses the three "names" and not "With the power of...."!

It could have been I baptize you in the Spirit of....but that's a bit awkward.
 
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Saint Steven

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You are defining the outpouring by the Apostle's portion. Trying to apply it to all. And all are (were) not Apostles.
You have no proof that only the Apostles received the Baptism with the Spirit.
Here is FURTHER proof that the gift, the promise and the Baptism with the Holy Spirit are the same things.

Acts 1:4-5
On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
 
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Dave L

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In these times, they are the same.
The Corinthians had the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and were horribly carnal minded and out of order. The fullness of the Spirit is not the Baptism. It is the New Birth and the fullness of the Spirit that comes through repentance Acts 2:38.
 
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Dave L

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You have no proof that only the Apostles received the Baptism with the Spirit.
Here is FURTHER proof that the gift, the promise and the Baptism with the Holy Spirit are the same things.

Acts 1:4-5
On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
The Apostles and those they laid their hands on received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Jesus told the 12 only;

“...... that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.” Acts 1:4–5 (KJV 1900)
 
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Dave L

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But there were more languages spoken than just 12
Here's what happened. (You won't hear this in a Pentecostal Church). The 12 spoke in one heavenly language to God. Paul says those who speak in tongues do not speak to men but unto God. And the devout Jews from all nations heard them, each in his own foreign tongue. These also received the gift of interpretation. Had it been millions present, the same would hold true.
 
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Dave L

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The church has grown today. People are being born again, being brought to Jesus, declaring him as Lord and being assured they are children of God. This is the work of the Holy Spirit, John 3:3, John 6:40, John 1:12, Romans 8:16, 1 Corinthians 12:3. Christians are being guided by the Spirit of truth, just as Jesus promised, John 16:13. Christians are speaking in tongues and receiving, and using, the gifts of the Spirit, as Paul taught, 1 Corinthians 12:4-11, 1 Corinthians 12:28, Ephesians 4:11. Christians are receiving, and walking in, the Spirit and being transformed, by him, into Jesus' image and likeness, 2 Corinthians 3:18.
Christians today teach, evangelise, help others, serve and so on - all of which are gifts of the Spirit.
These things are all Scriptural - I have shown you where they are Scriptural - and are all happening today.

How do you think that Christians evangelise/teach/preach, without the help of the Spirit?
All believers have the Holy Spirit. Those who lead holy lives have the fullness of the Spirit. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the gifts helped launch NT Christianity. But being incomplete and fragmentary, scripture replaced them giving the full revelation when finally completed in the Book of Revelation.
 
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Dave L

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His remaining 11 disciples. Matthias was not one of these, yet you said in post 81 that the 12 received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. So Matthias had not been told to wait until he received the Holy Spirit, yet he received him anyway.
By the time the Spirit was poured out, the number of believers was 120 and they were all gathered together, praying.
Or are you saying that God said, "my Holy Spirit is for only a few, not for you others"?

Paul wasn't one of the 12, neither was he told to wait until he received the Holy Spirit, yet we know that he spoke in tongues, 1 Corinthians 14:6, 1 Corinthians 14:18, and laid hands on others so that they did.
The 12th had been chosen by time Pentecost. Earlier I said the 12 (one pending). Perhaps you missed this.
 
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Dave L

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John the Baptist told everyone that Jesus baptizes with the Spirit. He never specifically mentioned the apostles in that statement.
He said "he will baptize you" = 2nd person plural = those present. Not those off in the future. Pharisees and Sadducees were there too. Do you think he meant they would receive the Holy Spirit too.
 
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Dave L

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Since it is only one way of transferring the gifts of the Spirit. 1 Cor 12:11 it explains that it is he( the Holy Spirit) that divide the different gifts to people. He can do it Himself or through the hands of an Apostle since it is His to give.
If so, why did Paul need to go to Rome to distribute spiritual gifts?
 
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