Why the Antichrist cannot be the Muslim Mahdi

[mindlight]

The sequence of appearance in muslim prophecies are....

First the Mahdi > then the dajjal > then Isa. In muslim prophecies, Isa don't appear until after the Mahdi is in a big battle with the dajjal.

In you claim that the Mahdi will be the biblical Antichrist....to match with the muslim sequence, it would have to be this...

First the Mahdi (the Antichrist) > then the dajjal (the coming real Jesus) > then Isa (the false prophet)

Don't you see that is an impossibility?
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Tommorrow, some muslim could come along and claim "I am the Mahdi ! ". He could even gain a bunch of followers. And some Christians might say - oh, there's the Antichrist. Another version of Obama is the Antichrist, or Kissenger is the Antichrist, or the Pope John Paul is the Antichrist, etc.

But what can't happen is step 2, the dajjal appear - because there is no-one in bible prophecy to play that part, having one eye or a bulging like a grape eye.

If step 2 can't happen, then step 3 - Isa - can't happen.

The Anti-Christ will be a global leader, who will use language less favourable than most Muslims about Jesus. There is a difference between political Islam and real Islam but neither possess true prophetic power or insight.

A Muslim Mahdi will never have the global power or authority and deliberate Anti Christian intent of the Anti-Christ.

 

[Douggg]

The Anti-Christ will be a global leader, who will use language less favourable than most Muslims about Jesus. There is a difference between political Islam and real Islam but neither possess true prophetic power or insight.

A Muslim Mahdi will never have the global power or authority and deliberate Anti Christian intent of the Anti-Christ.

The person who becomes the Antichrist will come out of Europe. Which there appears to be a big backlash against Islam because of the muslim immigration.

I see that you are from Germany. What is your opinion about the backlash against muslims, and the push toward nationalism in Germany?

Since the person will be a Jew, and Islam is out to destroy Israel, it seems to me that it would make sense for the person to be voted in
somewhere in the EU and when Gog/Magog tensions arise that the person will oppose Gog/Magog's military attack on Israel.

 

[mindlight]

The person who becomes the Antichrist will come out of Europe.

It ticks a lot of the boxes if that is so but it is not inevitable that the AC must come from Europe. Also he could be born here and brought up anywhere else. But we will recognise him when he comes if we are focused on God and do not buy into his great delusion.

Which there appears to be a big backlash against Islam because of the muslim immigration.

Most recent immigrants are well behaved. The biggest problems come with radicalised second or third generation Muslims who have not integrated.

What people underestimate is the extent to which most Muslims are changed by immigration, by freedom and by the relative prosperity they enjoy in Europe compared to the Middle East. Certain forms of Islam are not going to be allowed to thrive here like the Salafist Wahhabbi types for instance. There are ridiculous things about Muslim culture that will not survive contact with the education system here such as the view that Adam was 90 foot tall and polygamy ( which is illegal) and the view that black dogs are devil dogs. Many Muslims will become Christians , others will become atheists, few Europeans will convert the other way. The church needs the challenge and is slowly waking up to it. This is not a society that will surrender individual freedoms lightly.

I see that you are from Germany. What is your opinion about the backlash against muslims, and the push toward nationalism in Germany?

Nationalism does not serve the national interest of Germany which is better served by an outward focus on Europe. Business wise Germany prospers better with this outward focus. The greens not the AFD are the rising force right now and a vote for the AFD is a wasted one as none of the other parties will ally with them. Immigration has been radically reduced and is now more from Eastern Europe than Muslim countries. People are firm on not wanting more Muslim migrants but not hostile to the ones we have. There is more effort being made to integrate.

Since the person will be a Jew, and Islam is out to destroy Israel, it seems to me that it would make sense for the person to be voted in
somewhere in the EU and when Gog/Magog tensions arise that the person will oppose Gog/Magog's military attack on Israel.

The AC is no friend of Israel or Jews and antisemitism is a problem with many Muslim migrants. I am more worried about what Europeans would do to a more radicalised and larger Muslim minority than of Europe becoming Muslim. Alot of atheists and Muslims are anti Israel. It seems more likely the shape of evil will be anti Jewish than pro Jewish.

 

[eleos1954]

The topic is for this forum because many Christians think that the Antichrist will be the Muslim Mahdi. One of the optional tags to create new threads on this forum is "Anti-Christ Muslim".

And it is obvious that Islam will play a role in the end times, due to the Gog/Magog event.
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It could be appropriate to share with Muslims as well. But that has to be done elsewhere.

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"And it is obvious that Islam will play a role in the end times, due to the Gog/Magog event."

What are the verses that make this "obvious" ?

 

[Douggg]

"And it is obvious that Islam will play a role in the end times, due to the Gog/Magog event."

What are the verses that make this "obvious" ?

The nations listed in Ezekiel 38:5-6.

 

[Douggg]

The AC is no friend of Israel or Jews and antisemitism is a problem with many Muslim migrants. I am more worried about what Europeans would do to a more radicalised and larger Muslim minority than of Europe becoming Muslim. Alot of atheists and Muslims are anti Israel. It seems more likely the shape of evil will be anti Jewish than pro Jewish.

When the person becomes revealed as the man of sin, and then later the beast, he will persecute the Jews, Israel. It will be a fluid situation.

But before getting to that point, he has to meet the Jews expectations to be the messiah - to become the Antichrist. The role of being the Antichrist boils down to becoming the King of Israel for a while, instead of and against Jesus the rightful King of Israel. At other times, as the little horn and the beast, he will be the King of the Roman Empire in the end times, i.e. the EU in its final form.

John 12;13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.
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What the Jew are expecting, from Judaism 101 site....

"However, the Torah contains several references to "the End of Days" (acharit ha-yamim), which is the time of the mashiach; thus, the concept of mashiach was known in the most ancient times.

The term "mashiach" literally means "the anointed one," and refers to the ancient practice of anointing kings with oil when they took the throne. The mashiach is the one who will be anointed as king in the End of Days."

The person who will actually "anoint" the person as the King of Israel will be the false prophet.

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"The mashiach will be a great political leader descended from King David (Jeremiah 23:5)."

Being the leader of the EU would be a fit - would it not?

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"He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments (Isaiah 11:2-5). He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example."

He has to be a Jew and his religion Judaism.

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"He will be a great military leader, who will win battles for Israel."

The Rambam ( Maimonides, Jewish theologian, 1135-1204) phrases it as he will fight the battles of God in defending Israel. In Daniel 8:23, in the latter time of the trangsressors' kingdom (the final form of the EU - when the ten kings leaders are in place), the little horn person will "stand up" which a phrase for meaning that he prepares to go to war.

In Daniel 8:9, he heads south and east toward the middle east, and Israel with a strong army. Which could be taken two ways; as foe or friend. I am thinking as friend to Israel, in the aftermath of Gog/Magog under the pretenses of keeping peace in the region. But with underlying intentions of securing all of the middle east oil for Europe.

Daniel 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

 

[mindlight]

The nations listed in Ezekiel 38:5-6.

That list includes Ethiopia - Christian and Persia - Shia, Put ( Egypt and N. Africa) - Sunni. It seems an impossible alliance in the current context. This might mean Islam will crumble before these words are fulfilled or that Ethiopia will fall to a compromised version of the faith that will somehow unite with Shia and Sunni under the AC banner. But for that to happen the differences between Sunni and Shia need to be reconciled. These are so profound we are talking about a new religion / delusion here.

 

[parousia70]

It ticks a lot of the boxes

Rather, it ticks a grand total of ZERO of the 4 Boxes that St John uses in His teaching on the proper identification of antichrist:

If you suspect anyone of being antichrist, just ask yourself if the person "ticks" these 4 boxes that John informs us MUST be "ticked" in order to render a proper, accurate, BIBLICAL identification of antichrist, or not...

#1) Has the person departed from the apostles' flocks, defecting from the true Christian faith to join "many deceivers" after first appearing to be a member?

"even now many antichrists have appeared ... THEY WENT OUT FROM US, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us they would have remained with us; but they went out" (1 Jn 2:18-19)

"For many deceivers have GONE OUT INTO THE WORLD ... this is the deceiver and the antichrist" (2 Jn 1:7)

"but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world ... this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world" ( 1 Jn 4:1, 3)

#2) Does this ex-church member now embrace and promote the specific heresy that makes a confession that Christ did not come in the flesh?

"For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who don't confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the Antichrist" (2 John 1:7)

"By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit who confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit who doesn't confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God, and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of whom you have heard that it comes. Now it is in the world already. " (1 Jn 4:2-3)

#3) Does this ex-church member, among many others who now embrace and promote the heresy about Christ not having ever come in the flesh, also try to claim the Father without having the Son (thereby denying both, according to John's teaching: Jn 15:23; Jn 5:23; Jn 8:42)?

"This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the son Whoever denies the Son DOES NOT HAVE THE FATHER; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also." (1 Jn 2:22-23)

#4) Does this person have a vital connection to St. John, who cites his presence in his own day as a sign that the the last hour of the endtimes is come upon the world?

"just as you heard that antichrist is coming, EVEN NOW MANY ANTICHRSTS HAVE APPEARED; FROM THIS WE KNOW IT IS THE LAST HOUR. They went out from us," (1 Jn 2:18-19)

A "TICK" for all four Boxes gives a positive identification -- a single "no" disqualifies that individual.

 

[Douggg]

That list includes Ethiopia - Christian and Persia - Shia, Put ( Egypt and N. Africa) - Sunni. It seems an impossible alliance in the current context. This might mean Islam will crumble before these words are fulfilled or that Ethiopia will fall to a compromised version of the faith that will somehow unite with Shia and Sunni under the AC banner. But for that to happen the differences between Sunni and Shia need to be reconciled. These are so profound we are talking about a new religion / delusion here.

I am wondering if the Ethiopia in Ezekiel 38 is including Sudan. Ethiopa, the modern day country (102 million), is 60% Christian. Sudan (41 million) is 97% muslim and 1.5% Christian.

 

[eleos1954]

The nations listed in Ezekiel 38:5-6.

Gog and Magog don't take place until after Satan is released from His prison and after the 1,000 year reign (in heaven) occurs.


Revelation 20:7-10 ESV / 4 helpful votes
And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

and notice the beast (anti-christ) and the false prophet have already been thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[mindlight]

Rather, it ticks a grand total of ZERO of the 4 Boxes that St John uses in His teaching on the proper identification of antichrist:

If you suspect anyone of being antichrist, just ask yourself if the person "ticks" these 4 boxes that John informs us MUST be "ticked" in order to render a proper, accurate, BIBLICAL identification of antichrist, or not...

#1) Has the person departed from the apostles' flocks, defecting from the true Christian faith to join "many deceivers" after first appearing to be a member?

"even now many antichrists have appeared ... THEY WENT OUT FROM US, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us they would have remained with us; but they went out" (1 Jn 2:18-19)

"For many deceivers have GONE OUT INTO THE WORLD ... this is the deceiver and the antichrist" (2 Jn 1:7)

"but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world ... this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world" ( 1 Jn 4:1, 3)

#2) Does this ex-church member now embrace and promote the specific heresy that makes a confession that Christ did not come in the flesh?

"For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who don't confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the Antichrist" (2 John 1:7)

"By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit who confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit who doesn't confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God, and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of whom you have heard that it comes. Now it is in the world already. " (1 Jn 4:2-3)

#3) Does this ex-church member, among many others who now embrace and promote the heresy about Christ not having ever come in the flesh, also try to claim the Father without having the Son (thereby denying both, according to John's teaching: Jn 15:23; Jn 5:23; Jn 8:42)?

"This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the son Whoever denies the Son DOES NOT HAVE THE FATHER; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also." (1 Jn 2:22-23)

#4) Does this person have a vital connection to St. John, who cites his presence in his own day as a sign that the the last hour of the endtimes is come upon the world?

"just as you heard that antichrist is coming, EVEN NOW MANY ANTICHRSTS HAVE APPEARED; FROM THIS WE KNOW IT IS THE LAST HOUR. They went out from us," (1 Jn 2:18-19)

A "TICK" for all four Boxes gives a positive identification -- a single "no" disqualifies that individual.

John also wrote about THE AntiChrist in Revelation.

 

[parousia70]

John also wrote about THE AntiChrist in Revelation.

Chapter and verse?

 

[Douggg]

Gog and Magog don't take place until after Satan is released from His prison and after the 1,000 year reign (in heaven) occurs.

eleos, the referral to Gog and Magog in Revelation 20 at the end of the 1000 years is that it will include the same nations that will have taken part in the Gog/Magog attack of Ezekiel 38-39, 1007 years earlier.

Ezekiel 38-39 is a compressed picture of the end times final years.

First the Gog/Magog attack on Israel, which God supernaturally destroys their combined army. It will be a crushing blow to Islam, which Islam as a religion will never recover.

Following the Gog/Magog event, in Ezekiel 39:9 are 7 years - which is the 7 years of Daniel 9:27. Which at the start of the 7 years, Israel will be thinking it has entered the messianic age of peace and safety. Them and the world saying peace and safety in 1Thessalonians5:3.

In Ezekiel 39:17- 29, it jumps to the end of the 7 years. Ezekiel 39:17-20 is Armageddon and corresponds to Revelation 19:17-18. In Ezekiel 39:21-29, it is actually Jesus Himself speaking in the text, having returned to earth, recounting the past 2000 years of why the House of Israel spent that time in the nations for rejecting Him to be their king. During the 7 years, however, beginning at the middle of it, the Jews will turn to Jesus and be in good standing with Him when he returns to this earth.

So, the 1000 year reign of Jesus present on earth in Revelation 20 begins then, after Gog/Magog and the 7 years.

At the end of the 1000 years, Satan is released and there is one, Satan, lead, rebellion which will include the former Gog and Magog nations.

 

[eleos1954]

eleos, the referral to Gog and Magog in Revelation 20 at the end of the 1000 years is that it will include the same nations that will have taken part in the Gog/Magog attack of Ezekiel 38-39, 1007 years earlier.

Ezekiel 38-39 is a compressed picture of the end times final years.

First the Gog/Magog attack on Israel, which God supernaturally destroys their combined army. It will be a crushing blow to Islam, which Islam as a religion will never recover.

Following the Gog/Magog event, in Ezekiel 39:9 are 7 years - which is the 7 years of Daniel 9:27. Which at the start of the 7 years, Israel will be thinking it has entered the messianic age of peace and safety. Them and the world saying peace and safety in 1Thessalonians5:3.

In Ezekiel 39:17- 29, it jumps to the end of the 7 years. Ezekiel 39:17-20 is Armageddon and corresponds to Revelation 19:17-18. In Ezekiel 39:21-29, it is actually Jesus Himself speaking in the text, having returned to earth, recounting the past 2000 years of why the House of Israel spent that time in the nations for rejecting Him to be their king. During the 7 years, however, beginning at the middle of it, the Jews will turn to Jesus and be in good standing with Him when he returns to this earth.

So, the 1000 year reign of Jesus present on earth in Revelation 20 begins then, after Gog/Magog and the 7 years.

At the end of the 1000 years, Satan is released and there is one, Satan, lead, rebellion which will include the former Gog and Magog nations.

Paul said that "the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first" (1 Thessalonians 4:16; see also 1 Corinthians 15:51-54). Thus, one of the events to occur at the beginning of the millennium will be the resurrection of the righteous (1st resurrection).

Paul then added that "we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them [the resurrected saints] in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever (1 Thessalonians 4:17). God's people will be taken to heaven at Christ's second coming, and a statement that Jesus made while He was still on the earth confirms this. He promised His disciples that "I am going there [heaven] to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back [His second coming] and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am" (John 14:2, 3). Jesus is now in heaven (Acts 2:32, 33; Hebrews 9:25), and He promised that at His second coming He would take His people to be with Him, where He is.

 

[Douggg]

Paul said that "the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first" (1 Thessalonians 4:16; see also 1 Corinthians 15:51-54). Thus, one of the events to occur at the beginning of the millennium will be the resurrection of the righteous (1st resurrection).

Paul then added that "we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them [the resurrected saints] in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever (1 Thessalonians 4:17). God's people will be taken to heaven at Christ's second coming, and a statement that Jesus made while He was still on the earth confirms this. He promised His disciples that "I am going there [heaven] to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back [His second coming] and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am" (John 14:2, 3). Jesus is now in heaven (Acts 2:32, 33; Hebrews 9:25), and He promised that at His second coming He would take His people to be with Him, where He is.

In sequence...

1Thessalonians4:15-18, rapture/resurrection - before the Day of the Lord begins, taken to heaven
great tribulation takes place on earth
Jesus's second coming - Jesus returns to earth with his saints.
beginning of the thousand years - the martyred great tribulation saints bodies are redeemed.
end of the thousand years - resurrection of all the remaining dead from all ages. The Great White Throne judgment, some to eternal life, some to the eternal destruction.

 

[Douggg]

John also wrote about THE AntiChrist in Revelation.

The person is not in the role of being the Antichrist in Revelation, but as being the beast.

 

[eleos1954]

In sequence...

1Thessalonians4:15-18, rapture/resurrection - before the Day of the Lord begins, taken to heaven
great tribulation takes place on earth
Jesus's second coming - Jesus returns to earth with his saints.
beginning of the thousand years - the martyred great tribulation saints bodies are redeemed.
end of the thousand years - resurrection of all the remaining dead from all ages. The Great White Throne judgment, some to eternal life, some to the eternal destruction.

end of the thousand years - resurrection of all the remaining dead from all ages. The Great White Throne judgment, some to eternal life, some to the eternal destruction.

No ... there are two separate resurrections and the 1st one (of the saved) happens when He returns.

1st Thessalonians 4

The Return of the Lord

13Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep (saved resting in the grave). 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ (saved) will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

 

[Douggg]

No ... there are two separate resurrections and the 1st one (of the saved) happens when He returns.

1st Thessalonians 4

The Return of the Lord

13Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep (saved resting in the grave). 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ (saved) will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

eleos, continue to the next chapter about sudden destruction coming on "them" who will be saying peace and safety, and the beginning of the Day of the Lord.

1Thessalonians 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

eleos, verse 10-11 is the same as in 1Thessalonians4:15-18

1Thessalonaians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.
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Paul's message in 1Thessalonians and 2Thessalonians is about keeping the faith, and watching, and the blessed hope of Salvation, to not have to go through that time of sudden destruction which will come upon the whole earth.

 

[eleos1954]

eleos, continue to the next chapter about sudden destruction coming on "them" who will be saying peace and safety, and the beginning of the Day of the Lord.

1Thessalonians 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

eleos, verse 10-11 is the same as in 1Thessalonians4:15-18

1Thessalonaians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.
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Paul's message in 1Thessalonians and 2Thessalonians is about keeping the faith, and watching, and the blessed hope of Salvation, to not have to go through that time of sudden destruction which will come upon the whole earth.

When the Lord returns the 1st resurrection happens and all the saved dead are resurrected and the living saved are translated and all are taken to heaven to be with the Lord.

All the unsaved living are destroyed by the brightness of His coming, because no one can see God and live.

Exodus 33:20

But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."

2nd Thessalonians 2
Berean Study Bible
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and annihilate by the majesty of His arrival.

So, yes, the saved do not go through the destruction of His 2nd coming, nor the final destruction when the GWTJ occurs 1,000 years later and the 2nd resurrection happens and the battle of gog and magog happens.

and yes we are to watch...

Luke 21:11
There will be great earthquakes, and in various places famines and pestilences. And there will be terrors and great signs from heaven.

Luke 21:25
“And there will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth distress of nations in perplexity because of the roaring of the sea and the waves,

Luke 21:28
Now when these things begin to take place, straighten up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”

1 Thessalonians 5

is talking about about the Day of the Lord, the day of His return.

 

[Douggg]

1 Thessalonians 5

is talking about about the Day of the Lord, the day of His return.

The Day of the Lord begins when the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God.

Before then, the world and the Jews will be saying peace and safety.

The rapture/resurrection will take place before the day when the Antichrist goes into the temple and sits, making his claim - triggering the time of destruction upon them who will be thinking peace and safety, believing they are living n the messianic era.

All the unsaved living are destroyed by the brightness of His coming, because no one can see God and live.

Exodus 33:20

But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."

Well, you are going to have to reconcile Exodus 33:20 with every eye shall see Jesus at His Second Coming.

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.