Why no music in the church of Christ?

[Trailltrader]

If you haven't taken the time to read the book "You lost me"- in fact, by your statement you haven't even taken the time to read the blurb on it.

The church as a whole is dying. Legalistic, narrow minded thinking is what is driving away the 30 and below crowd away from the church in droves.

"You Lost Me" goes into details how and why the Church has screwed up massively.

Young people no longer look to their Elders for advice and wisdom; they go to Google and Yahoo, or their peers.

Young people no longer invest in decades of having a relationship when they can just "Tweet" someone.

You can say "Beware of Men's books" and I come back with "Beware of whats killing the Church because its dying"

This isn't theory, this isn't theology, this is real politicks as the Russians would say.

Example: The Mormons spent millions of dollars on California's Proposition 8 which was against homosexual marriage. While the bible is pretty straightforward the homosexuality is a big no-no the Mormon Church discovered that over 50% of their people were going to quit if that proposition passed.

This is why quietly the Mormons haven't said one word officially about homosexuality lately- they don't want to lose membership.

The Church of Christ and musical instruments is a pretty small potato if you think about it, when you look at the huge problem's that are facing the Church right now.

At this rate, according to what I've been able to figure out from Dr. John Calhoun's Behavioral Sink, it looks like John Lennon was right- the Church will be dead in 20, maybe 30 years max.

 

[notreligus]

The Churches of Christ did not begin until 1906. Before that this was the Disciples of Christ. The Disciples of Christ are still part of the Restoration Movement and they still have many congregations.

The Churches of Christ began as a split from the Disciples of Christ and one area of dispute was the use of musical intruments in worship. There were long-standing divisions and sentiments that lasted after the Civil War. The "northern" congregations were considered to be worldly. The "southern" congregations were mostly poor and rural and a piano would have been a luxury. The Disciples of Christ was the name given to this group originally by Alexander Campbell and they did use musical instruments. There was no issue concerning musical instruments in this group until some people made it an issue. Even Alexander Campbell's son is known to have stated that they should not split over the use of musical instruments. So, it seems that the Disciples were neutral about that with most advocating the use of instruments while a minority were opposed. At this point it is more of a traditional thing but I don't think they want to admit to that. The average member of the C of C has a very limited knowledge of the history of this group.

 

[abysmul]

I've never know of a CoC congregation that in any way reported to any larger organization or governing body, they simply are independent congregations. I've also never known any member of a CoC that told me my salvation was in danger for attending a worship service that used musical instruments (even though they choose not to).

There are CoC congregations locally that do use musical instruments.

 

[notreligus]

I've never know of a CoC congregation that in any way reported to any larger organization or governing body, they simply are independent congregations. I've also never known any member of a CoC that told me my salvation was in danger for attending a worship service that used musical instruments (even though they choose not to).

There are CoC congregations locally that do use musical instruments.

Some congregations are changing. However, there are still some ultra-conservative congregations that put musical instruments in the same category as kitchens and multiple communion cups. They think these things are forbidden or they are "not authorized."

 

[abysmul]

Some congregations are changing. However, there are still some ultra-conservative congregations that put musical instruments in the same category as kitchens and multiple communion cups. They think these things are forbidden or they are "not authorized."

As long as they don't try and bind that on other Christians... I don't have an issue with it. If they feel most comfortable worshiping the Lord with no musical instruments, or kitchens in their buildings, or with X number of communion cups... I say good for them.

 

[Steve.Page]

The Churches of Christ began long before 1906. 1906 is when they first showed up on the census. The restoration movement began somewhere around 1801. Check out the Cane Ridge revivals, that's where it really gained steam.

 

[Sasquatchit]

The Churches of Christ began long before 1906. 1906 is when they first showed up on the census. The restoration movement began somewhere around 1801. Check out the Cane Ridge revivals, that's where it really gained steam.

U sound like it was started in 1906, like it's man made, or something.

Try the 33 A.D., or so., this is the church that Jesus built! Most do Bible things, the Bible Way. Jesus is the author...not some man in 1906!!!

 

[Follower3]

Maybe someone already posted this, maybe I already posted this.
Psalm 33:2, Praise the Lord with the harp; make music to him on the ten stringed lyre. Sing to him a new song.

Now what crazy doctrine says you can't play an instrument?

 

[Trailltrader]

Maybe someone already posted this, maybe I already posted this.
Psalm 33:2, Praise the Lord with the harp; make music to him on the ten stringed lyre. Sing to him a new song.

Now what crazy doctrine says you can't play an instrument?

Uh, if you had read the previous posts you would have read the part about the discussion of how musical instrument's sounds carry much farther than the human voice and if you were a practicing Christian in the first century caught with said instruments you were executed- like the 5,000 Christians used for Nero's torches, or wild animal food in the coliseum.

That's where the "Sing to him a new song" (sans instruments?) comes in I suspect.

 

[Brother Bread]

We were always told "No wooden brothers In church"

 

[Sasquatchit]

The Churches of Christ began long before 1906. 1906 is when they first showed up on the census. The restoration movement began somewhere around 1801. Check out the Cane Ridge revivals, that's where it really gained steam.

Sorry, I'll correct my previous msg statement.
The church began before Christ died on the cross (I think that was called B.C.?). We were first called Christians in Antioch (Acts 11:26) .

I'm still confused as to why u think that the CoC began in the last 2 centuries? The CoC is based upon the first century church which is the church that Jesus built.

 

[Follower3]

We were always told "No wooden brothers In church"

verse please? Sounds like it is talking about idolatry.

 

[Follower3]

Uh, if you had read the previous posts you would have read the part about the discussion of how musical instrument's sounds carry much farther than the human voice and if you were a practicing Christian in the first century caught with said instruments you were executed- like the 5,000 Christians used for Nero's torches, or wild animal food in the coliseum.

That's where the "Sing to him a new song" (sans instruments?) comes in I suspect.

You can play instruments quietly as to not flood the human voice, and yes i read that thanks chief.

 

[Trailltrader]

I don't get the "wooden brothers" remark either. Is that like the "saying of the month" at a local church or a church camp? Like "B.I.B.L.E." kind of thing? I'm just asking

 

[Sasquatchit]

Very well, if you want a pattern..per the above scripture then I shall give you one.

It is a hard teaching to walk in the world and not be part of the world- curiously I've been studying the book "You Lost Me" which deals with situations similar to this!

The Senario:

Its Sunday morning, the year is AD30 and a group of Christians are in the catacombs below Rome praising God. They sing quietly because they know if they're discovered, its death.

Now, how far would you drag a drum, a piano, a harp, or lets face it- even a Kazoo if you knew it'd get you a spear in the back, or a sword in the side, or if the Centurion was REALLY upset decide to crucify you?

If you want an example of "common sense over scripture" from the Old Testament then use the example of where King David fed his troops from the Priests food? 1st Samuel 21:6

Context
David Takes the Consecrated Bread
…5David answered the priest and said to him, "Surely women have been kept from us as previously when I set out and the vessels of the young men were holy, though it was an ordinary journey; how much more then today will their vessels be holy?" 6So the priest gave him consecrated bread; for there was no bread there but the bread of the Presence which was removed from before the LORD, in order to put hot bread in its place when it was taken away. 7Now one of the servants of Saul was there that day, detained before the LORD; and his name was Doeg the Edomite, the chief of Saul's shepherds.…
Cross References

Matthew 12:3
He answered, "Haven't you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry?

Matthew 12:4
He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread--which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests.

Luke 6:3
Jesus answered them, "Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry?

Luke 6:4
He entered the house of God, and taking the consecrated bread, he ate what is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions."

Sorry, I don't see where any of the above has anything to do with the topic at hand?

 

[DerSchweik]

The Churches of Christ sing.

Many in the Churches of Christ believe that God clearly did not authorize the use of instruments in a worship setting. They believe in singing acapella only while in a worship service. I am a member of the Church of Christ. However, I regularly visit a CoC with a piano and my home CoC doesn't use one. I personally could care less either way.

I do enjoy hearing the collective voices without the piano.

For many Church of Christ members...this really isn't an issue one way or the other. For some it is.

Correct. I've been in the cofC for over 32 years and studied this in depth for myself. Some have become dogmatic about it, citing the usual verses and thereby turning it into some sort of a doctrine, but there is simply no justification for outlawing musical instruments in church.

That being said, I most definitely prefer acappella music over instruments.

The use of musical instruments runs the gamut from a simple guitar or maybe a piano to supplement the singing all the way to major musical stage productions with expensive and powerful sound systems.

What we KNOW we're supposed to do is worship Him; from the heart, out of our overflow of love for Him and one another.

I think He leaves it up to us to decide whether we want singing only, or singing + instruments. Singing, I would offer, seems to be a common denominator though. I don't see justification for say, instruments only, or even for choirs only (someone else singing).

Personally, musical instruments distract me. Major sound systems and stage productions have actually served to PREVENT people from singing - I was in one church where the use of ear plugs was almost mandatory if you wanted to keep your hearing - let alone hear yourself singing. I'm opposed to that.

We are to "sing to one another" too; we're not just singing to God. Singing is, in part, an act of encouragement to one another. Worship is NOT just an individual act. It's a corporate act when we're gathered together.

MOREOVER - worship is NOT entertainment. It is NOT the intent of "worship" that we be entertained by others, by "worship teams" or choirs or musicians. We do not sit in the pews as audiences of worship. We are to take part, each one of us - making a "joyful noise" to the Lord.

Bottom line, musical instruments are not prohibited in the NT. That being said, there is more encouragement towards singing than there is towards the use of instruments. Is that sufficient to make it doctrinal though? No.

 

[Trailltrader]

I must lovingly disagree somewhat- when I sing, it makes people believe satan is alive and well from the noise I make.

 

[DerSchweik]

I must lovingly disagree somewhat- when I sing, it makes people believe satan is alive and well from the noise I make.

LOL. When I became a Christian, there were about 800 people in our congregation; no instruments, and as a group we could really bring down the house with our singing. It was just amazing and so encouraging. We used to bring people from a local house that cared for individuals with Down's Syndrome. Most were between 20 and 40 years of age - and none had what could be considered beautiful voices. In fact, they gave new meaning to the phrase "make a joyful noise..." But they loved the Lord and they loved to sing - LOUD - and you know what? It didn't detract from the congregational singing one iota. Not one. Indeed, we all praised God for their "voices" because in God's chorus, there truly are no lousy voices.

...including yours.

...and mine

 

[DerSchweik]

Excerpts from the published book "Why I Am a Believer In Jesus"

I would like to consider one cult as an example. It is the ‘Church of Christ’! The first Jerusalem Church had all believers giving up their property and possession and sharing their needs in common. This particular denomination has given up musical instruments instead and has come with a claim that it represents the Church as envisaged by the Lord!

Its argument is that Jesus and the apostles never used any instruments in their worship and prayer! It is difficult to believe this whacky theory because they had swords with them (They resisted the arrest of Jesus), and, therefore, what makes them to think that they could not have had simple musical instruments in their ministry? Instruments are found in heaven! We are asked to pray for the will of God to prevail on earth as it is heaven (Matthew 6:10). Probably, these people may reject heaven because it is not free from musical instruments

“And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other” (Matthew 24:31). Obviously these people may ignore the trumpet call, besides salvation! These people seem to claim that they are genuinely continuing with the first Jerusalem Church! They are a classic example of self-claims on nominal basis.

The funny part is that these people sing from hymnal books that have been composed and set for instrumental accompaniment!

Another serious flaw in their doctrine is that children are sinless! At what age they become sinners is not defined, I suppose!

It would be appropriate if they re-designated their congregation as ‘church of Paul’ in tune with Pauline Christianity instead of making a tall claim as ‘Church of Christ’ with their nominal beliefs!

I'm not sure what part of the above is "excerpt" or your commentary, but apart from the instrumental music issue (which I think has been effectively answered at this point) let me make a couple of other points.

W/r to the charge of children being sinless - that's pure hogwash. Christians believe all men are born in sin - Adam's sin; I won't go into the Scriptures because there are too many that clearly address the issue (cf Rom 3:23, etc.). In all my years of hearing this absurdity I can only conclude that it comes from our position on who may be baptized into Christ and who is yet ineligible.

Catholics believe (rightly so) that we are born into the world as sinner. But their practice of baptizing infants on this basis is utterly wrong. We believe the proper candidate for baptism is one who believes in Jesus and who is faithfully prepared to give their life to Him. Infants clearly do not fit this criteria - for a host of reasons I hope are obvious.

The question remains, at what age is it possible for someone to become a Christian? Well clearly, there is no Scripture suggestive of any "age of eligibility" - but reason dictates there is a point at which one leaves "infancy" - or an inability to believe and becomes capable of believing - of understanding the gospel and its implications in our lives, of understanding the nature of sin and how we are sinners, of understanding Jesus' role as Savior, understanding why He had to die on the Cross and that we must receive Him as Lord and Savior to be saved.

Some call this the "age of accountability." The only Scripture I know of that remotely suggests such an age exists is in Isaiah 7:15f - "...before the boy will know enough to refuse evil and choose good..." While it is not definitive, it does give much weight to the concept we otherwise accept rationally, that there is a time in everyone's life when they know the difference between right and wrong and know to choose the one and reject the other.

Clearly, everyone reaches that point in their lives at different times, or ages, so defining a specific age is inappropriate.

How this translates into the cofC believing children are sinless remains an absurdity however. It's simply not true.

The question arises then what does God do with children who have yet to reach that age when they can discern the difference between good and evil and know enough to choose the one and reject the other? Are they sinners, born in Adam's sin? Yes. Are we all accountable for sins committed in ignorance? Yes. What then does God do with say, infants who die? I don't know; but I trust God and His justice. I'm mindful of what happened with David's child, taken from him after his sin with Bathsheba - 2 Sam 12:15-23 - verse 23: "...I shall go to him (the child) but he will not return to me." Jesus too had a particular affinity for the children "for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these..."

 

[Trailltrader]

This is true- if Christ didn't look at the heart he'd surely go blind from our sin