WHY MANY DON'T BELIEVE JESUS AS SAVIOR?

[now faith]

Hebrews 6: 4. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5. And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6. If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8. But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be Burned.

Revelation 3: 3. Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. 4. Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 5. He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. 6. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Your name is added to the lambs book upon salvation, Here we See Christ stating condition that it can be blotted out.
So much for predestination and once in grace always in grace.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Not by Reformation founders.
Is Micheal Servetus the heretic mentioned?
He simply disagreed with Calvin's doctrine.
Calvin has murdered 37 people according to the reformation society.
Other sources have the slaughter in Geneva at 55.
Calvin plagerized Augisitine of Hippo, and was influnced by his teaching.

Quote Wikipedia :
the subject of justification by faith alone. He defined justification as "the acceptance by which God regards us as righteous whom he has received into grace."[97] In this definition, it is clear that it is God who initiates and carries through the action and that people play no role; God is completely sovereign in salvation.[98] Near the end of the book, Calvin describes and defends the doctrine of predestination, a doctrine advanced by Augustine in opposition to the teachings of Pelagius. Fellow theologians who followed the Augustinian tradition on this point included Thomas Aquinas and Martin Luther,[99] though Calvin's formulation of the doctrine went further than the tradition that went before him.[100] The principle, in Calvin's words, is that "All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death."[101]

The final book describes what he considers to be the true Church and its ministry, authority, and sacraments. He denied the papal claim to primacy and the accusation that the reformers were schismatic. For Calvin, the Church was defined as the body of believers who placed Christ at its head. By definition, there was only one "catholic" or "universal" Church. Hence, he argued that the reformers "had to leave them in order that we might come to Christ."[102] The ministers of the Church are described from a passage from Ephesians, and they consisted of apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and doctors. Calvin regarded the first three offices as temporary, limited in their existence to the time of the New Testament. The latter two offices were established in the church in Geneva. Although Calvin respected the work of the ecumenical councils, he considered them to be subject to God's Word found in scripture. He also believed that the civil and church authorities were separate and should not interfere with each other.[103]

Unqoute.

To state you are a Calvinest , eludes to a follower of a man made dogma that has no value in God's Kingdom.
We are to follow Christ and Christ alone, we do not need any man teach us.

Times were different and the rule of law was different. Servetus broke the law and did what was considered in those times as a capital offence.

The Pilgrims of 17th Century America hanged women they considered witches, who were not witches at all. because any woman who was a bit eccentric was consider a witch.

So, should I quit the Presbyterian church because the Pilgrims (where the Presbyterian church originated) murdered innocent women?

The fact is that Calvin, acting by the rule of law of his time, probably did nothing illegal, and the decisions were most certainly not his alone.

 

[now faith]

Because of Calvin the purtian principle was implemented.
They believed in works based salvation murder of anyone they deemed a Heretic.
They believed that Blacks and other creeds were incapable of salvation.
Puritan theology is a poor reason to defend Calvinism, since this was the main doctrine of Puratians.

Non of it all is far from the tyranny of Rome, in belief and practice .

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Because of Calvin the purtian principle was implemented.
They believed in works based salvation murder of anyone they deemed a Heretic.
They believed that Blacks and other creeds were incapable of salvation.
Puritan theology is a poor reason to defend Calvinism, since this was the main doctrine of Puratians.

Non of it all is far from the tyranny of Rome, in belief and practice .

I've read the works of the principal Puritan authors, including the complete commentaries of Calvin and his institutes of religion, and I can't see in any of them the doctrine that you are saying they have.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Interesting discussion.

 

[now faith]

Several beliefs differentiated Puritans from other Christians. The first was their belief in predestination. Puritans believed that belief in Jesus and participation in the sacraments could not alone effect one's salvation; one cannot choose salvation, for that is the privilege of God alone. All features of salvation are determined by God's sovereignty, including choosing those who will be saved and those who will receive God's irresistible grace. The Puritans distinguished between "justification," or the gift of God's grace given to the elect, and "sanctification," the holy behavior that supposedly resulted when an individual had been saved; according to The English Literatures of America, "Sanctification is evidence of salvation, but does not cause it" (434). When William Laud, an avowed Arminian, became Archbishop of Canterbury in 1633, the Church of England began to embrace beliefs abhorrent to Puritans: a focus on the individual's acceptance or rejection of grace; a toleration of diverse religious beliefs; and an acceptance of "high church" rituals and symbols..

For more information, see also the following works suggested by EARAM-L members:

• Perry Miller's "The Marrow of Puritan Divinity" in Errand into the Wilderness (Cambridge: Harvard UP, 1956): 48-98.
• Emory Elliott, Power and the Pulpit in Puritan New England
• Charles Lloyd Cohen, "Covenant Psychology" in God's Caress: The Psychology of Puritan Religious Experience(Oxford and New York: Oxford UP, 1986)
• John von Rohr, The Covenant of Grace in Puritan Thought (Atlanta, GA: Scholars Press, 1986)
• Darrett Rutman, American Puritanism
• David Hall, The Faithful Shepherd
• David Hall, The Antinomian Controversy
• Sargent Bush, The Writings of Thomas Hooker
• Michael McGiffert, "Grace and Works: The Rise and Division of Covenant Divinity in Elizabethan Puritanism," Harvard Theological Review 75.4 (1982): 463-502.
• Amy Schrager Lang, Prophetic Woman
  
  Janice Knight, Orthodoxies in Massachusetts

 

[now faith]

• 
  The Anglican sermon is constructed on a symphonic scheme of progressively widening vision; it moves from point to point by verbal analysis, weaving larger and larger embroideries about the words of the text. The Puritan sermon quotes the text and "opens" it as briefly as possible, expounding circumstances and context, explaining its grammatical meanings, reducing its tropes and schemata to prose, and setting forth its logical implications; the sermon then proclaims in a flat, indicative sentence the "doctrine" contained in the text or logically deduced from it, and proceeds to the first reason or proof. Reason follows reason, with no other transition than a period and a number; after the last proof is stated there follow the uses or applications, also in numbered sequence, and the sermon ends when there is nothing more to be said. The Anglican sermon opens with a pianissimo exordium, gathers momentum through a rising and quickening tempo, comes generally to a rolling, organ-toned peroration; the Puritan begins with a reading of the text, states the reason in an order determined by logic, and the uses in an enumeration determined by the kinds of person in the throng who need to be exhorted or reproved, and it stops without flourish or resounding climax" (332-3).

• In a similar manner, Puritans preferred the plainness of the Geneva Bible to the rich language of the King James version.

• There is much more ,you can research virtually anywhere and find this theology.
• Source; public.wsu..edu

 

[now faith]

My net pad is acting up forgive if I double post.
My interest was sparked by a young man who is somewhat of a poet.
He asked a question, would you qoute Columbus to Cherokees?
Being of Cherokee hertiage I delved into this topic.

 

[now faith]

Unlike the scrolls of the Old Testament, and the Synopic Gospels ,as well as the Pauline Epistles .
The reformation era is much more recent in history.
Landing in America in the 1700s ,we have better documentation on various aspects of theology.
The London Baptist confession of Faith , the AntiBaptist and others.
As far as I'm concerned ,the return to God's Word in its fullness began with Westly and continued with the Spitural movement and various Great moves of the Spirit.
Asusa Street and other awaknings were instruments that gave us today's full Gospel.
Men like Kenyon, Lake ,Wigglesworth operated in the fullness of God, and did not impose human restraints on God or Gods Word.

 

[Si_monfaith]

YES THANK YOU THIS WAS MY POINT.
Predestined to have Christ as are saviour does not mean all will be saved.
If all are not saved then some must make a freewill choice to walkaway.
God does not make a man predestined to Hell.

Does Ephesians 1:4 say the chosen have a will which is free?

John 6:70
70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”

Did Judas have a will which was free?

 

[Si_monfaith]

Well because the Bible says so.

How many times does this passage have to be qouted before
Your Characterization of Ephesians 1 is flawed.
Paul was not saying all are predestined, in that all would be saved.
He was saying all were predestined to have a savior.
This would flaw Calvinest doctrine because it does not allow for those who are not predestined.
So you must use logic to comprehend the Authurs intention.
If what you perceive a text to be, but your preception is a logical fallacy , then you need to work on comprehension.

If eternal life could be lost is it eternal any more?

 

[Si_monfaith]

Does the transformation & conversion which God gives to His chosen as in Ephesians 1: 4 unfruitful and not genuine?

John 17:3: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
Can humans do something to bring about those apart from "knowing" Him?

Isn't Christ's acceptance based on God's election rather than human works?

 

[Si_monfaith]

Aren't you appealing to the wisdom and strength of people rather than help them know God's work in His people?

Isn't "seek God" an appeal to human efforts?

 

[Si_monfaith]

You're demonstrating faith in God's Word about the work of the Spirit.

What else? Is faith based on human efforts?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

What else? Is faith based on human efforts?

Faith is what we do in support of what we believe. When I sat in the church and heard the gospel and believed that I needed to walk up, pray the sinners prayer and accept Christ as my Savior, if I had remained seated and not done anything about it, then my believe would have just been a mental assent and not faith and I would have remained dead in my sins and on my way to hell.
But I got up, went forward, prayed the sinners prayer and accepted Christ. Doing that, I put legs to my belief and activated it. So, my belief turned into faith.

When Jesus told the lame man to take up his bed and walk, the lame man would have believed that the healing would come if he did that - because Jesus said it. But if he kept laying there, he would still be lame. It was when he made the effort to get up on his feet - activating his belief through faith, that the healing happened.

James says that faith without works is dead. He is not talking about using human effort to please God, because that results in self-righteousness. If James approaches a guy in a wheelchair, prays for him for healing, and the guy says, "I believe that I am healed!" James would say, "Why are you still sitting there if you believe you are healed? You say you have faith to be healed? Then let me see your faith by you getting up out of your wheelchair and walking!"

 

[Si_monfaith]

Faith is what we do in support of what we believe. When I sat in the church and heard the gospel and believed that I needed to walk up, pray the sinners prayer and accept Christ as my Savior, if I had remained seated and not done anything about it, then my believe would have just been a mental assent and not faith and I would have remained dead in my sins and on my way to hell.
But I got up, went forward, prayed the sinners prayer and accepted Christ. Doing that, I put legs to my belief and activated it. So, my belief turned into faith.

When Jesus told the lame man to take up his bed and walk, the lame man would have believed that the healing would come if he did that - because Jesus said it. But if he kept laying there, he would still be lame. It was when he made the effort to get up on his feet - activating his belief through faith, that the healing happened.

James says that faith without works is dead. He is not talking about using human effort to please God, because that results in self-righteousness. If James approaches a guy in a wheelchair, prays for him for healing, and the guy says, "I believe that I am healed!" James would say, "Why are you still sitting there if you believe you are healed? You say you have faith to be healed? Then let me see your faith by you getting up out of your wheelchair and walking!"

So are you producing faith?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

So are you producing faith?

Yes I am. Every time I pray, read the Bible, go to church, preach, write a Christian teaching book, maintain holy living. This is because I believe that God listens to my prayers, therefore I pray. I believe that God will speak to me through the Bible so I read it. I believe that it is good to fellowship with others, so I go to church to fellowship. So, just believing in my head is not enough; I put action into my believing.

Even the demons believe in Christ, the Bible - even more than we do, but they cannot exercise faith. Exercising faith is the work of the Holy Spirit in us. Without the Holy Spirit, we can't exercise faith.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Yes I am. Every time I pray, read the Bible, go to church, preach, write a Christian teaching book, maintain holy living. This is because I believe that God listens to my prayers, therefore I pray. I believe that God will speak to me through the Bible so I read it. I believe that it is good to fellowship with others, so I go to church to fellowship. So, just believing in my head is not enough; I put action into my believing.

Even the demons believe in Christ, the Bible - even more than we do, but they cannot exercise faith. Exercising faith is the work of the Holy Spirit in us. Without the Holy Spirit, we can't exercise faith.

So you produce faith and Holy Spirit exercises it?

 

[now faith]

If eternal life could be lost is it eternal any more?

Of course, yet that has no relvelence as to the destination.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

So you produce faith and Holy Spirit exercises it?

That may be one way of explaining it.