Why people loot

Jipsah

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I'm not sure if the motive is really to "get a TV" per-se for many people. Stealing or other forms of violence could be the means by which they feel like they can get back at a society that they feel oppresses them.
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Coould be. But I'm betting that there's a lot more looting at electronics stores and other sellers of high-end consumer goods. Lessee, does Bob want to Send A Message To The Powers That Be, or does Bob want an 84 inch 4K smart TV? Hmmmm...

I'm betting it's the TV.
 
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Would it have been a sin if someone had shot Derek Chauvin, after Floyd went limp?
One of the police officers at the scene should have ordered him to cease and desist. If he refused the officer should have pulled his service revolver and, if necessary, should have shot Chauvin. Instead three officers watched a murder in progress and did nothing to stop it.
 
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Jipsah

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. As a black person myself, I have honestly had very few positive interactions with police.
As a white/Asian person, neither have I. Primarily because if the police are there, there's usually some unpleasant reason for it. The coppers very seldom show up just to hang out and tell funny stories.

Most of the time they have been extremely rude and belligerent to me, almost as if they want to incite me into a confrontation.
A lot of times people bring that with them. I had a particularly funny (to me) experience like that when a cop came by my store to ask if we'd seen a suspect in a robbery in the area. Somehow my friend got the idea that the cop suspected him of being the crook, and from that point on he interpreted everything the cop said to him as some kind of veiled threat, or goading of some sort. To me they were just cop questions of the "seen anyone who fits that description?" genre, which given the crime rate in the area we got pretty regularly. (Sometimes we actually knew who they were after!) My friend was the duck out of water, knew nothing about life as a downtown merchant, and was more than a little paranoid. He took offense at everything, I found nothing to take offense about. Not saying thaty's been your experience, simply saying that we all bring our own prejudices to the table.
 
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Jipsah

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It could have been worse. It could have been mass shootings of white people as an attempt at genocide.
That sort of thing usually dies aborning with the realization that such a thing would be more suicide than genocide.

...Genocide has historically failed.
A foregone conclusion if a small percentage of the population decides to do away with the majority of the population.
 
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Swag365

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As a white/Asian person, neither have I. Primarily because if the police are there, there's usually some unpleasant reason for it. The coppers very seldom show up just to hang out and tell funny stories.

A lot of times people bring that with them. I had a particularly funny (to me) experience like that when a cop came by my store to ask if we'd seen a suspect in a robbery in the area. Somehow my friend got the idea that the cop suspected him of being the crook, and from that point on he interpreted everything the cop said to him as some kind of veiled threat, or goading of some sort. To me they were just cop questions of the "seen anyone who fits that description?" genre, which given the crime rate in the area we got pretty regularly. (Sometimes we actually knew who they were after!) My friend was the duck out of water, knew nothing about life as a downtown merchant, and was more than a little paranoid. He took offense at everything, I found nothing to take offense about. Not saying thaty's been your experience, simply saying that we all bring our own prejudices to the table.
Yes, yes, unpleasant reasons. Such as being young, black, and standing outside.

Stop-and-frisk in New York City - Wikipedia

In 2016, a reported 12,404 stops were made under the stop-and-frisk program. The stop-and-frisk program has previously taken place on a much wider scale. Between 2003 and 2013, over 100,000 stops were made per year, with 685,724 people being stopped at the height of the program in 2011. The program became the subject of a racial profiling controversy. Ninety percent of those stopped in 2017 were African-American or Latino, mostly aged 14–24. Seventy percent of those stopped were later found to be innocent.[1][clarification needed] By contrast, 54.1% of the population of New York City in 2010 was African-American or Latino;[2] however, 74.4% of individuals arrested overall were of those two racial groups.[3]
 
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Swag365

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All sin indicates a depraved heart. That said, the notion that looting is somehow okay because everyone sins is outrageous and indicative of belief in the carnal christian heresy.
That is not an answer to the question. When you sin, does that mean you hate God? It seems that this standard applies to other people, and not yourself. What do we call such a person who applies standards to others that he does not apply to himself?

And I did not state or imply that looting is OK, so that is irrelevant.
 
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Jipsah

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Yes, yes, unpleasant reasons. Such as being young, black, and standing outside.
OK, devil's advocate here, but why not Asians? Sure, there are comparatuve few of us, but we don't seem to attract police attention. As my family has learned durng the Great Covid 19 Massacre, we're just as likely to face racist attack by non-Asians (Virus paranoia directed at Asians appears to be as prevalent amongst blacks as whites, while for same reason Latijnos seem to be immune. Strictly anecdotal, or course, TIFWIW) as anyone else, the cops seem to ignore us unless there's some specific reason not to (90 in a 45, for instance). I suspect a cultural reason there (ours, not their's). Just saying.

Between 2003 and 2013, over 100,000 stops were made per year, with 685,724 people being stopped at the height of the program in 2011. The program became the subject of a racial profiling controversy. Ninety percent of those stopped in 2017 were African-American or Latino, mostly aged 14–24. Seventy percent of those stopped were later found to be innocent.
But aren't you in the least horrified that a full 30% were not? That almost 1 in 3 of the people who were randomly stopped had evidence of criminal conduct?

And there's the cultural factor I spoke of earlier. We're brought up with the idea that there are a lot of things that come under the heading of "we don't do that", with we being our family, we as Koreans (fun fact - my dad plainly considered us kids white, my mom just as plainly considered us Korean, and that aplied to our extended families as well. So yeah we Koreans.), we as our church, etc. I think maybe we, at least to some extent, see ourselves that way, so we really don't do those things. I think that becomes "they don't do that" from others dealing with us as well. We're just not the usual suspects, and I think you find that reflected in crime stats.

By contrast, 54.1% of the population of New York City in 2010 was African-American or Latino;[2] however, 74.4% of individuals arrested overall were of those two racial groups.[3]
My conclusion then is to arrest more white people. OK, not realy. The question is whether or not the arest percentages actually correspond to the number crimes committed. If not, then yeah, y'all are being put upon. But if they do, then y'all have a serious problem that all the social/societal stuff in the world isn't gonna cure until somebody figures out why.
 
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Swag365

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OK, devil's advocate here, but why not Asians? Sure, there are comparatuve few of us, but we don't seem to attract police attention. As my family has learned durng the Great Covid 19 Massacre, we're just as likely to face racist attack by non-Asians (Virus paranoia directed at Asians appears to be as prevalent amongst blacks as whites, while for same reason Latijnos seem to be immune. Strictly anecdotal, or course, TIFWIW) as anyone else, the cops seem to ignore us unless there's some specific reason not to (90 in a 45, for instance). I suspect a cultural reason there (ours, not their's). Just saying.
It is likely that police do not target Asians because you have lower levels of crime compared to other ethnic groups. There may other historical factors at play as well.

But aren't you in the least horrified that a full 30% were not? That almost 1 in 3 of the people who were randomly stopped had evidence of criminal conduct?
Yes, it is a sad fact. I am black, and it is true that blacks commit disproportionate levels of crime, in comparison to other ethnic groups.

I also happen to be a law-abiding citizen. Now, for the police to stop me, put me against the wall, and subject me to a search, search my car, for no other apparent reason than that the color of my skin is the same as other people who commit crime, is racism. And things like that are quite prevalent among police. The fact that the ethnic group to which I belong has higher crime rates does not justify violating my rights as an individual.

I don't buy into the notion that the vast majority of police are good, and that it is only just a few bad apples who do not act appropriately. This was the original point.

And there's the cultural factor I spoke of earlier. We're brought up with the idea that there are a lot of things that come under the heading of "we don't do that", with we being our family, we as Koreans (fun fact - my dad plainly considered us kids white, my mom just as plainly considered us Korean, and that aplied to our extended families as well. So yeah we Koreans.), we as our church, etc. I think maybe we, at least to some extent, see ourselves that way, so we really don't do those things. I think that becomes "they don't do that" from others dealing with us as well. We're just not the usual suspects, and I think you find that reflected in crime stats.
I'm not sure where you are going with this.

My conclusion then is to arrest more white people. OK, not realy. The question is whether or not the arest percentages actually correspond to the number crimes committed. If not, then yeah, y'all are being put upon. But if they do, then y'all have a serious problem that all the social/societal stuff in the world isn't gonna cure until somebody figures out why.
The solution is to apply the law fairly and to act in accordance with conduct appropriate for a police officer.
 
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Swag365

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@Jipsah By the way, what do think the arrest rates would be if the police did a random sweep of the average college campus? I'd be willing to bet that you would find more than 30% of the people involved in some sort of illegal activity (drugs and alcohol, in particular).
 
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Redwingfan9

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That is not an answer to the question. When you sin, does that mean you hate God? It seems that this standard applies to other people, and not yourself. What do we call such a person who applies standards to others that he does not apply to himself?

And I did not state or imply that looting is OK, so that is irrelevant.
You're reading that into my comment because you want to defend looters. The reality is that anyone looting is breaking at a minimum two commandments: thou shall not steal and thou shall not covet. There is no justification for such lawlessness.
 
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Swag365

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You're reading that into my comment because you want to defend looters. The reality is that anyone looting is breaking at a minimum two commandments: thou shall not steal and thou shall not covet. There is no justification for such lawlessness.
Nonsense. I do not want to defend looters. Nor is there any justification for lawlessness. Is there any justification for the sins that you commit?

What you wrote is that they hate God. This is what I have an issue with, not the fact that you disagree with them looting. I disagree with them looting as well.

You do not know that they hate God. Nor does the fact that they sin mean that they hate God.

I'd be willing to be that you have broken two of God's commands as well. Does that mean that you hate God?
 
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Redwingfan9

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Nonsense. I do not want to defend looters. Nor is there any justification for lawlessness. Is there any justification for the sins that you commit?

What you wrote is that they hate God. This is what I have an issue with, not the fact that you disagree with them looting. I disagree with them looting as well.

You do not know that they hate God. Nor does the fact that they sin mean that they hate God.

I'd be willing to be that you have broken two of God's commands as well. Does that mean that you hate God?
When you're openly and publicly flouting God's law and celebrating your lawlessness then yeah, you hate God. There was a time in church history when that would have been obvious to everyone.
 
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Swag365

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When you're openly and publicly flouting God's law and celebrating your lawlessness then yeah, you hate God.
No, all sins are public to God, including yours and mine. He sees all of them.

There was a time in church history when that would have been obvious to everyone.
Oh really? What year was that?
 
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Broken Fence

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JacksBratt

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I'm not condoning what's going on with the riots and destruction, but at the same time, what good are the peaceful protests going to do? They just look and laugh and them as they assemble. I think it's time for another strategy for those that want change. And for that to happen, I think there first there needs to be a main leader stand up that has
credibility and influence that can be a voice.

I'd like to see Barack Obama take a role like Martin Luther King Jr. did. But Jr. was a saved man and I don't think Barack is regenerated (yet). Nor do I think he would be willing to take a position or role lower than what he's already accomplished being President.
Most of the time... violent and "non peaceful" protests... commit acts and break laws that are, combined, worse than the event that triggered them.

Yes, a man was killed by a man who was a police officer. Others aided him. This is an atrocity... The police force had knowledge of this man's historical issues and didn't do enough to avoid this sad event.

The people have been charged and will face justice.

People are killed every day... some times the guilty never face justice.

To go and disgrace your country by committing other multiple acts of crime and violence.. will not bring this man back.

Sadly, it won't change those out there who believe the same way that this guilty police officer thinks.
 
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Credos4Christ

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Look at all these white looters:

I'm charmed by your sarcasm, but let me clarify a few things:

One, I never stated no Black protesters were involved in looting.

Two, this Santa Monica looting spree is not the only of the many in the country that broke out following the peaceful demonstrations. Apart from the preferred arson of government buildings or property (like the police precinct in Minneapolis or police cruisers throughout the country), the government - both local and federal - has been eyeing potential extremists groups as plants among the protesters to sow doubt into the legitimacy of these demonstrations.

In the majority of cases being looked at further by law enforcement and the media, it seems white agitators were seizing their chance to cause tumult during a moment of weakness in their communities.

Here are some sources if you'd like to read them:
The extremists taking part in riots across the US: What we do and don't know - CNNPolitics
Riots, white supremacy, and accelerationism
https://www.revolt.tv/2020/6/2/21278508/white-rioters-looters-protests-review

The concepts at play here of provoking further tensions isn't a new tactic - it's been used for decades (at least) by political radicals to launch their ideology forward.
 
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Landon Caeli

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I'm charmed by your sarcasm, but let me clarify a few things:

One, I never stated no Black protesters were involved in looting.

Two, this Santa Monica looting spree is not the only of the many in the country that broke out following the peaceful demonstrations. Apart from the preferred arson of government buildings or property (like the police precinct in Minneapolis or police cruisers throughout the country), the government - both local and federal - has been eyeing potential extremists groups as plants among the protesters to sow doubt into the legitimacy of these demonstrations.

In the majority of cases being looked at further by law enforcement and the media, it seems white agitators were seizing their chance to cause tumult during a moment of weakness in their communities.

Here are some sources if you'd like to read them:
The extremists taking part in riots across the US: What we do and don't know - CNNPolitics
Riots, white supremacy, and accelerationism
https://www.revolt.tv/2020/6/2/21278508/white-rioters-looters-protests-review

The concepts at play here of provoking further tensions isn't a new tactic - it's been used for decades (at least) by political radicals to launch their ideology forward.

I'm not the one saying certain colors are doing this or that... That's not me...

You should not be doubling down on this, while simultaneously saying: "The concepts at play here of provoking further tensions isn't a new tactic". o_O
 
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nonaeroterraqueous

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I may be alone in this, but when I see the rioting and looting, my first thought is that we need more police violence.

It's possible that the order of events is reversed, that the riots are not a response to the police brutality, but that the reverse is true, or that the trend is cyclical. All I know is that they aren't convincing me that they're all just a bunch of innocent, wrongly mistreated citizens.

If they were mistreated, then the appropriate treatment might result in more crushed windpipes. There aren't enough police to tackle and restrain a mob that big. The only possible way to stop it is by doing the very thing that these miscreants pretend to protest. We're watching the burning of Rome, and we're fiddling with self-righteousness.
 
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Michie

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I may be alone in this, but when I see the rioting and looting, my first thought is that we need more police violence.

It's possible that the order of events is reversed, that the riots are not a response to the police brutality, but that the reverse is true, or that the trend is cyclical. All I know is that they aren't convincing me that they're all just a bunch of innocent, wrongly mistreated citizens.

If they were mistreated, then the appropriate treatment might result in more crushed windpipes. There aren't enough police to tackle and restrain a mob that big. The only possible way to stop it is by doing the very thing that these miscreants pretend to protest. We're watching the burning of Rome, and we're fiddling with self-righteousness.
I do not think we need more violence but I am getting tired of people being kowtowed into playing outside the rules when it comes to wanton destruction and violence. People are calling for defunding the police. That’s just insane. The police department needs to be reformed so there is not criminal activity taking place in the guise of a uniform. There is a serious deficit in the spine department right now. Fix what needs to be fixed. Treat people with equality and stop changing with the latest opinions that makes one acceptable. What is right is right and what is wrong is wrong. Develop a backbone and fix it. Come what may. Everyone is too busy covering their own backsides and not taking responsibility.
 
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