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Featured Why the Antichrist cannot be the Muslim Mahdi

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Douggg, Jun 9, 2019.

  1. Seville90210

    Seville90210 Psalm 118:26

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    Well if you don't believe Muslims are worshiping an idol, what's that black thing in the middle they're kissing?

    Looks like a piece of rock to me.

     
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  2. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    From wikipedia...
    Black Stone - Wikipedia

    "Muslim pilgrims circle the Kaaba as a part of the tawaf ritual during the hajj and many try to stop and kiss the Black Stone, emulating the kiss that Islamic tradition records that it received from Muhammad.[3][4] Muslims do not worship the Black Stone."
     
  3. Seville90210

    Seville90210 Psalm 118:26

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    That's all you've been giving me, just your own reasonings of what you think the bible teaches, no scriptures whatsoever.

    I've seen that video numerous times and never posted it because their theories are not only unbiblical, it's pretty laughable when you scrutinize what they're saying.

    Ed Hinson, the guy with the toupee quoted
    Daniel 11:37 and argued the a/c cannot be a Jew. So right there you just stuck your foot in your mouth posting this video as he killed your theory on a Jewish a/c.

    Where Ed stuck his foot in his mouth is when he said the a/c has to be atheist. Tell me Douggg, what atheist would believe in a god let alone sit in the most holy temple on earth and claim to be God?

    And Ron Rhodes, the guy with the gray hair has some really poor arguments.

    1) Ron argued that "No good Muslim would ever claim to be God."

    Douggg, what good Muslim would sit in the holy temple of God and claim to be God? The a/c is not a good Muslim, he's a bad Muslim that will execute those who will not worship him by cutting off their heads in the tribulation. So tell me Douggg, who do you see beheading people today, non-Muslims? Are ISIS members good Muslims or bad Muslims? Since no one else is cutting people's head off, the a/c can only be a Muslim.

    2) Ron also argued that "It is unlikely that a Muslim leader would desire peace for Israel."

    Ron is incorrect. Arab Muslim nations: Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, UAE, Bahrain and many others are pushing the Palestinians to accept Trump's peace agreement. The Saudi Crown Prince recently even offer Abba 10 billions if he'll accept the peace deal. So Ron's argument here show lack of knowledge of what's happening in the world today.

    3) Ron finally argued "It is unlikely Israel would trust a covenant by a Muslim leader."

    Tell me Douggg, if Ron is correct, why are Trump and Netanyahu working on a peace agreement with the Palestinians? Are Palestinians not Muslims?

    All of Ron Rhodes theories have holes in them.

    ===============​

    Daniel 9:27 NKJV
    Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."

    Douggg, if the a/c is the one who confirms the covenant in Daniel 9:27 and we see Israel working on a peace treaty with the Muslims, than who else can the a/c be? No, not Jewish.

    The a/c can't be Jewish. Israel is not working on a peace treaty with another Jewish nation and Israel is currently not fighting against another Jewish nation. This is basic logic 101 my padawan. Throw out that false Jewish Messiah from the EU theory of yours.
     
  4. Seville90210

    Seville90210 Psalm 118:26

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    That's wrong, they do worship the rock. They pray to it, they walk 7 times around it and finally kiss it. Muslims are there at the Hajj Pilgrimage only to worship.



    Millions of Muslims take part in the Islamic pilgrimage to Mecca every year, but what makes this event so significant?

    The hajj, one of the five pillars of Islam, is an Islamic religious pilgrimage that is a mandatory act of worship for all financially and physically capable adult Muslims at least once in their lives. The rituals last five days and take place on the eighth day of the Dhu al-Hijjah lunar month in Mecca, Saudi Arabia.


    The Fifth Pillar of Islam: What Is the Hajj?




    My question is if Muslims are practicing idolatry by the millions during the Hajj Pilgrimage every year, why do you keep arguing Muslims don't worship idols?

    So my question again, if you don't think Muslims worship idols, why are they worshiping a rock at the Mecca?
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
  5. Seville90210

    Seville90210 Psalm 118:26

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    The Muslims do not read Revelation 13 or any of the bible. Your argument has no merit. Since Israel is working on a peace treaty with the Muslims and the a/c later confirms the covenant peace treaty, it can only mean the false prophet is more likely to be a Muslim.
     
  6. Willing-heart

    Willing-heart In Christ Alone. Supporter

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    The Antichrist with a capital A is yet to be revealed, but antichrists with a small a are all around us, spreading false teaching in our culture and in the church. When the Antichrist comes, he will be hard to recognize as the Antichrist. If you study Islamic eschatology, you will discover that the Mahdi has all of the power and authority of the Antichrist. Like the Antichrist, the Mahdi will establish his capital in Jerusalem, and he will rule the world from the holy city. Islamic eschatology says the Mahdi will wage war against Jews and Christians. When Muslims call for a worldwide Caliphate, they are calling for the coming of the Mahdi.
     
  7. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    It is not whether muslims read Revelation 13 or not.

    It is whether the muslim concept of Isa would have the world make an an image, idol, of the beast and have the world worship it or be killed.

    Which the false prophet is therefore not a match for the muslim Isa. And the theory of the muslim Isa will be the false prophet of the bible fails.
    ____________________________________________________

    The covenant in Daniel 9:27 confirmed for 7 is not a peace treaty anyway. It is the Mt. Sinai covenant. Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

    And why would Israel agree to a peace treaty with a 7 year limitation on it?
     
  8. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    It not mandatory that they kiss the black stone. They are required to make the trip though.

    from the same wikepedia article that you copied and pasted....

    "During Hajj, pilgrims join processions of hundreds of thousands of people, who simultaneously converge on Mecca for the week of the Hajj, and perform a series of rituals: each person walks counter-clockwise seven times around the Kaaba (the cube-shaped building and the direction of prayer for the Muslims), runs back and forth between the hills of Safa and Marwah, drinks from the Zamzam Well, goes to the plains of Mount Arafat to stand in vigil, spends a night in the plain of Muzdalifa, and performs symbolic stoning of the devil by throwing stones at three pillars. After the sacrifice of their animal, the Pilgrims then are required to shave their head. Then they celebrate the three-day global festival of Eid al-Adha.[14][15][16][17]"

    You are drifting way off course trying to prove that muslims are into idol worship.

    Get back on track. The issue is whether muslims, to be in accordance with their faith, would worship the mahdi as God ? Because that is what the beast will claim to be.

    And would muslims worship an image of the beast, an idol; and would Isa, their Jesus, have the world make an idol and say worship it or die?

    What you are counting on in the Mahdi will be the Antichrist theory - is that the muslim prophecies can come true - in the form of the biblical beast and false prophet, and that the real Jesus will be the muslim dajjal.

    It's just not going to happen. There may be some Muslim claim to be the Mahdi and gain some followers, and may even be a party to Gog/Magog. Maybe. But that is as far as the Mahdi issue can go.

    Being the beast, with Isa as the false prophet doesn't fit.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
  9. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The person who becomes the Antichrist, and then later as the beast of Revelation, will in the middle of the 7 years claim to be God and be worshiped by his followers.

    How does that correspond to the Muslim eschatology and belief about the Mahdi.
     
  10. Swan7

    Swan7 Made in the image of His Grace Supporter

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    From what I understand, the abomination of desolation is already here... the Dome on the Rock stands where it should not be... which is on God's Holy Mount.
    Dome on the Rock
     
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  11. Blade

    Blade Veteran Supporter

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    Well praise God.. wow look how easy that was.. all done.. nothing to see here! Just playing forgive me..

    Yeah...there is WAY to much to talk about regrading this.. and then to post it.. be a book.. wait.. SO many are books
     
  12. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    They bow towards it, Douggg

    It is a chalice of divine worship. They kiss it. One could say they don’t worship it, but there it is.

    All Islam is unified in the veneration of the stone.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    The beast is a multitude of people. The translation correctly renders that way... as an option.
     
  14. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Could you be a little more specific, as to what verse(s) you are referring to?

    In Revelation 13:1-3, the beast is a reference to the person, and to his kingdom (if that is what you mean by a multitude of people).

    I have concluded that the beast's kingdom will be the EU in it's final form. Which, in my view, is the end times version of the Roman Empire.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
  15. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    I don't disagree.

    The issue of the Mahdi though, projecting him to be the bible Antichrist is that the Antichrist becomes magnified in his heart and thinks he has achieved God-hood. Ezekiel 28:1-10. And it just gets amplified when he comes back to life. Isaiah 14:19-20. And becomes the beast.

    Being the beast doesn't match the muslim concept of the Mahdi, such that they would worship him as God.
     
  16. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    We refer to the same verses. Admittedly... I understand only God really knows the full meaning of these verses... so we are sharing possibilities.

    For that, I’m appreciative.
     
  17. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    There is the False Prophet and the AntiChrist. The multitude of one of them is the multitude of the beast.

    The beast is theologically estimated to be one in the same as the anti Christ. It is conjecture, but most Christian Eschatology leans that way.

    As for the links between the A/C and the Islamic Messiah... they do seem to be rather solid.

    I’ll be sincere, I find Islam to be the Devil’s doctrine as it breeds the type of outcome we see in the Sanhedrin... that condemned God the Son to death.

    It will supersede Christianity within 50 years and utterly dismantles the Gospel with its lies.

    It has blinded more souls than any other religion throughout history, to the Gospel and it is rooted in the very tribes of Ismael that rise up against Israel, Time after time.

    I’m not saying I know it’s the one... but it sure has a grip on the UN... and it is comprised of the largest Empire that has ever existed... and only fell less than 100 years ago.

    I’m not ready to write it off. But that’s just my opinion.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
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  18. Curtis.Hilliker

    Curtis.Hilliker .....

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    Sura IV.157-158).

    Here is the text in full:

    “That they said (in boast), ‘We killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary, The Apostle of God’; — But they killed him not, Nor crucified him, But so it was made To appear to them, And those who differ Therein are full of doubts, With no (certain) knowledge, But only conjecture to follow, For of a surety They killed him not: — Nay, God raised him up Unto Himself; and God Is Exalted in Power, Wise”



    No offense but that’s all I need to know about Muslim “scripture”. Have a nice evening!
     
  19. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Muslims will be gone and Islam will be no more at the Day of the Lord's fiery wrath.
    Not if, but when, the confederation of Islamic nations and entities such as Hamas and Hezbollah, attack Israel in their desperate effort to overcome the humiliation of previous failed attempts to “wipe Israel off the map “- Then, the Lord will act against His enemies, Isaiah 42:14-15, in His terrible Day of vengeance and wrath against the nations. Hab. 3:12, Ezekiel 20:46-47, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Rev. 6:12-17

    Here is a few of Bible verses that reveals the fates of those “evil neighbours”: Jeremiah 12:14.
    Note: this judgement includes Judah, the current State of Israel. Ezekiel 21:1-7, Amos 2:4-5

    THE NATIONS

    Psalms 83:1-18 Do not keep silent, O God, for your enemies have devised a plot against your people. Let us wipe them out as a nation, they say- Let Israel be remembered no more.......

    Scatter those godless people; make them as dung on the ground. As a fire rages through a forest, may they perish in disgrace.

    Zechariah 12:1-9 This is the word of the Lord concerning Israel. I am about to make Jerusalem an intoxicating cup that sends all the surrounding nations reeling. Judah will be involved. On that day, when all the nations of the earth are against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock. All who try to move her will be cut to pieces. The armies of those nations will be struck with blindness and madness. Judah will praise Me on that Day and their leaders will be strong, as a burning torch among the sheaves. All the nations right and left will be consumed, while Jerusalem remains safe. Isaiah 31:5, Psalms 125, Jeremiah 3:17-18

    Isaiah 33:10-12 Now I shall arise, says the Lord. You will be like chaff and stubble. Whole nations will be heaps of white ash, like thorns set ablaze. Matthew 3:12, Hebrews 10:27, Rev 6:12-17

    Jeremiah 9:25-26 The Lord says, the time is coming when I will punish all who are circumcised only in the flesh. All those who live in the desert regions are uncircumcised in their hearts. Ezekiel 30:1-5

    Ezekiel 28:26 When I execute judgement on all of Israel’s scornful neighbours, then My [faithful Christian] people will live in the Land, undisturbed. Amos 9:13-15

    IRAN
    Jeremiah 49:35-39 The Lord says, I shall break the bow of Elam, their chief weapon. I will bring disaster upon them, destroy their leaders and officials and scatter them around the earth.

    Ezekiel 32:24 Elam is buried in Sheol, with all her people- victims of the sword. Those who spread terror in the land of the living, now bear disgrace with all those in the abyss.

    PALESTINIANS
    Ezekiel 25:15-17 The Lord says, because the Philistines have resorted to revenge with malice in their hearts and with ancient hostility, they seek to destroy Judah. I shall stretch out My hand against them and take mighty vengeance.

    Amos 1:6-8 For crime after crime of Gaza, they will have no reprieve – I shall send fire until the last of the Philistines is dead.

    Zephaniah 2:4-7 At midday Gaza will be left in ruins, I will destroy you. You will be left with no inhabitants.

    LEBANON
    Luke 10:14 Tyre and Sidon will be judged.

    Amos 1:9-10 For the sins of Tyre, I will not hold back My wrath. They ignored the brotherly alliance; therefore, I shall send fire to consume their fortresses

    Zechariah 9:3-5 The word of the Lord alights on Tyre and Sidon – I will take away your possessions and the cities will be destroyed by fire.

    SYRIA
    Amos 1:3-5 For crime after crime of Damascus, I will grant them no reprieve. I shall send fire on their fortresses.

    Jeremiah 49:23-27 News comes of a disaster, confusion and anxiety reign, they try to escape, but all her soldiers die on that day.

    Isaiah 17:1-14 Damascus will cease to be a city, forever desolate. Listen - it is the thunder of vast forces, at evening all is terror, before morning all is gone. Such is the fate of our adversaries.

    ARABIA
    This prophecy in Jeremiah mentions King Nebuchadrezzer of Babylon attacking Kedar and Hazor. This did happen during Jeremiah’s lifetime, but not to the full extent of this prophecy:

    Jeremiah 49:28-33 Arise, attack Kedar and destroy the desert peoples of the East. Your possessions will be taken. A cry of terror will go up – flee quickly away and hide in remote places. Hazor will become a desolate place forever, totally uninhabited.

    Isaiah 21:13-17 An oracle concerning Arabia. You, who live in Arabia and Tema, meet the fugitives with food and water, those who flee from the sword, from the heat of the battle. Then, within a year, all of Kedar’s glory will come to an end, only a few of her soldiers will be left.
    [This is interesting: “meet the fugitives”, may mean those escaping from Jordan, down the Desert Highway or the old Kings Highway.]

    JORDAN
    Ezekiel 25:1-11 Prophesy against the Ammonites – because you exulted over the Land of Israel with spiteful contempt, I shall give you up to be plundered by the nations. I will cut you off from other peoples and exterminate you from every country. Peoples from the East will camp on your land.

    Jeremiah 49:1-8 Has Israel no heirs? Why, then do Milcoms people possess the towns of Gad? Therefore a time is coming when you will hear the battle cry. Ammon will become a desolate mound, all its towns burnt to ashes.

    Ezekiel 21:28-32 A sword of slaughter will flash like lightning. The visions that you have are false, advising you to bring the sword against the unbelievers, but the time of their punishment will come later. In the land of your ancestry, I will judge you, I shall hand you over to brutal men. You will be fuel for the fire and be remembered no more.

    Amos 1:13-15 For crime after crime of the Ammonites, I shall grant them no reprieve, because in their greed for land, they ripped open pregnant women in Gilead. Therefore, fire will destroy Rabbah- Ammon with a whirlwind on that day. Their King will go into exile and his officers with him.

    EGYPT
    Isaiah 19:1-10 The Lord comes riding swiftly on a cloud, He descends on Egypt and the hearts of the Egyptians melt within them. I will stir them up against each other. They will be confused, all their plans fail. Idols and spirit mediums are useless. I shall hand Egypt over to a hard master. The Nile will dry up. Fishing, agriculture and industry will all fail.

    Isaiah 19:11-16 Egypt's leaders give senseless advice – the Lord has poured a spirit of confusion into them. The Egyptians will become weak and terror stricken.

    Isaiah 19:17-20 Judah will bring terror to the Egyptians, even the mention of Israel will terrify them. In that day there will be 5 cities who speak the ancient language and who worship the Lord. [Coptic Christians?] Also, on that day there will be an altar and a monument to the Lord, as a witness when they cry out to Him, and He will send a deliverer to rescue them. Egypt will acknowledge and worship the Lord, He will respond to them and heal them.

    Ezekiel 29:8 The Lord God says, I am bringing a sword against you. Egypt will become a desolate wasteland. For 40 years the people will be scattered among the nations. Then regathered to upper Egypt.

    Ezekiel chapter 30 Alas for the day, a sword will come on Egypt, by the hand of foreigners, I shall lay waste to the land of Egypt.

    Ezekiel chapter 31 The pride of Pharaoh, the leader of Egypt, is cut down.

    Ezekiel chapter 32 Many peoples will be appalled at the fate of Egypt, the cattle destroyed, the land laid waste and empty.

    Modern place names from Strongs Concordance; Elam= Persia. Now Iran. Philistines = Palestinians. Tyre and Sidon = Cities in Lebanon. Damascus = Capital of Syria. Rabbah-Ammon= Amman, capital of Jordan. Gilead = The area of North Western Jordan. Gad = the Israelite tribe given the Gilead area. Milcom= the high God of the Ammonites. Kedar & Teman= Sons of Ishmael, ancestors of the Arabs. Hazor = the area of Eastern Arabia, including Mecca and Medina.

    There are other prophecies which give the fates of Edom, Moab, Assyria, etc. As the modern identity of these peoples is uncertain, I have not included them.
     
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  20. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    I pray for them (muslims), still... that many of them will turn their hearts from hate... but it indeed seems they (Islam) have made a deal with the Devil!

    I know Israel will suffer once more... but she indeed will be turned from her unfaithful ways.

    I read from Genesis to Acts, feeling like unfaithful Israel, because of my failures to God. I read from Matthew to Revelation, astounded at God’s Mercy. I read Romans 11 and weep for God’s adulterous widow!

    I read Joel 3 and Zechariah 14 with the utmost hope for our Spiritual Sister... Israel!

    I look forward to no one’s demise, but I cannot lie... I look forward to the day Israel turns back to the True Temple (Jesus), relies on God the Son to protect her, as He did in the days of Moses... and her enemies see the true Authority of the King of the Jews.

    (Zechariah 14:4 ; Joel 3:1-3)
     
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