Why Republican voters say there’s ‘no way in [you know what]’ Trump lost

[Erik Nelson]

Tell us about it -- due process has tossed 30 separate lawsuits to overturn the election out of court -- but folks still won't accept that Donald lost!

That spin has been refuted numerous times but some folks won't accept that court cases proceed apace "fast track"

Listen to Jenna Ellis: Fake news media isn't a court of law | Sara Carter Show | Podcasts | iHeartRadio

Meanwhile, more:

Joe Biden won illegal votes from thousands of noncitizens, study shows - Washington Times

 

[Erik Nelson]

"Pennsylvania's voting rolls are mess -- over 800k extra voters. Counties gave wrong data to the feds and then commonwealth and counties even gave differing numbers to the court in our big voter roll clean up lawsuit"

Judicial Watch: Pennsylvania Counties Admit They Gave Incorrect Voter Roll Information to Federal Government – Disclose Conflicting Numbers of Inactive Voters to Court | Judicial Watch

 

[Erik Nelson]

A dozen compelling allegations of voting irregularities in 2020 election

"Computer issue in Oakland County, Mich., blamed as a GOP incumbent belatedly declared winner after first being told he lost.

While it had appeared that incumbent Republican Adam Kochenderfer had narrowly lost an Oakland County commissioner election contest, it turned out that he had actually won"

 

[TLK Valentine]

That spin has been refuted numerous times but some folks won't accept that court cases proceed apace "fast track"

Court cases proceed pretty quickly to dismissal when you forget your evidence in your other pants -- ask Rudy.

Listen to Jenna Ellis: Fake news media isn't a court of law | Sara Carter Show | Podcasts | iHeartRadio

Meanwhile, more:

Joe Biden won illegal votes from thousands of noncitizens, study shows - Washington Times

First you bash the media, then you rely on it.

Coming or going? Pick one.

 

[dzheremi]

A dozen compelling allegations of voting irregularities in 2020 election

"Computer issue in Oakland County, Mich., blamed as a GOP incumbent belatedly declared winner after first being told he lost.

While it had appeared that incumbent Republican Adam Kochenderfer had narrowly lost an Oakland County commissioner election contest, it turned out that he had actually won"

The implication here being that because this happened to this Kochenderfer guy, therefore the same or similar happened to Trump, and he actually won Michigan, I guess? Kochenderfer won by what turned out to be 1,127 votes over his opponent. Meanwhile, at the level of the state-wide vote for president, with 99% reporting by this morning, we see that Biden has beaten Trump in Michigan 2,806,899 to 2,651,270 -- a difference of 155,629 votes. That's about 138 times larger than the difference revealed by the technical error that led to Kochenderfer being erroneously being told he had lost when he actually won.

But, sure, let's say for the sake of argument Trump won Michigan. That's 16 electoral college votes given to Trump to be taken from Biden's total, so now the picture is 290 electoral votes projected for Biden, versus 248 for Trump. So Biden is still over the 270 needed to win, and Trump is still well under.

But maybe there are similarly massive technical errors in Arizona, Nevada, and on and on that we just don't know about, and that Trump's legal team have just somehow forgotten to tell all the judges in the country that they have lost in front of so far due to lack of evidence or improper filing.

Does that sound even remotely reasonable to anyone here? Because it doesn't to me. There are just too many reversals needed to put Trump over the line, and not enough errors that would generate the magnitude of shifting votes needed to make any of them actually happen. It seems that even the GOP are starting to get this (finally), with even long-time supporters of this president like NJ governor Chris Christie saying "we cannot continue to act as though something happened here that did not happen."

 

[Bobber]

That's not the problem. We have a large chunk of the population that believes conspiracy theories, and half our national leadership who wants to take political advantage of that.

Id challenge the other half you would claim that don't to find out what they believe about everything. I don't buy the line half of any side don't consider conspiracy theories as being potentially true. Conspiracy is a legal term as well. To mock and malign the very term is to say shut up and be silent against challenging whatever is put out as valid. Is that really the type of world you want to live in that people don't engage in critical thinking?

 

[Bobber]

Tales from Trump country.

Brett Fryar is a middle-class Republican. A 50-year-old chiropractor in this west Texas town, he owns a small business. He has two undergraduate degrees and a master’s degree, in organic chemistry. He attends Southcrest Baptist Church in nearby Lubbock.

Now, Fryar says he would go to war for Trump. He has joined the newly formed South Plains Patriots, a group of a few hundred members that includes a “reactionary” force of about three dozen - including Fryar and his son, Caleb - who conduct firearms training

“If President Trump comes out and says: ‘Guys, I have irrefutable proof of fraud, the courts won’t listen, and I’m now calling on Americans to take up arms,’ we would go,” said Fryar

In Reuters interviews with 50 Trump voters, all said they believed the election was rigged or in some way illegitimate.

Many voters interviewed by Reuters said they formed their opinions by watching emergent right-wing media outlets such as Newsmax and One American News Network that have amplified Trump’s fraud claims.

In Sundown, Texas, Mayor Jonathan Strickland said there’s “no way in [you know what]” Biden won fairly. The only way he’ll believe it, he said, is if Trump himself says so.

“Trump is the only one we’ve been able to trust for the last four years,” said Strickland, an oilfield production engineer. “As far as the civil war goes, I don’t think it’s off the table.”

Asked whether Trump might be duping his followers, he said it’s hard to fathom.

“If I’m being manipulated by Trump ... then he is the greatest con man that ever lived in America,” Caleb Fryar said.

Interesting piece. I'm curious though. If this went to the Supreme Court and they sided in with Trump how would the other side respond? If TOP Dems said there is no case of fraud but the Courts won't accept that so we're calling on Americans to take up arms would that be fine? And what if someone asked you do you think your Dem leaders have duped you wouldn't you be saying the same...."It's hard to fathom they would" ???

So what's the difference? I know I'd probably hear that we've got the facts on our side but don't all sides believe they have those?

 

[Archivist]

Interesting piece. I'm curious though. If this went to the Supreme Court and they sided in with Trump how would the other side respond? If TOP Dems said there is no case of fraud but the Courts won't accept that so we're calling on Americans to take up arms would that be fine? And what if someone asked you do you think your Dem leaders have duped you wouldn't you be saying the same...."It's hard to fathom they would" ???

So what's the difference? I know I'd probably hear that we've got the facts on our side but don't all sides believe they have those?

Then the Trump side needs to offer evidence in a court of law. They have not done that. Trump's case was thrown out with prejudice in a Federal court in Pennsylvania because no evidence was offered to back his claims. The judge is that case wrote “This court was unable to find any case in which a plaintiff has sought such a drastic remedy in the constest of an election, in terms of the sheer volume of votes asked to be invalidated."

 

[grasping the after wind]

That's not the problem. We have a large chunk of the population that believes conspiracy theories, and half our national leadership who wants to take political advantage of that. This is the kind of situation that in other countries has led to dictatoratorships. 20 years ago I would have thought any serious prospect of that in the US was absurd. I'm no longer so sure. Many CF contributors would be happy to forget elections (claiming, of course, that the elections are fake news) and make Trump the ruler. I'm afraid they speak for many others.

Maybe having Trump out of power for 4 years will improve things, but this has been going on for longer than that. How many people believed that Obama wasn't a US citizen?

I think you may have your political bias blinders on when you say only half of our national leadership wants to take advantage of people that will believe conspiracy theories.

 

[essentialsaltes]

I'm curious though. If this went to the Supreme Court and they sided in with Trump how would the other side respond?

I remember 2000 pretty well. Democrats got over it when SCOTUS ruled on how Florida had to run its recounts. Obviously, the situations are very different, and it's hard to see how your hypothetical would come to pass.

I know I'd probably hear that we've got the facts on our side but don't all sides believe they have those?

I guess, but facts are the things that correspond with reality. So far, reality is on Team Blue.

 

[jayem]

The sunk cost fallacy is also a likely factor in the denial of Joe Biden’s win. In business economics, it’s a fancy term for throwing good money after bad. A company spends a lot of money on a product that turns out to be a lemon. But instead of cutting their losses, they mistakenly keep pouring in money and effort to support it. They can’t accept that it’s a lost cause. We’re seeing the same phenomenon in politics. Trump’s true believers have such an enormous emotional investment in the man, that they’re blinded to reality. So they sink time and energy into wild unsupported allegations and nefarious conspiracy theories to explain his loss. It’s just too psychologically painful to accept that Donald Trump was simply defeated by a majority of the voters.

Sunk cost fallacy

 

[whatbogsends]

That spin has been refuted numerous times but some folks won't accept that court cases proceed apace "fast track"

Listen to Jenna Ellis: Fake news media isn't a court of law | Sara Carter Show | Podcasts | iHeartRadio

No, the 30+ cases thrown out in courts of law are courts of law.

Meanwhile, more:

Joe Biden won illegal votes from thousands of noncitizens, study shows - Washington Times

Meanwhile, you post more unsubstantiated fake news.

 

[Michael]

I've been told repeatedly on this forum that the USA is not a democracy.

True. If we were a true democracy Trump would never have been President to begin with. Even still, Trump lost not only the popular vote in 2020, he lost the electoral college this time too, by the same margin he won by last time. When he won the electoral college he called it a "landslide victory". Now however he's acting like a banana republic dictator and trying to overturn the election. How sad. Trump has done more to undermine and damage our Republic than any foreign government.

 

[Michael]

The sunk cost fallacy is also a likely factor in the denial of Joe Biden’s win. In business economics, it’s a fancy term for throwing good money after bad. A company spends a lot of money on a product that turns out to be a lemon. But instead of cutting their losses, they mistakenly keep pouring in money and effort to support it. They can’t accept that it’s a lost cause. We’re seeing the same phenomenon in politics. Trump’s true believers have such an enormous emotional investment in the man, that they’re blinded to reality. So they sink time and energy into wild unsupported allegations and nefarious conspiracy theories to explain his loss. It’s just too psychologically painful to accept that Donald Trump was simply defeated by a majority of the voters.

Sunk cost fallacy

The reality is that Trump was defeated by a majority of voters *both* times. In this case he lost not only the popular vote (by 5 million votes) as he lost the popular vote in the last election, but he also lost the electoral college by a wide margin this time.

Trump is like a spoiled child that never learned to play nice with others.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Then the Trump side needs to offer evidence in a court of law.

If you're selected as juror, you'll be shown everything

No, the 30+ cases thrown out in courts of law are courts of law.

spin - judges can dismiss cases once an understanding has been reached between parties

meanwhile, you post more unsubstantiated fake news.

Truthful facts:
Election 2020 Map Data (theepochtimes.com)

 

[dzheremi]

If you're selected as juror, you'll be shown everything



spin - judges can dismiss cases once an understanding has been reached between parties



Truthful facts:
Election 2020 Map Data (theepochtimes.com)
View attachment 289264

The Epoch Times is a literal cult's mouthpiece. The fact that it has caught on with Trump supporters and many in the conspiratorial far right wing of American politics is quite strange, but the point is that it is in no way a reliable news source on anything at all.

Canadian conservative commentator and Washington Post columnist J.J. McCullough breaks it down pretty well here:

 

[Archivist]

If you're selected as juror, you'll be shown everything

Except these were not jury trials. They were before a judge, no significant evidence was shown and they were thrown out.

spin - judges can dismiss cases once an understanding has been reached between parties

But these cases weren't dismissed because the parties had reached an understanding. In the Federal case in Pennsylvania the judge specifically wrote that "this court has been presented with strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations. In the United States of America, this cannot justify the disenfranchisement of a single voter, let alone all the voters of its sixth most populated state."

Truthful facts:
Election 2020 Map Data (theepochtimes.com)
View attachment 289264

Except this map is neither truthful, nor is it factual.

 

[com7fy8]

“If President Trump comes out and says: ‘Guys, I have irrefutable proof of fraud, the courts won’t listen, and I’m now calling on Americans to take up arms,’ we would go,” said Fryar

There are cult leaders whose people put them above question.

There are mainstream Catholic and Protestant groups who can include members who put their leaders above question. It seems that even whole congregations including professionals have not been able to tell the difference between a predator . . . right in their pulpits . . . versus someone who ministers God's own love.

And ones of these are capable of using force and violence.

Communist activists have used force and violence, and have had many followers.

So, being willing to fight does not prove you are right . . . right??

What did Jesus say about if His servants would fight for Him in this world?

"Jesus answered, 'My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fit, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.'" (John 18:36)

In case Jesus really means His kingdom and His ways are better than what fighting can get . . . then ones willing to kill are connected to a different system, which will help them find excuses and ways to kill and force people, only to get what is so inferior.

But God's word says >

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

But yes there are Bible claiming people who use force and killing, or would. For only one example > for a while, the southern United States had a culture which was involved with using slaves. And how did ones get those slaves? They used African natives of one tribe's village to raid the villages of other tribes, if I remember and understood right what I read; and they killed people and kidnapped people who were then sold for America's slave use. Now, I do not know if southerners realized that murder and kidnapping was the means for getting slaves, but it is said ones in the South tortured and killed their slaves. So, yes someone is not automatically right just because he or she claims the Bible.

But in America's culture, now, plenty of people fool other people. Ones marry ones, and then find out they do not even know who they married. So, it is common that some person can fool others into supposing he or she is really someone else.

And ones get even evidence against their own selves, and they can deny it is true. Ones, then, can be in denial about the evidence about someone else, too.

But "God resists the proud" > in James 4:6, 1 Peter 5:5.

God knows who is for real and who is not. Plus, we now have God effectively resisting whomever He knows is merely a proud person. Plus, we can make sure with God about who to trust, and how it is good to trust each one.

Jesus did not say He would resort to violence if He was rejected . . . by the way. And Jesus now has gotten more than all conquerors combined have ever gotten by means of violence and deceit and control > and with Jesus we share in all this good ! ! !

"Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us." (Romans 8:37)

Our ways with God get so much more and better, than what conquerors can get with their methods.

 

[Bobber]

Then the Trump side needs to offer evidence in a court of law. They have not done that. Trump's case was thrown out with prejudice in a Federal court in Pennsylvania because no evidence was offered to back his claims. The judge is that case wrote “This court was unable to find any case in which a plaintiff has sought such a drastic remedy in the constest of an election, in terms of the sheer volume of votes asked to be invalidated."

And is the process of going to the Courts over as yet?

 

[Archivist]

And is the process of going to the Courts over as yet?

Do you watch the news? If so then you should know that Trump has appealed the PA decision. But if his lawyers continue to present no evidence he isn’t going to get anyplace.

Oh, and Trump lost another case today before the PA Supreme Court.