Why people loot

[Credos4Christ]

I'm not the one saying certain colors are doing this or that... That's not me...

You should not be doubling down on this, while simultaneously saying: "The concepts at play here of provoking further tensions isn't a new tactic".

I'm sorry, am I meant to apologize for saying that political radicals are known to manipulate tension to drive a narrative?

There's a plethora of historical situations in which this has occurred, let alone in the U.S within the past few decades.

Again, let me clarify, I am not saying Black protesters are incapable of partaking in the rioting and looting, but I am saying many white individuals associated with extremist groups are stimulating violence as a red herring.

 

[Landon Caeli]

I'm sorry, am I meant to apologize for saying that political radicals are known to manipulate tension to drive a narrative?

There's a plethora of historical situations in which this has occurred, let alone in the U.S within the past few decades.

Again, let me clarify, I am not saying Black protesters are incapable of partaking in the rioting and looting, but I am saying many white individuals associated with extremist groups are stimulating violence as a red herring.

I wasn't a fan of the way you put it the first time, identifying people by the color of their skin. If you want to change it to "political radicals" now and not white people, then that's acceptable.

...It just doesn't help people like me to see the demonizing of other people by their skin color, when all I want is to feel united at this time.

I hope you can understand the optimism of my nature, regardless of whether it's rooted in reality or imagination.

 

[Landon Caeli]

I think it's much more beneficial for everyone to agree that all protesters and rioters are just simply protesters and rioters, not separated by tribe or skin, but exist together as one, regardless.

...Otherwise we just play into the race problem ourselves, IMO... When instead we could begin the healing process by working together in a more united way.

 

[sunshineforJesus]

I think the reason they are looting is since they are taking advantage of an already awful situation
and think they can get away with it.

 

[Credos4Christ]

I wasn't a fan of the way you put it the first time, identifying people by the color of their skin. If you want to change it to "political radicals" now and not white people, then that's acceptable.

...It just doesn't help people like me to see the demonizing of other people by their skin color, when all I want is to feel united at this time.

I hope you can understand the optimism of my nature, regardless of whether it's rooted in reality or imagination.

The reason I chose the word "white" was to underscore that these provocateurs are largely elements of white supremacist groups trying to appropriate the narrative and further the idea that Black men are inherently more violent.

I agree that unity and coming together are important factors in reconciling the situation, but detracting from the conversation to focus on the rioting and looting rather than the broader issue at hand (e.g. racial injustices, undue police violence, etc.) seems like an ineffectual way to achieve that: rather than addressing people's primary concerns, it continues tensions by accusing protesters of being "thugs" (in the eloquent words of Pres. Trump).

I think the reason they are looting is since they are taking advantage of an already awful situation
and think they can get away with it.

Some most certainly are.

Another possible explanation might be the lost sense of consequences. Consider how many people have lost family, been laid off, etc., and now think about this final match set to a powder keg. I do think, as I said before, some people are simply exploiting this vulnerable situation (some, even, with political motivations), but I think overall muddying the waters is an irresponsible approach and we have to center ourselves on the catalyst for this unrest in the first place. That's how we move forward with reforms that not only quell public anger, but also make meaningful changes.

 

[Landon Caeli]

The reason I chose the word "white" was to underscore that these provocateurs are largely elements of white supremacist groups trying to appropriate the narrative and further the idea that Black men are inherently more violent.

I agree that unity and coming together are important factors in reconciling the situation, but detracting from the conversation to focus on the rioting and looting rather than the broader issue at hand (e.g. racial injustices, undue police violence, etc.) seems like an ineffectual way to achieve that: rather than addressing people's primary concerns, it continues tensions by accusing protesters of being "thugs" (in the eloquent words of Pres. Trump).

You say: 'these provocateurs are "largely" elements of white supremacist groups'. I find that to be an inaccurate assessment. It certainly isn't true here on the West coast.

...I mean, if that's something you want to talk about, then that's fine, I'm not trying to prevent that at all -I just don't want non-Americans to read this and think that a substantial majority of looters and riots are constructed or carried out by white supremacists, because that's just not the truth.

Rioters are just rioters, and looters are just looters.

 

[Credos4Christ]

You say: 'these provocateurs are "largely" elements of white supremacist groups'. I find that to be an inaccurate assessment. It certainly isn't true here on the West coast.

Did you read any of the sources I linked?

If need be, I can provide more.

I'm sorry to say but anecdotes about a specific occurrence in California does not a rebuttal make. It's just that - an anecdote. There are coordinated efforts by white supremacist outfits to co opt the justified anger people feel for expressly political purposes. That was my statement. End of. I've already clarified that I don't believe, nor should anyone with a head on their shoulders, that all of the riots can be attributed to white supremacists or that anyone who is Black is incapable of partaking in them.

The conclusion that "rioters are just rioters, and looters are just looters" is reductionist, which is the part of this conversation I find frustrating. There are many moving pieces to this situation amid an already overwhelming crisis in the COVID-19 pandemic. It's not conducive to the overall assessment of what's happening in our society to reduce everything to "thieves are thieves" and "fighters are fighters."

 

[Gr8Grace]

Alright. I’m not doing that. I’m not into conspiracies as I have had bad experiences with them with family.

Just asking questions. Not saying I am right........Most people have stopped asking questions. And this one is full of holes.

 

[Gr8Grace]

Ummm, what? Is there a resource where all of these theories are being compiled or detailed? I haven't heard any of this.

There are lots of them. We just have to discern. And first and foremost is the fact that the media isn't going to give us the full story.

 

[Michie]

There are lots of them. We just have to discern. And first and foremost is the fact that the media isn't going to give us the full story.

You need to give us a rundown of that video before any of us play it.

 

[Gr8Grace]

You need to give us a rundown of that video before any of us play it.

The video is a black womens perspective on the death of George Floyd. And she also goes into the death of the black retired police chief. Killed by rioters while trying to protect a business.

Candace Owens is a American commentator

 

[Landon Caeli]

Did you read any of the sources I linked?

If need be, I can provide more.

I'm sorry to say but anecdotes about a specific occurrence in California does not a rebuttal make. It's just that - an anecdote. There are coordinated efforts by white supremacist outfits to co opt the justified anger people feel for expressly political purposes. That was my statement. End of. I've already clarified that I don't believe, nor should anyone with a head on their shoulders, that all of the riots can be attributed to white supremacists or that anyone who is Black is incapable of partaking in them.

The conclusion that "rioters are just rioters, and looters are just looters" is reductionist, which is the part of this conversation I find frustrating. There are many moving pieces to this situation amid an already overwhelming crisis in the COVID-19 pandemic. It's not conducive to the overall assessment of what's happening in our society to reduce everything to "thieves are thieves" and "fighters are fighters."

We have to use anecdotal evidence, what else is there, considering there are no statistics on this..?

With that in mind, I'm just going to state that there were *not* large numbers of coordinated efforts by "white supremacists"... It just isn't so. And I highly doubt you can prove otherwise, but I'd love to see you try.

 

[DaveISBA]

By profit do you mean "get a TV" or something like that?

I would say that many (but not all) of them have a lot of pent up anger and violence is the immediate means that they are using to express it. If a man insults my wife to my face, I know that there may be peaceful means to address the issue, but it should not come as a surprise if I put my hands on him. To a certain extent I think you are seeing the same thing but on a macro scale. I'm not sure if the motive is really to "get a TV" per-se for many people. Stealing or other forms of violence could be the means by which they feel like they can get back at a society that they feel oppresses them.

Now, I think that is misguided, but I think its somewhat more complicated than that the motive is purely profit.

But if a man insults your wife you then don't go loot and destroy your own property and burn down your own house?
The suggestion "I think its somewhat more complicated than that the motive is purely profit." I don't think is on the minds of those who've had loved ones killed and injured, businesses looted and destroyed, neighborhoods systematically decimated then having some suggest it's a form of getting back at society? I've destroyed my own neighborhood.. that will show the social elitists!

 

[Swag365]

But if a man insults your wife you then don't go loot and destroy your own property and burn down your own house?
The suggestion "I think its somewhat more complicated than that the motive is purely profit." I don't think is on the minds of those who've had loved ones killed and injured, businesses looted and destroyed, neighborhoods systematically decimated then having some suggest it's a form of getting back at society? I've destroyed my own neighborhood.. that will show the social elitists!

I'm not sure where you are going with this. I don't agree with the conduct. That is why I said they are "misguided". Have a nice day.

 

[Credos4Christ]

We have to use anecdotal evidence, what else is there, considering there are no statistics on this..?

With that in mind, I'm just going to state that there were *not* large numbers of coordinated efforts by "white supremacists"... It just isn't so. And I highly doubt you can prove otherwise, but I'd love to see you try.

I appreciate your insistence that I didn't already send proof, but I'm afraid I'll have to implore you to scroll back a page and click the links. You'll know they're links because they start with "http" and they're highlighted in blue. Once you've read them, get back to me.

 

[Landon Caeli]

I appreciate your insistence that I didn't already send proof, but I'm afraid I'll have to implore you to scroll back a page and click the links. You'll know they're links because they start with "http" and they're highlighted in blue. Once you've read them, get back to me.

I just finished reading your articles. The only evidence you provided was a alleged story about *two* white men stealing liquor after a store had been looted...

Billions of dollars in damage across the United States, and you've provided evidence for *two* white men.

...You're going to need to provide real numbers if you expect anyone to take your argument seriously. Rumors alone don't cut it.

 

[Credos4Christ]

I just finished reading your articles. The only evidence you provided was a alleged story about *two* white men stealing liquor after a store had been looted...

Billions of dollars in damage across the United States, and you've provided evidence for *two* white men.

...You're going to need to provide real numbers if you expect anyone to take your argument seriously. Rumors alone don't cut it.

Hmm. Interesting. Where just a moment you said we didn't have statistics available on this and anecdotes needed to be relied on, you're now making the claim that we in fact do need statistics because anecdotes aren't enough. Fascinating!

Maybe a little insight from the Anti-Defamation League will clean our lenses here...

In some cases, peaceful protests have been met with excessive police force. There have also been widespread incidents of violence and property destruction. And while some of this chaos may be an expression of protesters’ despair and anger against America’s long history of racism and inequality, it is important to note that antiracists are not the only – or even primary – cause of these incidents.

While the majority of protests around the country have been peaceful and focused on opposing police brutality and systemic racism, some individuals and groups, including a scattering of extremists, are taking full advantage of a national crisis to advance their own violent agendas.

...And the article goes on to describe specific incidents from around the country ranging from white supremacist recruitment campaigns to counter-protests to Hitler salutes on American streets and so on and so forth.

Now the article does also say that it shouldn't be said that white supremacists are "taking the lead," and that American citizens are "so fundamentally outraged" that they'll, in effect, put everything on the line. But, what is worth of noting here is that the article does also provide some understanding of how, as with most unrest (not just in the U.S but in the world in general), elements of fringe groups in society will prick protesters with a thorn to agitate more unrest and accelerate the violence to achieve a political end.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Hmm. Interesting. Where just a moment you said we didn't have statistics available on this and anecdotes needed to be relied on, you're now making the claim that we in fact do need statistics because anecdotes aren't enough. Fascinating!

I never said anecdotes needed to be relied on, I was merely pointing out that it's all we've got. Point being, is that if you don't have the statistics, which you don't, then just don't make the claim. Or if you must, then at least allow others to give their opinions too.

 

[Credos4Christ]

I never said anecdotes needed to be relied on, I was merely pointing out that it's all we've got. Point being, is that if you don't have the statistics, which you don't, then just don't make the claim. Or if you must, then at least allow others to give their opinions too.

It is not my intention to say you can't have an opinion on this. In fact, I've been very carefully attempting to have this conversation precisely because I think having these conversations is important. And, furthermore, to have them, we need everyone at the table - including people who may disagree with one another.

I'm not trying to make grandiose claims about the significance of white supremacy here, I'm merely stating it's a pattern that has been seen across decades of history in various social movements and we're seeing it today also. I don't believe all of the rioting and looting is perpetrated by the Black Lives Matter movement nor do I feel it's all white supremacists, but the latter is certainly a big contributor as the ADL report can show.

 

[Landon Caeli]

It is not my intention to say you can't have an opinion on this. In fact, I've been very carefully attempting to have this conversation precisely because I think having these conversations is important. And, furthermore, to have them, we need everyone at the table - including people who may disagree with one another.

I'm not trying to make grandiose claims about the significance of white supremacy here, I'm merely stating it's a pattern that has been seen across decades of history in various social movements and we're seeing it today also. I don't believe all of the rioting and looting is perpetrated by the Black Lives Matter movement nor do I feel it's all white supremacists, but the latter is certainly a big contributor as the ADL report can show.

We have to be careful what goes into the history books, because it *has* to be true. If there were a total of 10 white supremacists belonging to white supremacist groups, provoking riots or looting, then it shouldn't be included in history, as it's just a tiny fraction of the thousands of others.