Just to clear up any confusion, to my knowledge I have never identified as a Democrat nor have I expressed love for Obama. I want that to be clear and not have someone else present my views for me.
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Why Obamacare is the best thing that's happened to this country in years
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AMDG
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Okay, you don't like Obama, what he's done to this country (destroy it), and you hate the destructive Obamacare. Got it. (Of course it's a bit confusing because in one of your posts you claimed to have voted for Obama and you defend him every inch of the way. You also defend the obviously destructive Obamacare and say that you do because of your view about God. Sounds almost like "Obama-speak"--in the face of reality of *seeing* the drones *right there* he tells us basically "these are not the drones you are looking for.")
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I haven't said anything you are claiming I have said here. Please post the quote where I said I voted for Obama for starters. I don't even think I have defended Obama "every inch of the way". I have spoken against lies and I have spoken against things said that I don't believe, but I have also been critical of Obama in the areas I think he has failed.
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AMDG
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There are too many for me to go through--they cover at least a month since that poll that no longer allowed OBOB to be a "safe haven". It's been one thing after another. One recent one was post #185 on the thread "Barack Obama is reelected President of the United States." Others included the fact that the Bishops website is wrong that orthodox Jews have joined Catholics in their fight for religious freedom. (You also called into question the veracity several law groups fighting for the unborn and religious freedom--and who is against the unborn--why Obama is, and so is his Obamacare.)
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MikeK
Traditionalist Catholic
His opposition to that was when you lied and stated that Orthodox Jew MDs were leaving the professions because of the HHS mandate. When challenged repeatedly, you refused to give your source. I remember it well, because it was one of the more glaring examples of refusing to admit error I'd ever seen. I intend to reference it when I start teaching my kids about morality and cognitive disonance.
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Here is what I said:
Assuming it is true, why would a non-Catholic care if he were the enemy of the Catholic Church? I certainly don't believe if I voted for Obama I would have turned my back on G-d.
Please show me in this sentence where I said I voted for Obama, loved Obama, or was a Democrat. I hope you have the integrity to do this.
I never said the website was wrong. I never claimed anything of the kind. I asked you to prove your statement, which I have quoted several times, that Orthodox Jewish doctors were planning to leave the medical profession.
I have stated my legal opinion on these matters. My legal opinion has to do with what I think will legally stand as Constitutional. I don't personally believe the mandate violates religious freedom, which is my opinion. I don't believe I have ever spoken in favor of abortion except in the case of the mother's life at risk in which case I have pointed out it is my religious view per rabbinic teaching.
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Thank you, Mike. I am glad that people are paying attention to what is going on and how I am being misrepresented. I will stand behind what I have said, or apologize if I have misspoken on occasion. I am tired of constantly asking someone for proof for their claims of what I have said, those requests to be ignored, and then those same false claims popping up on other threads.
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TheOtherHockeyMom
Contributor
Very few people posting on this thread love Obamacare. Some think it's a step in the right direction, some think that it has good parts, but problems in other areas. A discussion of what's wrong and right about it, backed by facts, and how to improve it is a worthy thing to have. Claims that Orthodox Jews will leave medicine, claims that the bill as passed is 2700 pages long, claims that it requires an ID implant, etc...are both untrue and derail the topic. If a post, book, blog, or group of doctors that make a youtube video can't get the basics right, it discredits the rest of their argument.
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MKJ
Contributor
I think everyone realizes what you have been saying. Probably even those who choose to willfully misrepresent what you've said. Given that those people willfully misrepresent almost everything, I wouldn't worry about them. It is annoying to keep having to defend against their slanders and untruths so that other people don't take them as fact though.
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MikeK
Traditionalist Catholic
I worry about what these consistent falsehoods are doing to the Body of Christ. There are lurkers who enter these forums, considering coming home to Catholocism. Instead of presenting Catholics as a group of rational, honest, caring human beings, some here seem through their statements and their refusal to accept correction and admit error to seek out every opportunity to create the impression that Catholics are serial liars and incapable of rational thought. I just don't get it. They leave so much mess for good people to clean up. One person lying about another's position, consistantly denying mathmatic truths, refusing to address concerns about their prefered Presidential candidates direct statements on abortion prefering instead to accept as factual the kind words a PAC said about him - that sort of thing undermines the efforts of many people who really do try to be honest and objective.
For the record, lots of leftists say dishonest or irational things too. I don't see them post here quite as often though.
I probably owe a certain amount of gratitude to persons who display the sort of behaviors we've been seeing. I was once a Republican. straight up, end of story, Republican. Almost as if by default, really. It took years of observing what the Limbaughs, Liddys, forumites and so on were doing to realise that I had been duped - that I was nothing more than a useful idiot. That discovery didn't feel good. I didn't want it to be true. I wanted to believe in a moral majority. I wanted to believe in mainstream politicians with a stated belief in limited government. Eventually, after much reflection, I got better. There is hope for these people. They might be in a very dark place right now, participating in evils without giving it a second thought - but until they breath their last, there is hope.
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I like some of those taxes.
Why would I be upset at people over 200k (250k if married) paying a bit more? I think they should pay more.
The FSA accounts are interesting, but perhaps the solution isn't unlimited FSA accounts, but cheaper access to Special Needs Education. I bet I won't see that proposed by the conservatives.
Also, I'm not going to trust information when it links to a page that proudly proclaims that if Keith Olbermann doesn't like them, they must be doing something right. If they don't like me, I'm probably doing something right.
By the way, there's still this matter of you misrepresenting my views. I would like that to be cleared up. Please provide either proof that I hold those views or retract your statements.
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Let's just say that's true:
What does that do to make them any more or less credible than he is?
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Wolseley
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I'm not saying it does. But I know little about them, and I know plenty about Olbermann---and I know Olbermann is a nut case. So if Olbermann doesn't like them, they're either right, or at least unbalanced in a direction other than he is, which, frankly, can't be too much of a bad thing.
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I'm not saying it does. But I know little about them, and I know plenty about Olbermann---and I know Olbermann is a nut case. So if Olbermann doesn't like them, they're either right, or at least unbalanced in a direction other than he is, which, frankly, can't be too much of a bad thing.
I'm sure they are right-wing. That doesn't make them correct.
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It doesn't make them incorrect, either.
No. Their statement doesn't make them right or wrong. However, knowing they are right-leaning and one of their problems is that it increases a certain tax on people who make over 200k, I am less inclined to trust them. I have no problem if people making over 200k have to put a bit more into the pot.
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SharonL
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I have come to the conclusion that both parties are way off course. Neither party is getting anything done but making up restrictive laws to put on the books, but not solving any of our problems. If there was some way we could tie their production to their salaries, I'll bet we could ge something done. I am so tired of hearing left wing and right wing. We are at a stalemate and I dont see anything moving for years to come.
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